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Old January 5, 2010, 03:04 PM   #1
RetiredMajor
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I need load advice for 45 ACP pistol and carbine round

I'm looking for load data or load advice to build a 45 ACP round that will function well in both a 1911 pistol and a carbine with a 16.5 inch barrel. I prefer to load one round I can use in both firearms. I realize I may have to give up something and if so, I prefer to give up a little performance from the 1911 pistol. In my perfect world, the round would give me the optimum performance out of the carbine and function "good enough" from the pistol.

I was thinking a 230 gr RN bullet with a slower burning powder.

Your thoughts and advice?

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Old January 5, 2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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Is this a Camp 45?

My Camp 45 spits unburnt powder back at me if I run a slower powder like AA #7 in it. And I get big muzzle flash from my pistols, using #7.

I've got a 16lb recoil spring in it rather than the weak factory one, and I may go to a 21lb spring instead. It's a blowback design and not good at containing longer/slower pressure.

Right now I run it with Titegroup in pistol and carbine formats.
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Old January 5, 2010, 06:57 PM   #3
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azredhawk44.....the carbine is a Beretta CX4 Storm in 45 ACP. It's also a blowback design. So, AA#7 seems like it burns too slow? Ideally, all the powder should burn thus throwing the bullet at max speed.

How does the Titegroup seem to work? Any leftover powder? Does it burn faster?

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Old January 6, 2010, 01:08 AM   #4
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Titegroup works better... but I do still get a little bit of blowback. I think this might have something to do with the granule size.

I'd expect something like Win231 to work best. A very fine powder in low volume that combusts almost immediately, leaving nothing to blow back.

However... I'm sitting on a pound and 3/4 of Titegroup and I intend to use it up. I shoot pistol a LOT more than the carbine.
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Old January 6, 2010, 01:22 AM   #5
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You could try bullseye. Bullseye is my favorite powder for 45 acp in my 1911. Midway has it for 13 dollars a pound if you buy it in bulk.
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Old January 6, 2010, 04:29 AM   #6
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W231 is my 45acp powder of choice. Have been more than happy with it.
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Old January 6, 2010, 06:33 AM   #7
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I've used H Universal & Tightgroup in the 45. Both loads cycled fine in my 3 45s. Tightgroup really goes a long way, with the small charges. I also just bought some 231 to try. My last loadings were with Universal & Rainier 200 grn RN plated bullets.
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Old January 6, 2010, 09:40 AM   #8
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Another vote for W231.

I sweet spot load is 4.5-4.8gr with a 200gr hard cast LSWC.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:39 AM   #9
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I use AA#5 or Unique with 185-230 jacketed bullets both of these powders work very well in my Colt Gov. 1911 and Marlin camp 45.
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Old January 6, 2010, 10:55 AM   #10
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I love Alliants Power Pistol in 45acp in pistol and rifle config.
Their web site is a bit "whacked" on the charge loads but I have found anything from 7.5 grain to 6.5 grain functions well.
If you also shoot 9mm its a great powder there as well.
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Old January 6, 2010, 08:55 PM   #11
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One more vote for Win 231.
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Old January 7, 2010, 05:06 PM   #12
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5.1 grains of bullseye under a 230 grain bullet.
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Old January 7, 2010, 05:39 PM   #13
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So far for me when shooting lead I like Hi Skor 800x. It gives good case fill and burns a bit slower than TiteGroup, or Bull"s Eye. Only down side is it takes a bit more. If you are the economy type that likes to get the most rounds out of a pound of powder you will probably not like it.
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Old January 7, 2010, 10:50 PM   #14
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From what I understand, pistol rounds generally burn their powder quickly, to get the most velocity with the shorter barrel. With a 16" barrel, if you use all your powder in the first 1/2 of the barrel length, you're wasting "tube time"? Right? Following that logic, you'd want a slower powder to get max velocity from the carbine. But by doing so, you'll have a giant fireball and loud report belching from the pistol.
I don't currently reload, but I think about stuff like this all the time.
Feel free to correct me.
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
I don't currently reload, but I think about stuff like this all the time.
Feel free to correct me.
OK,
Quote:
the carbine is a Beretta CX4 Storm in 45 ACP. It's also a blowback design. So, AA#7 seems like it burns too slow?
You have been corrected
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Old January 7, 2010, 11:18 PM   #16
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maybe it's not too slow, maybe it just burns dirty? Does what I said about loads for different barrel lengths make sense though?
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Old January 8, 2010, 12:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
maybe it's not too slow, maybe it just burns dirty? Does what I said about loads for different barrel lengths make sense though?
With a straight blow back semi-auto the barrel length is not relevant, unburnt powder will fowl the action and the barrel. With a locked breech action such as a 1911 type pistol a powder such as AA#7 with a heavy bullet loaded at the upper end of the data will perform ok.
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Old January 8, 2010, 09:36 PM   #18
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Here is my experience:

With a blowback action you are not going to get significant velocity increase with a 230 grain no matter what you do. Loading for a locked breech is very different from loading for a blowback action.

With a blowback action, if you try to use a large charge of slow burning powder under a heavy bullet you are going to get a nice fireball out of the side of the gun as the bolt opens prematurely. It is a zero sum game. The only way to get increased velocity is to either lower bullet weight or increase bolt mass.
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Old January 9, 2010, 02:23 AM   #19
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Somewhere once upon a time I was reading about handloading 9mm for the Hi-Point 995 carbine, which is also blowback. I believe the guy was getting close to 1600fps with a 115 grn. I had assumed his powder charge was the difference.
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Old January 9, 2010, 12:46 PM   #20
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I have a 9mm Beretta Storm and I know that this is different from your caliber but I got the same results as others.
The best accuracy that I got with a cast lead bullets was with Titegroup but it was extremely dirty.
Over all I like W231 the best.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391466
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Old January 9, 2010, 01:26 PM   #21
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My 45 acp handloading manual lists some loads for rifles

Using a Marlin Model 45 with a 16.5 inch barrel, which is a blowback design
You don't loose any velocity going with a longer barrel than a pistol barrel, you gain a small amount actually.
Heres what they say..

Using Sierra Bullets
230gr FMJ Match(#8815) COL 1.270"
230gr JHP (#8805) COL 1.270"

Powder Velocity-> 700 750 800
Unique...................6.2...6.5...6.8
AA- No 5................7.7...8.0...8.2
SR4756..................6.7...7.0...7.3
Blue Dot.................8.5...8.9...9.2


240gr JHC (#8820) COL 1.185"
Powder Velocity-> 700 750 800
Unique...................6.3...6.6...6.8
AA- No 5................7.9...8.2...8.4
SR4756..................6.9...7.2...7.4
Blue Dot.................8.7...9.0...9.3

Using Lyman Bullets

225gr LRN (#2 Alloy) COL 1.272"
Powder.....Start grains...Velocity.........Max Grains.....Velocity
Red Dot.....4.3.................923...............5.3................1061
231...........5.0..................942..............5.8................1051
700X.........4.0..................847..............5.0................1019
AA5..........6.6..................931...............8.2................1207
Unique.......5.5.................916...............7.3................1196
HS-6.........6.2.................770...............8.6................1087
SR-4756....5.5.................803...............7.5.................1188
Blue Dot....7.5.................869...............10.7...............1262


That should get you started!
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