problem with Berry's plated 45acp 185gr hbrn

jim-alex · January 5, 2007, 04:02 PM

I usually load 200gr lswc for my 45 load. My standard load is 3.8/3.9 gr Clays. Recently I decided to try a few different bullets, e.g. 185gr lswc and Berry's 185 plated hbrn. Using the same 3.8/3.9 Clays the 185gr lswc performed well in my 1911's but had feed problems in my Sig. The real surprise was how poorly the
Berry's performed. I seated them them at 1.255 since they have about the same profile as 230gr, just have a hollow base similar the 38 hbwc's. Several searches of "reloading sites" recommended not crimping tightly since they are plated not jacketed. So I crimped to .470 (or about 3/4 turn on Lee FCD)...anyway, there appears to be unburned powder, they won't cycle the 1911's (which have 12-13lb recoil springs), even the sound is more of a poof instead of the normal report. My gut tells me to significantly tighten the crimp but what are some other thoughts?

Regards, Jim

rnovi · January 5, 2007, 09:53 PM

Add more powder.

Powder needs to achieve a certain level of pressure to combust efficiently.

A flat based 185 gr. bullet takes up more case capacity than a hollow based bullet. So, in effect, the hollow base means that (for the same amount of powder) lower pressures are developed.

I'd personally try working from 4.0 to 4.5 and see how that does for you. Five rounds each should be enough of a test.

As an aside, Hodgdon lists 4.9 gr. of clays as max load for a 185 gr. JHP.

HSMITH · January 5, 2007, 10:53 PM

rnovi is right, the charge is way low for a bullet that light seated out that long.

Increase the crimp and watch them lead the bore and tumble, .470" is already a touch on the heavy side. You might want to skip the FCD and crimp them in a normal die, the FCD might be swaging them down enough to cause some problems too.

I would start with 4.5 and 4.8 for the next round of tests. 4.8 should be JUST enough to run a gun with stock springs, so your guns will probably run about right.

shooter chef · January 5, 2007, 10:53 PM

jim, Not sure which sig you hjave, but my revolution had the same problem with SWC's when i first started shooting them, but the feed ramp broke in, and I rarely have the problem. i also seat to make sure I am right above the case lip with the shoulder of the SWC and all seems fine.
My problem is with my Springfield 1911 shoots low on the same charges that my sig shoots great on.

Dave R · January 6, 2007, 12:09 AM

I shoot the same bullet. Had the same problem. Upped the load, now they shoot great. That's the solution. Its not a crimp issue, its a load issue.

ETA, another reason you need to up the load is that the lighter bullets reduce slide action. That may be causing your feed problems.

jim-alex · January 6, 2007, 11:50 AM

Thank you gentlemen.

I will up the powder amount. The answers all made perfect sense:
re the 185 hbrn -- that the hollow base increased case capacity, therefore less pressure and poor combustion (that was my line of thinking when I thought to crimp more which probably would have destroyed the plating), I will load a variety this pm upping the charge and go back to less crimping;

re the 185 lswc and my Sig - it's a 220 with LOTS of rounds through it, does great with 200gr lswc but just not care for the 185gr lswc. I will just stick with 200gr swc for the Sig.

Thanks Again
Jim

January 5, 2007, 04:02 PM	#1
jim-alex Member Join Date: March 14, 2000 Location: tired of NoVa Posts: 83	problem with Berry's plated 45acp 185gr hbrn I usually load 200gr lswc for my 45 load. My standard load is 3.8/3.9 gr Clays. Recently I decided to try a few different bullets, e.g. 185gr lswc and Berry's 185 plated hbrn. Using the same 3.8/3.9 Clays the 185gr lswc performed well in my 1911's but had feed problems in my Sig. The real surprise was how poorly the Berry's performed. I seated them them at 1.255 since they have about the same profile as 230gr, just have a hollow base similar the 38 hbwc's. Several searches of "reloading sites" recommended not crimping tightly since they are plated not jacketed. So I crimped to .470 (or about 3/4 turn on Lee FCD)...anyway, there appears to be unburned powder, they won't cycle the 1911's (which have 12-13lb recoil springs), even the sound is more of a poof instead of the normal report. My gut tells me to significantly tighten the crimp but what are some other thoughts? Regards, Jim

January 5, 2007, 09:53 PM	#2
rnovi Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2005 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 401	Add more powder. Powder needs to achieve a certain level of pressure to combust efficiently. A flat based 185 gr. bullet takes up more case capacity than a hollow based bullet. So, in effect, the hollow base means that (for the same amount of powder) lower pressures are developed. I'd personally try working from 4.0 to 4.5 and see how that does for you. Five rounds each should be enough of a test. As an aside, Hodgdon lists 4.9 gr. of clays as max load for a 185 gr. JHP. __________________ Robert N. "Remember, Eagles may soar but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!"

January 5, 2007, 10:53 PM	#4
shooter chef Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2006 Location: Northeast, Ohio Posts: 106	jim, Not sure which sig you hjave, but my revolution had the same problem with SWC's when i first started shooting them, but the feed ramp broke in, and I rarely have the problem. i also seat to make sure I am right above the case lip with the shoulder of the SWC and all seems fine. My problem is with my Springfield 1911 shoots low on the same charges that my sig shoots great on. __________________ "You're grounded"... My wife

January 6, 2007, 12:09 AM	#5
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	I shoot the same bullet. Had the same problem. Upped the load, now they shoot great. That's the solution. Its not a crimp issue, its a load issue. ETA, another reason you need to up the load is that the lighter bullets reduce slide action. That may be causing your feed problems. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

January 5, 2007, 10:53 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	rnovi is right, the charge is way low for a bullet that light seated out that long. Increase the crimp and watch them lead the bore and tumble, .470" is already a touch on the heavy side. You might want to skip the FCD and crimp them in a normal die, the FCD might be swaging them down enough to cause some problems too. I would start with 4.5 and 4.8 for the next round of tests. 4.8 should be JUST enough to run a gun with stock springs, so your guns will probably run about right.

January 6, 2007, 11:50 AM	#6
jim-alex Member Join Date: March 14, 2000 Location: tired of NoVa Posts: 83	Thank you gentlemen. I will up the powder amount. The answers all made perfect sense: re the 185 hbrn -- that the hollow base increased case capacity, therefore less pressure and poor combustion (that was my line of thinking when I thought to crimp more which probably would have destroyed the plating), I will load a variety this pm upping the charge and go back to less crimping; re the 185 lswc and my Sig - it's a 220 with LOTS of rounds through it, does great with 200gr lswc but just not care for the 185gr lswc. I will just stick with 200gr swc for the Sig. Thanks Again Jim