FMJ SWC

Long Path · September 13, 1999, 10:44 PM

Hey, I got to thinking while reading and responding to the .44 Bullets for Whitetails thread in The Hunt forum; does anyone know of a good, sharp-shouldered SWC .44 or .45 bullet that is FMJ, or nearly so? It could even have a tad bit of lead exposed, like the silouhette bullets. Come to think of it, I once loaded some 180g .357 sillohuette bullets that looked just about right, if only they'd had just a tad bit more shoulder. They had an excellent meplat on the front, with a dot of lead exposed, and I guaren-daggum-tee-you that that thing would NOT expand, but imagine the penetration!

A .44 in the same profile, say about 250 g, would be the berries for hunting, as it would always provide through and through penetration on medium game, and who needs expansion? Just gimme an honest .429 ALL the way through, and I'll do the rest!

Would also be neat for target shooting, as SWC are.

So, who makes it? I can't be the ONLY one to think this is cool, and there is surely nothing new under the sun....

Regards,

L.P.

------------------
Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Dr.Rob · September 14, 1999, 10:54 AM

Longpath,

I'll be darned if i can recall the manufacturer but I had a kick ass 200 gr. fmj/swc match round in .45 acp. with 9 grains of accurate arms #5. That was a screamer of a round and would probably suit your needs. I recall these were plated lead bullets, not swaged.

I was looking for a similar jacketed swc for 44 mag for my vaquero, but haven't seen anything I like just yet. Would like a 240 gr jacketed swc (hollowpoint optional)

One thing I like about gun shows is picking up bullets for reloading.. trying new stuff out etc.

Has anyone seen a 165 gr 45 acp bullet for reloading??

Dr.Rob

JoeHatley · September 14, 1999, 11:17 AM

Hornady makes a 200 grain Truncated Cone Combat bullet in .45 caliber that is almost
a FMJ. It has an exposed base. Not exactly a SWC, but very close, and I've have good luck with it.

Joe

------------------
Go NRA

david_m_curry · September 14, 1999, 07:24 PM

Well, it probably isn't any help, but I just thought that I might mention that Oregon Trail, http://www.laser-cast.com, makes *extremely* hard cast bullets that may be a good compromise.

Cheers,
David Curry

Long Path · September 14, 1999, 07:27 PM

As I recall, Frontier had some excellent .45 ACP 200 g Truncated Cones back when, so I'm glad that Hornady is now bringing them out. Although it's a great combat bullet, it lacks the shoulder I want and "need" for revolver hunting on medium-to-large game.

I remember shooting (back in the '80's, when I was just a kid shooting whatever anyone would give me) some of my dad's 185g Jacketed SWC's in .45 ACP. They'd function really well in his Mk IV and Gold Cup, but some other pistols were hit-or-miss on functioning. Seems to me that they actually functioned better than the same contour/weight lead SWC, given their harder, slicker shoulder. Interesting look, sharp shoulder that was sort or "hollow ground" to a round flat meplat. Match loads, and biscuit-cutter holes.

HOWEVER--

185g .45 ACP bullets are target loads, and are NOT heavy enough for my purposes. I might consider 200 g SWC, but 230 or better is better.

For .44 Mag, I don't know of any, though.

Dr. Rob-- 165 gr?? I assume you mean 185 gr? Shoot, the 185ers are too poofter as it is-- who wants 165ers?

Maybe if I shot Bullseye...

Contender · September 14, 1999, 10:42 PM

Long Path, What would be good is a totally jacketed version of SPEER's half-jacketed semi wadcutter. This would retain the sharp shoulder. I tell ya though,I think I'd stick to my cast bullets for everything. I do any bore cleaning with an old worn out (undersized) bore brush with some strands of Chore Boy or Curly Kate pads wrapped around it. Strips any lead residue out pronto with no solvent or bore damage.

Did you ever use any of the LBT cast bullet designs?

Long Path · September 14, 1999, 10:59 PM

Contender--- I do precisely the same thing with my old worn out wire brushes and carefully disassembled copper Chore Boys to remove leading from my Gold Cup, which shoots 30 LRN's for every FMJ.

But if you're practicing a tad bit with your romp'em stomp'em loads, you'll want to be able to shoot without re-cleaning every cylinder-full. It just seems like this would be a sensible hunting round, and that others might be interested in it. One of the biggest concerns is controlled expansion and penetration. This would well-address both.

For what it's worth, this year's handgun hunting will most certainly be done with Keith-style hard-cast LSWC.

Contender · September 14, 1999, 11:38 PM

There you go. I knew you were a Keith man at heart.

Hey what about those copper coated hard cast semi wadcutters? Has anybody tried them?

Dr.Rob · September 15, 1999, 04:13 PM

YEP I DID mean 165's. federal is loading a 165 gr hydra shock at over 1000fps, and mag safe's defender loads (basicallya ball yound filled with shot and epoxy instead of lead) wieghs only 120 grains.

I just wondered if it might be possible to make some parctice loads that mimiced the new hydar shock load.

As far 185 being LIGHT? Well a 185 gr winchester HP with 9 grains of AA#5 is HOT, as in winchester's 185 silvertip.

For the record though, I load 200 gr. wadcutters with 5 grains of red dot for practice and fun, but If I'm carrying a .45 its probably filled with 230 grain hydra shocks, whether its my 1951 commander lightwieght, my 1991 seecamp conversion or my 1917 colt new service army revolver.

Laser cast makes a REALLY nice hard lead wadcutter, i bought some 240 gr swc's for 44 mag recently... and I'm working up a green dot load for my vaquero (will let you know how it goes)

StaySafe,

Dr.Rob

Long Path · September 15, 1999, 07:45 PM

David's link to Laser Cast didn't work, unfortunately. Bridges Bullets used to make some superb bullets out of pure linotype that was nice'n' hard.

With some experimenting, I'm sure I could get a pretty hard cast bullet. But I'm still looking for that jacketed.

I've always sort of blinked at the Fed P.D. load, and wondered why I'd want to downgrade my .45 to a less-penetrative .40!

In all fairness, it should be a really high energy load that has the advantages of a .40 with the larger hole of a .45, but I want more momentum in my hit, so I shoot the .230 almost exclusively in my .45. Comparitively, the 185 is LIGHT. 165 is FEATHERWEIGHT, and 120 is... is... photon-esque! (C-speed, but no mass!)

But, once I've got my BSB (Big Slow Bullet) blinders on, I can't be made to see reason! Just a caveat

Sooooo, what's the Brinnel Hardness on Laser Cast? Anyone know? Looks like I'm huntin' with Elmer again this year! (Trying to remember why that would be bad, exactly...)

Contender · September 16, 1999, 12:04 AM

I've dropped W-W alloy bullets from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of cool water, removed them, and set them to dry. About a day or so later,I've measured 9-10 on my Saeco tester. Shot through 1/8" steel at 25 yds. with a midrange 44 mag load.(1100 FPS or so) Once you get a good casting rhythm going,the hardness achieved is pretty uniform and faster than oven heat treating.

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September 13, 1999, 10:44 PM	#1
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Hey, I got to thinking while reading and responding to the .44 Bullets for Whitetails thread in The Hunt forum; does anyone know of a good, sharp-shouldered SWC .44 or .45 bullet that is FMJ, or nearly so? It could even have a tad bit of lead exposed, like the silouhette bullets. Come to think of it, I once loaded some 180g .357 sillohuette bullets that looked just about right, if only they'd had just a tad bit more shoulder. They had an excellent meplat on the front, with a dot of lead exposed, and I guaren-daggum-tee-you that that thing would NOT expand, but imagine the penetration! A .44 in the same profile, say about 250 g, would be the berries for hunting, as it would always provide through and through penetration on medium game, and who needs expansion? Just gimme an honest .429 ALL the way through, and I'll do the rest! Would also be neat for target shooting, as SWC are. So, who makes it? I can't be the ONLY one to think this is cool, and there is surely nothing new under the sun.... Regards, L.P. ------------------ Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

September 14, 1999, 10:54 AM	#2
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	Longpath, I'll be darned if i can recall the manufacturer but I had a kick ass 200 gr. fmj/swc match round in .45 acp. with 9 grains of accurate arms #5. That was a screamer of a round and would probably suit your needs. I recall these were plated lead bullets, not swaged. I was looking for a similar jacketed swc for 44 mag for my vaquero, but haven't seen anything I like just yet. Would like a 240 gr jacketed swc (hollowpoint optional) One thing I like about gun shows is picking up bullets for reloading.. trying new stuff out etc. Has anyone seen a 165 gr 45 acp bullet for reloading?? Dr.Rob

September 14, 1999, 11:17 AM	#3
JoeHatley Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 1999 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,135	Hornady makes a 200 grain Truncated Cone Combat bullet in .45 caliber that is almost a FMJ. It has an exposed base. Not exactly a SWC, but very close, and I've have good luck with it. Joe ------------------ Go NRA

September 14, 1999, 07:24 PM	#4
david_m_curry Member Join Date: August 5, 1999 Posts: 55	Well, it probably isn't any help, but I just thought that I might mention that Oregon Trail, http://www.laser-cast.com, makes extremely hard cast bullets that may be a good compromise. Cheers, David Curry

September 14, 1999, 07:27 PM	#5
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	As I recall, Frontier had some excellent .45 ACP 200 g Truncated Cones back when, so I'm glad that Hornady is now bringing them out. Although it's a great combat bullet, it lacks the shoulder I want and "need" for revolver hunting on medium-to-large game. I remember shooting (back in the '80's, when I was just a kid shooting whatever anyone would give me) some of my dad's 185g Jacketed SWC's in .45 ACP. They'd function really well in his Mk IV and Gold Cup, but some other pistols were hit-or-miss on functioning. Seems to me that they actually functioned better than the same contour/weight lead SWC, given their harder, slicker shoulder. Interesting look, sharp shoulder that was sort or "hollow ground" to a round flat meplat. Match loads, and biscuit-cutter holes. HOWEVER-- 185g .45 ACP bullets are target loads, and are NOT heavy enough for my purposes. I might consider 200 g SWC, but 230 or better is better. For .44 Mag, I don't know of any, though. Dr. Rob-- 165 gr?? I assume you mean 185 gr? Shoot, the 185ers are too poofter as it is-- who wants 165ers? Maybe if I shot Bullseye...

September 14, 1999, 10:42 PM	#6
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	Long Path, What would be good is a totally jacketed version of SPEER's half-jacketed semi wadcutter. This would retain the sharp shoulder. I tell ya though,I think I'd stick to my cast bullets for everything. I do any bore cleaning with an old worn out (undersized) bore brush with some strands of Chore Boy or Curly Kate pads wrapped around it. Strips any lead residue out pronto with no solvent or bore damage. Did you ever use any of the LBT cast bullet designs?

September 14, 1999, 10:59 PM	#7
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	Contender--- I do precisely the same thing with my old worn out wire brushes and carefully disassembled copper Chore Boys to remove leading from my Gold Cup, which shoots 30 LRN's for every FMJ. But if you're practicing a tad bit with your romp'em stomp'em loads, you'll want to be able to shoot without re-cleaning every cylinder-full. It just seems like this would be a sensible hunting round, and that others might be interested in it. One of the biggest concerns is controlled expansion and penetration. This would well-address both. For what it's worth, this year's handgun hunting will most certainly be done with Keith-style hard-cast LSWC.

September 14, 1999, 11:38 PM	#8
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	There you go. I knew you were a Keith man at heart. Hey what about those copper coated hard cast semi wadcutters? Has anybody tried them?

September 15, 1999, 04:13 PM	#9
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	YEP I DID mean 165's. federal is loading a 165 gr hydra shock at over 1000fps, and mag safe's defender loads (basicallya ball yound filled with shot and epoxy instead of lead) wieghs only 120 grains. I just wondered if it might be possible to make some parctice loads that mimiced the new hydar shock load. As far 185 being LIGHT? Well a 185 gr winchester HP with 9 grains of AA#5 is HOT, as in winchester's 185 silvertip. For the record though, I load 200 gr. wadcutters with 5 grains of red dot for practice and fun, but If I'm carrying a .45 its probably filled with 230 grain hydra shocks, whether its my 1951 commander lightwieght, my 1991 seecamp conversion or my 1917 colt new service army revolver. Laser cast makes a REALLY nice hard lead wadcutter, i bought some 240 gr swc's for 44 mag recently... and I'm working up a green dot load for my vaquero (will let you know how it goes) StaySafe, Dr.Rob

September 15, 1999, 07:45 PM	#10
Long Path Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 1999 Location: N. Texas Posts: 5,899	David's link to Laser Cast didn't work, unfortunately. Bridges Bullets used to make some superb bullets out of pure linotype that was nice'n' hard. With some experimenting, I'm sure I could get a pretty hard cast bullet. But I'm still looking for that jacketed. I've always sort of blinked at the Fed P.D. load, and wondered why I'd want to downgrade my .45 to a less-penetrative .40! In all fairness, it should be a really high energy load that has the advantages of a .40 with the larger hole of a .45, but I want more momentum in my hit, so I shoot the .230 almost exclusively in my .45. Comparitively, the 185 is LIGHT. 165 is FEATHERWEIGHT, and 120 is... is... photon-esque! (C-speed, but no mass!) But, once I've got my BSB (Big Slow Bullet) blinders on, I can't be made to see reason! Just a caveat Sooooo, what's the Brinnel Hardness on Laser Cast? Anyone know? Looks like I'm huntin' with Elmer again this year! (Trying to remember why that would be bad, exactly...)

September 16, 1999, 12:04 AM	#11
Contender Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1998 Location: NY Posts: 680	I've dropped W-W alloy bullets from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of cool water, removed them, and set them to dry. About a day or so later,I've measured 9-10 on my Saeco tester. Shot through 1/8" steel at 25 yds. with a midrange 44 mag load.(1100 FPS or so) Once you get a good casting rhythm going,the hardness achieved is pretty uniform and faster than oven heat treating.