Casting Just Lead

OLD LOADER · November 30, 2006, 12:04 PM

Awhile Back A Newbie Ask At What Temp. Lead Melts.answer Was Given To Him Was 1000 Deg.
That Couldn't Have Been A Caster,why Was He Let Get Away This ?

Edward429451 · November 30, 2006, 12:15 PM

A lot of casters are casting hotter than in days past so they probably just mentioned what they cast at. I was under the impression for a long time that frosty bullets were to be rejects because they would be brittle and break up. Apparently this is not the case and was a wives tale. I cast hot but not at 1000 deg. about 750 for me and my WW's.

Lead melts at 619 IIRC.

snuffy · November 30, 2006, 01:08 PM

Could be the answer was given to somebody asking about casting pure lead. It HAS to be at a higher temp to get it to flow enough to fill out the mold. The types of bullets made of pure lead are more complicated, like hollow base minnie bullets and slugs.

That said, 1000 degrees is too hot even for pure lead. IIRC lead boils at 1100 degrees, that's when you get in trouble with lead vapors that can be inhaled. Bad ju-ju!

HSMITH · November 30, 2006, 10:01 PM

I cast at about 800 and want lightly frosted bullets. 1000 degrees would have me turning the burner off and backing away from the pot until it fell to 800, no way am I standing over a pot at 1000 degrees as that is WAY too close to dangerous vapor release temps.

I didn't see the post you refer to or I would have commented on the post.

glicerin · December 3, 2006, 08:55 PM

Snuffy: my old university book says boiling point of lead is 1750 degrees Celsius(that's 3182 degrees usa fahrenheit). Very difficult to achieve with electric pot. Propane or acetylene torch on surface might be dangerous. Dust from dirty hot WW clips and slag are a prime source of lead dust in air(beware!). Primer dust in improperly vented indoor ranges have caused lead poisoning. Be safe.

robertbank · December 3, 2006, 09:46 PM

The melting point of lead is as follows:

621.5F or 327.5 C or 600.65K

Boiling point is:

3164 F or 1740 C or 2013.15K

Reference:

www.chemicalelements.com/elements/pb.html

Take Care

Bob

snuffy · December 3, 2006, 10:58 PM

Well I said IIRC, apparently I didn't Remember correctly!

About the max I can get my saeco melter up to is 1050 degrees. It doesn't have a thermostat or at least not a settable dial, it goes full bore all the time. The other bottom pour lee pots go up to 850 deg. I cast wheelweights at around 7-750 depending whether they are 6 cavity or 2. The bigger molds hold heat better, you have to lower temps or you have to wait a long time for the bullets to freeze in the cavity.

OLD LOADER · December 4, 2006, 11:17 AM

Pure lead or WW , Will lead the bore that is why I add 1/2 lb of tin to 5 1/2 lb . WW and 4 lbs lead .Lyman's # 2 bullet casting.

robertbank · December 4, 2006, 11:36 AM

"WW , Will lead the bore" -

Never in my 9MM guns and seldom in my other handguns and never in my rifles (30-06/30-30). Mind you I water quench my bullets to harden them.

Take Care

Bob

Edward429451 · December 4, 2006, 07:59 PM

Sizing also comes into play regarding the leading issue. I used to size to .429 for my 44's but since I went .430 my leading dropped dramatically. I did start quenching also. I'm shooting .460 in my 45/70 Marlin rifle and the leading reduced by at least 80% vs when I shot them sized to .457. (It's what I had for a sizer.)

I've read about guys who claim no leading with pure lead that's sized large. I haven't tried it personally but there's obviously more to reducing leading than just the particular alloy content.

robertbank · December 4, 2006, 09:17 PM

Glad you raised the sizing issue. Here is what I size my handgun bullets to:

9MM - .357
.38spl/.357 Mag - .358
.45acp - .452
.45LC - .452

Any recomendation I have ever read says to size lead bullets at least 1/1000 over bore diameter.

I have had 9MM lead bullets tumble in less than 15 yards when sized to .355. Barrel leading was evident after 50rds.

Take Care

Bob

Ben Shepherd · December 5, 2006, 10:13 AM

As a sidenote for 44 nuts:

If you are finding that lead sized 430 or 431 shoots well in a particular 44, next time you try jacketed stuff, try hornady if you haven't.

Why? Because thier jacketed 44 slugs are sized .430 instead of .429 or .4295 like other makers.

You may just find some hidden accuracy in that gun.

Edward429451 · December 5, 2006, 07:58 PM

Another thing about sizing to consider when working up loads is what size you have vs what size the loadbook guys used. Lyman sizes on the small side and when I use their data, I reduce accordingly.

November 30, 2006, 12:04 PM	#1
OLD LOADER Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: stone mountain ga. Posts: 55	Casting Just Lead Awhile Back A Newbie Ask At What Temp. Lead Melts.answer Was Given To Him Was 1000 Deg. That Couldn't Have Been A Caster,why Was He Let Get Away This ?

November 30, 2006, 01:08 PM	#3
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Pure lead? Could be the answer was given to somebody asking about casting pure lead. It HAS to be at a higher temp to get it to flow enough to fill out the mold. The types of bullets made of pure lead are more complicated, like hollow base minnie bullets and slugs. That said, 1000 degrees is too hot even for pure lead. IIRC lead boils at 1100 degrees, that's when you get in trouble with lead vapors that can be inhaled. Bad ju-ju! __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

December 3, 2006, 08:55 PM	#5
glicerin Member Join Date: October 9, 2006 Location: Northern Ontario Posts: 36	Boiling Point Pb Snuffy: my old university book says boiling point of lead is 1750 degrees Celsius(that's 3182 degrees usa fahrenheit). Very difficult to achieve with electric pot. Propane or acetylene torch on surface might be dangerous. Dust from dirty hot WW clips and slag are a prime source of lead dust in air(beware!). Primer dust in improperly vented indoor ranges have caused lead poisoning. Be safe.

December 3, 2006, 10:58 PM	#7
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Well I said IIRC, apparently I didn't Remember correctly! About the max I can get my saeco melter up to is 1050 degrees. It doesn't have a thermostat or at least not a settable dial, it goes full bore all the time. The other bottom pour lee pots go up to 850 deg. I cast wheelweights at around 7-750 depending whether they are 6 cavity or 2. The bigger molds hold heat better, you have to lower temps or you have to wait a long time for the bullets to freeze in the cavity. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

December 4, 2006, 11:17 AM	#8
OLD LOADER Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: stone mountain ga. Posts: 55	Cast Pure Lead Pure lead or WW , Will lead the bore that is why I add 1/2 lb of tin to 5 1/2 lb . WW and 4 lbs lead .Lyman's # 2 bullet casting.

November 30, 2006, 12:15 PM	#2
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	A lot of casters are casting hotter than in days past so they probably just mentioned what they cast at. I was under the impression for a long time that frosty bullets were to be rejects because they would be brittle and break up. Apparently this is not the case and was a wives tale. I cast hot but not at 1000 deg. about 750 for me and my WW's. Lead melts at 619 IIRC.

November 30, 2006, 10:01 PM	#4
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	I cast at about 800 and want lightly frosted bullets. 1000 degrees would have me turning the burner off and backing away from the pot until it fell to 800, no way am I standing over a pot at 1000 degrees as that is WAY too close to dangerous vapor release temps. I didn't see the post you refer to or I would have commented on the post.

December 3, 2006, 09:46 PM	#6
robertbank Member Join Date: November 8, 2004 Location: Terrace, B.C. Canada Posts: 97	The melting point of lead is as follows: 621.5F or 327.5 C or 600.65K Boiling point is: 3164 F or 1740 C or 2013.15K Reference: www.chemicalelements.com/elements/pb.html Take Care Bob

December 4, 2006, 11:36 AM	#9
robertbank Member Join Date: November 8, 2004 Location: Terrace, B.C. Canada Posts: 97	"WW , Will lead the bore" - Never in my 9MM guns and seldom in my other handguns and never in my rifles (30-06/30-30). Mind you I water quench my bullets to harden them. Take Care Bob

December 4, 2006, 07:59 PM	#10
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Sizing also comes into play regarding the leading issue. I used to size to .429 for my 44's but since I went .430 my leading dropped dramatically. I did start quenching also. I'm shooting .460 in my 45/70 Marlin rifle and the leading reduced by at least 80% vs when I shot them sized to .457. (It's what I had for a sizer.) I've read about guys who claim no leading with pure lead that's sized large. I haven't tried it personally but there's obviously more to reducing leading than just the particular alloy content.

December 4, 2006, 09:17 PM	#11
robertbank Member Join Date: November 8, 2004 Location: Terrace, B.C. Canada Posts: 97	Edward429451 Glad you raised the sizing issue. Here is what I size my handgun bullets to: 9MM - .357 .38spl/.357 Mag - .358 .45acp - .452 .45LC - .452 Any recomendation I have ever read says to size lead bullets at least 1/1000 over bore diameter. I have had 9MM lead bullets tumble in less than 15 yards when sized to .355. Barrel leading was evident after 50rds. Take Care Bob

December 5, 2006, 10:13 AM	#12
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	As a sidenote for 44 nuts: If you are finding that lead sized 430 or 431 shoots well in a particular 44, next time you try jacketed stuff, try hornady if you haven't. Why? Because thier jacketed 44 slugs are sized .430 instead of .429 or .4295 like other makers. You may just find some hidden accuracy in that gun. __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

December 5, 2006, 07:58 PM	#13
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Another thing about sizing to consider when working up loads is what size you have vs what size the loadbook guys used. Lyman sizes on the small side and when I use their data, I reduce accordingly.