First rifle ... what's the best all around caliber

[billindenver]

Depends on the gun as well. Although it was heavier my mossberg 4x4 sure seemed to beat me up more than the tikka T3. Both have limbsaver pads on them. Maybe the synthetic stock of the Tikka gives more than the laminated stock of the mossberg, but I can shoot the tikka all day long in 30-06 without discomfort.

[fisherman66]

The bigger the person the less felt recoil.

What does my weight have to do with how hard my rifles kick? Actually a heavier person will "rock" back with the recoil less, so the inverse is more likely to be true. You have the rifle weight issue correct, since the added weight slows the recoil over a longer period of time.

[billindenver]

Perhaps it is just my twisted way of thinking, but I'll bet my 105 lb girl would have a harsher felt recoil than I would. Less mass for the recoil to move would mean the recoil pushes further and likely hurts more. I think that is what the other poster was getting at.

Bill

[fisherman66]

Bill, is it more comfortable to shoot hunched over a bench, where you soak up the recoil; or standing where you roll with the punch?

[K80Geoff]

The Sauer 200 is a good choice. I have a Sauer 202 which is an updated version of the 200. If you can find either a 200 or 202 within your budget go for it. Check out the prices on new 202's in the Blue Book!

The 202 has the best trigger you will ever find in an out of the box rifle. An ergonomic and quiet and positive safety system. Beautiful bluing, nice wood and a smoothe bolt.

The rifle also allows changing calibers within a range of calibers based on the 30-06 and can use 308 with the proper barrel and a different mag.

It comes with a 3 round mag but 5 rounders are available but hard to find.

The 200 is compatible with barrels from the 202.

Downsides are a somewhat fragile forend, and pricey extra barrels you need to get directly from Sig Sauer. It also requires special mounts for the scope and does not come with iron sights but is tapped for irons.

If you can find a used 200/202 with the Burris mounts already installed


And the gun is accurate.

And is is made byJ P Sauer & Sohn. They don't make junk

[wakerider017]

What does my weight have to do with how hard my rifles kick? Actually a heavier person will "rock" back with the recoil less, so the inverse is more likely to be true. You have the rifle weight issue correct, since the added weight slows the recoil over a longer period of time.

Fisherman, If you agree a heavier rifle will have less felt recoil, then you must also agree a heavier person will have less felt recoil.

Think about it. When the rifle is pressed tight against your shoulder, you are your rifle become one object.

Just think what the recoil would feel like if you held it 2 inches of your shoulder.


There is no point in arguing this, it is a fact. You can search online if you do no believe me. Look for a physics website.

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. The propellants energy forward (bullet, extra powder, etc), is transfered equally backward.

When shooting a 30-06 the forward moving object is a 150grn bullet, with the rifle shouldered I have about a 180lb object moving backward.

Ex.

Hit a golfball with a baseball bat and it is going to go flying! Hit a bowling ball with the same force as before and it is not going to move much at all.

[fisherman66]

There is no point in arguing this, it is a fact.

I have no desire to argue anything on a message board. I really view it as a conversation on perspectives.

How can you debate that anything in perceived recoil is fact? The word "perceived" indicates it's subjective.

Hit a golfball with a baseball bat and it is going to go flying! Hit a bowling ball with the same force as before and it is not going to move much at all.

If the 250lb guy is soaking up the recoil where the 150lb guy is rocking with the recoil the impulse (time over which energy is distributed) is going to be different.

Perhaps this conversation would be better served on a separate topic thread that is dedicated to recoil. If you are interested I will see ya there as time allows.

[22-rimfire]

Choice of a centerfire rifle depends on what you want to hunt with it. If you want a combination varmint and whitetail gun, I'd look at a 243. If you want something just a tad more potent as whitetails will be the primary game animal hunting, then I'd look at rifles made in 270, 308 or 30-06. If you are located in the Western US where long shots will be the more common shot expected, I'd look at a 7mm or 300 Win Mag. Both hurt a bit more than the previous ones mentioned when you shoot it.

If Elk and whitetail is your game, then I'd look at the 7mm or 300 win mag as top choices.

My first hunting rifle was a 243 which I used for both varmints and whitetails. I would have used it for black bear if I had hunted them at that time, but it is a bit light for them and it was all I had. The 243 is a great caliber with modest recoil which sufficient punch for many game animals under 300 lbs. You can really smoke varmints with the 243 out to 500 yds!

I later purchased a Remington Model 700 BDL in 270 win. It was too big for varmints unless you hand load, but it is a great whitetail caliber. The Remington is the one I'd recommend in whatever caliber you choose. It is a great first rifle.

I also support buying a 22 as a first rifle and getting the centerfire second or at the same time.

[wakerider017]

Fisherman,

Perceived recoil is really besides the point. Some people will say a shot hurts, while others say they don't mind.
There is no way to measure this. (There is no pain, or comfort scale)


But the amount of recoil is a definite number. So, this is how we measure.


You are absolutely right about about time over which energy is distributed!
That is why we measure in Joules.

[FirstFreedom]

Start a new thread, because it's a good topic, but I think fisherman is mostly right (seems counterintuitive, but I'll explain my physics reasoning in the new thread).

[MeekAndMild]

Perceived recoil is really besides the point.

Not really as perception is all we have to tell us what is happening in the world. Equations are beside the point when your shoulder tells you that a 10 pound steel butted Garand kicks more than a 7.5 pound Savage with a half inch of foam padding.

For some reason when these "discussions" break out around here there is often little mention of the various angles and curves in a stock which will make one rifle kick more severely than another. You can have two otherwise identical rifles, one with a straight stock with rounded cheekpiece and the other with a longer rise, narrower butt and sharper cheekpiece. The former will be tame but the latter will kick like a mule.

Point being, to look for a rifle with a nice soft wide butt, gentle curves and a nice rounded place to lay your cheek. No pun intended.

[wakerider017]

Not really as perception is all we have to tell us what is happening in the world. Equations are beside the point when your shoulder tells you that a 10 pound steel butted Garand kicks more than a 7.5 pound Savage with a half inch of foam padding.

For some reason when these "discussions" break out around here there is often little mention of the various angles and curves in a stock which will make one rifle kick more severely than another. You can have two otherwise identical rifles, one with a straight stock with rounded cheekpiece and the other with a longer rise, narrower butt and sharper cheekpiece. The former will be tame but the latter will kick like a mule.

Point being, to look for a rifle with a nice soft wide butt, gentle curves and a nice rounded place to lay your cheek. No pun intended.

Kinda took that out of context, as there were a series of posts I made. The post you quoted was me just trying to explain a scientific theory.

I do realize that normal people do not measure recoil in Joules. I measure in light, medium, heavy and OUCH! Hahaha.


I was originally replying to Fisherman's posts that said "A person's tolerance level to recoil is unrelated to their stature or weight." Which is simply not true.

Things have really gone off on a tangent.

[retrieverman]

As far as caliber, I would go with something in the 270, 308, or 30-06 neighborhood, and with a $1500 budget, I would go with a Sauer 200 and Zeiss Conquest scope. This is just an example.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=87670177

[Art Eatman]

Thrash out your ideas about recoil in a different thread, okay?

[Wapiti]

I started two sons and now starting a son-n-law with T/C's Encore chambered in .30-06. The .30-06 is a very good all around cartridge and can be used on varmits up through Elk, maybe Moose. And as time goes bye, you can get a muzzle loader barrel for it as well as many different barrel chamberings.
I have a "pre" Winchester 70, a Mauser FN, a No1, and a scout that hasn't been out of the gun rack since I got my Encore.

[garryc]

Remington 700 SPS 30-06, $478(also check at wally world)

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/97363

Sightron 2.5-10x32 SII Riflescope, $260

http://www.swfa.com/pc-10601-1514-si...iflescope.aspx

Leupold 1-Piece Standard Scope Base Remington 700 Long Action Matte, $19

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...888&t=11082005

Leupold 1" Standard Rings Matte Medium, $23

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...359&t=11082005

Total $780

You have enough left to get a reloading kit and to change the stock if you want.

[PetreTG]

Well ... once again I want to thank everyone for the kind and informative advice ...

I don't know how it happened but ....

I bought a:

Bushmaster AR15 .223/.556 caliber A3 with a Bushnell Holoscope (Yes I was drawn to the darkside but it's so cool!)

Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic .30-06 with a Nikon Monarch UCC 4-12x40 AO scope

and

Browning Buckmark Sporter .22lr with fiber optic sights



I'm also struggling with getting a Ruger 10/22 w/Bull Barrel

I think I've gone insane which makes all my purchases illegal !

Comments appreciated ...

PS ... I'm not gonna tell what the stuff cost because I think it's not allowed here , suffice to say my local Sportmans Warehouse sadly , was closing thanks to Cabela's opening nearby and all already discounted guns, were an additional 10% off ... WHOO HOO !!! ... but sadly ... Sportsman's was closing ...

The Bushmaster in particular was an INCREDIBLE deal from what I could tell comparing prices on line!

[jbrown]

i was going to say buy a encore and a few barrels to go with.30-06 for big game,12 guage for bird ,223 for fun and a 22 rimfire(and a 17 hmr,and a 45-70 and a 22-250 and......

[Buzzcook]

Looks like you got a bunch of good stuff.

Remember to take a hunting safety course.

[snevensmores]

That's a heck of a collection that you just started. The Ruger 10/22 is a great rifle and would be an asset to your collection. It's amazingly customizable. However, if you're not so interested in "fixing something that ain't broke," I'd recommend that you look at Savage's line of .22s. With all the money you've already spent, you might wanna save a few bucks .

I got a Savage Mark II bolt action for Christmas and I absolutely love it. I had originally thought about a 10/22, but now I honestly have no interest in one unless I have some extra money lying around.

[shark1]

Im afraid I would not want to be outdoors with 3 miles of an inexperienced shooter with a 30.06 as a first rifle hunting big game.

You wouldnt buy a GSX1100 as a learner bike, nor a Ferrari or F16 jet to learn with.

Should really stick with a rimfire to begin with Im afraid.

[PetreTG]

Shark1 .. I can appreciate your concern here , but I'm not an inexperienced shooter. Yes I have not hunted with rifles before , but I know all the rules of the road so to speak. I'm not going to just wildly go out blowing off rounds out of the 30-06 with no idea of target.

I actually plan first on getting very proficient at shooting the 30-06 at the range. And would not waste my time hunting until I can shoot near sub MOA.

Again I appreciate the concern , but I'm smart enough to not shoot anything I'm not aiming at.

You want to be concerned ... I'd be more concerned about going out hunting with or around hunters that are drinking.

[PetreTG]

For those that gave all the great suggestions ... once again THANK YOU.

I made one change though ... originally I'd purchased a Weatherby that had to be ordered , but that didn't work out and I switched that one to a Remington 700 CDL SF (Stainless Fluted Barrel)

I think it will be on par with the Weatherby .

[Rifleman 173]

Starting rifle? Medium caliber for taking down deer, hogs and such? Used for personal protection only in an emergency? Hmmm.

Bolt action I would suggest a 6.5 Swedish Mauser rifle. Not much kick at all. Good bullet for deer and hogs. Very accurate.

For a semi-auto loader I would suggest an M-1a, a 6.5 Grendel AR type rifle or an AR-10(t) of some sort with a scope. All 3 of three of these rifles are based off of tried and true shooting experiences or very new technology.

Another option would be to go with an SKS carbine and stripper clips for re-loading. Or you could go with an AK type rifle for survival needs with hunting as a secondary use. The 7.62 X 39 bullet will drop deers and wild hogs with no problems along with bad guys too.

With just about any rifle I would suggest that you consider getting glass (red dot or scopes) of some sort for the rifle or carbine that you choose to use.

[Buzzcook]

Once again good choices. The Remington is a choice no one will argue with.

Now the ball is in your court. Practice practice practice and take as many firearm classes as you can handle.