The best AR15 platform rifle?

reginhild · January 27, 2007, 01:20 AM

I think the recent development of the 6.5 Grendel is the best all around cartridge for the AR15 platform. Other favorites are the new big bores made for the AR15 such as the .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, and .45 Bushmaster.

What is your opinion on the best alternative to 5.56 in the AR15 platform?

Some research links if you don't know much about other calibers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Beowulf
http://www.ar15.com
http://www.65grendel.com/forum

Here is my 6.5 Grendel (also shown on wikipedia):

Buckythebrewer · January 27, 2007, 07:44 AM

I love my 223,but I would love to have a precision long range 6.5 grendel

Have you shot that one at longer ranges???

I also wouldn't mind having a BIG 50 beowulf

for hunting deer/bear/and maybe moose in MAINE

reginhild · January 27, 2007, 09:48 AM

So far I've shot it only out to 200 meters where I've gotten 1" groups with AA factory 120gr Nosler ammo...that's 1/2 MOA which is impressive.

My trigger is standard and I think I could get smaller groups and plan to swap it out sometime in the future.

FirstFreedom · January 27, 2007, 09:57 AM

The 6.5 grendel is definitely an interesting contender for "just one rifle". Since I have many, I'll probably pass - not sure yet. It's definitely a better hunting round than 5.56x45mm obviously, and with head shots, could be used for moose or even larger game. The .50 beowulf with a 1x ESD is majorly cool as a dangerous running feral hog brush gun. Having said that, I'm gonna run with the .50 beowulf's big brother - the .500 phantom.

The others - meh.

Beee-yoot of a rifle you got there.

Buckythebrewer · January 27, 2007, 10:55 AM

Excellent shooting

.I bet it will shine at longer ranges as well with that shooting

If you want more accuracy, a Nice 2 stage trigger could make the difference.
I believe it makes the difference in my rifle.JP single ,but it works great.
I would handload that BABY!

reginhild · January 27, 2007, 07:30 PM

All the info I have seen of others shooting the 6.5 Grendel have been less than 1 MOA, even out to 800 meters. Havn't seen anyone post anything about shooting longer than that.

One of the developers, Arne Brennan, shot a 1.198" group at 660 yards shooting handloaded 108gr Scenar bullets in the 6.5 Grendel.
Now that is IMPRESSIVE!

buckster · January 27, 2007, 08:28 PM

I too, am seriously looking to get a 6.5 Grendel upper from Alexander Arms for 859.00. The ballistics are fantastic and with a B/C of .547, wow. Over on the 6.5 Grendel.com site some body took out a milk jug at 800 yds. Gotta have one. 50% less recoil than a .308 with less drift and drop. The AR just got more accurate.

Desert Heat · January 27, 2007, 08:36 PM

6.5 is the way to go. Although, I shot a .458 Socom at the range the other day and it was sweet. Very nice rifle all around made it just that much better and toped off with an EO Tech. You could take down a grizzly with one, enough said.

grey_pilgrim · January 28, 2007, 12:48 AM

I guess i'll be interested to see which rounds stick around in a serious way for the next 20 years. Not as much "which ones will fade into nonexistance", but "which ones will I be able to walk into a gun shop and buy". Until then, as someone who doesn't have the coin to spring for lots of firearms, i'm leary of buying something that might be extremely proprietary in 10 years. Well kept firearms can last lifetimes (hopefully even mattel ones

)

Still, the paper specs on the grendel are impressive. . . if I had the coin i think i'd choose it for my AR. . . it would truly be an "only rifle" for paper and deer out to as long as i'll be shooting here.

I was *this* close to springing for a beowulf for my "only ar". . . loaded with those 500 grn powerbelts, it'd be a smasher, but decided that the ammunition was still too proprietary, and i needed a rifle that would meet other needs.

As a question, reinheld, why does your rifle not have a dustcover? Is it just that it doesn't really make a difference for bench or light hunting conditions, or is it durable enough that its not necessary. Sweet rifle.

ltdave · January 28, 2007, 09:55 AM

.

where did you get that butt stock?

david

Anon · January 28, 2007, 11:24 AM

ltdave, It's a Magpul stock:

http://216.243.198.184/aspx/ns/store...ON+RIFLE+STOCK

Lycanthrope · January 28, 2007, 11:38 AM

I'm impressed by the .243 WSSM. Lots of good bullets in 6mm.

55gr bullets at 4100fps.......that should stretch fragmentation distance a bit.

reginhild · January 28, 2007, 07:54 PM

Lycanthrope, with velocities that high you burn through barrels fast. The Grendel shoots higher BC bullets and retains velocity well out to long range. You would be surprised how fast the velocity drops on that 55gr .243 due to a poor BC and high velocity. (the higher velocity the faster the loss of velocity)

My rifle has a side charging handle, hence no dustcover...no different from any bolt action rifle, pistol, semi-auto shotgun, semi-auto non-AR rifle. Only ARs seem to have the dust covers as the design was originally for the military to use while crawling through dirt.

Magpul has some great stocks.

rgitzlaff · January 28, 2007, 09:39 PM

I recently bought a barrel kit from CSS for 6.5 Grendel for my Match AR. I got a 22" bull barrel non-threaded. I've put about 100 rounds through it using Varget and 120 gr SMK. Around 1 MOA at 200 yards, not too impressive at 600. I know I can do much better when I spend some time developing my load, and I think some 107 gr SMK might be the ticket there. I am definetely psyched about this weapon though. Kicks the pants off the .223 in my opinion.

Buckythebrewer · January 29, 2007, 02:13 PM

My 223 is near 1/2 M.O.A.(under M.O.A. being the norm so far) at 600 yards

.Your not kicking the pants off from that yet

.
I did say YET

hags · January 29, 2007, 03:19 PM

WOA is working on a 6mm cartridge that is supposed to be super accurate. It's based on the 6.8SPC case.
I hear his guns chambered in 6mm WOA have won some matches too.
Not too sure where the project stands as of right now.
Contact John at
www.whiteoakarmament.com

reginhild · January 29, 2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

My 223 is near 1/2 M.O.A.(under M.O.A. being the norm so far) at 600 yards .Your not kicking the pants off from that yet .
I did say YET

I personally havn't shot out to 600 yards yet...but, Arne B shot 1.19" at 660 yards with his 6.5 Grendel. That's around 1/5 MOA!!!

Buckythebrewer · January 29, 2007, 07:55 PM

But thats not you

YET

FS2K · January 30, 2007, 04:37 AM

After all of the recent testing by the military on alternate rounds to possibly replace the aging 5.56mm X 45mm round, I was surprised that the 6.8 SPC seems to have won on the popularity contest between it and the 6.5 Grendel.
I suppose it's because of the 6.8's slight advatages at CQB ranges.
I still wonder if the 6.5 will stand the test of time however. The 6.8 SPC seems to have taken off and there are several manefacturers producing both weapons and ammunition for that caliber on a regular basis. When the 10mm first came out everyone seemed to jump on that boat, but after the introduction of the .40 SW you hardly hear anything about it.

Even if it is more popular than the 6.5 Grendel, even the 6.8 SPC is at rish of fading out. (like the .41 Magnum too,)

hodaka · January 30, 2007, 07:47 AM

There is suddenly a lot of hype about the Grendel but it seems to me that for about the same price as a Grendel upper, one could have an entire DPMS Panther in .260 Remington. Several notches above ballistically, although a bit heavier. In any case, think a .223 with a 77 gr SMK is not that far below a Grendel to be worth the extra expense. At least out to 400yds or so. Most of us never shoot any farther. I think is the barrel and bolt could be purchased in the $300 range (like the 6.8's) it might interest me to put one together, but not for an $800+ upper.

reginhild · January 30, 2007, 09:09 AM

FS2K, The 6.8 SPC was developed as a project started by some 5th SFG guys (sideline work) but it has not been adopted or tested by the military (other than a personal operator choice)....similar with the 6.5 Grendel, it has not been adopted or tested by the military (other than by the Air Force and Army marksmanship teams and personal operator choice).

The Army is not looking for a new caliber rifle. They had an option for submissions of other calibers (manufacturers choice) at the start of the SCAR program but changed the requirement to only 5.56 and 7.62 submission early on.

In the media, the 6.8 SPC has a lead in time of introduction and money spent advertising by big name Remington. The 6.5 Grendel adds a few manufacturers each year - slower but steady growth due to its greater capability and word of mouth advertising.

Grendel is a AR15 platform lighter low recoil rifle compared to an AR10 alternate cartridge rifle. .260 Remington vs. Grendel comparison is like comparing 30-06 to .300 Win Mag (although you still couldn't put either of these in an AR15).

hodaka, Lowest cost 6.5 Grendel Upper I have seen is the 16" Tactical at $480...and you can get bolt/barrel combos also.

At 100 yards you may not say a couple hundred ft.lbs more energy is not worth the expense compared to a 77gr SMK .223 but you still can't hunt deer with that .223 in most states...and that changes to DOUBLE the energy of the .223 after it travels a bit further (check the graph comparison at Wikipedia)....and less wind drift, and less drop, and capable of competing in the Major Power Factory category....

If you want to do cheap plinking only, no hunting, don't want to improve 600 yard capability, or do not want the additional points in matches given my Major PF, yes, then the 6.5 Grendel is not worth getting over a .223.

FirstFreedom · January 30, 2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

I'm impressed by the .243 WSSM. Lots of good bullets in 6mm.

Yes, but I'm more impressed with the .25 WSSM - near .25-06 ballistics in an AR15 semi-auto. Problem is low magazine capacity and expensive mags.

AZGunLover · January 31, 2007, 02:12 AM

The best AR15 platform rifle?....Who is paying for the ammo? If it's me than I would have to say .223

reginhild · February 1, 2007, 07:29 PM

AZgunlover, you should get a .22 instead.

For reasonable ammo in an alternate cartridge, the Wolf Gold 6.5mm Grendel ammo has started arriving at retailers. Alexander Arms stated they received 180,000 rounds of the Wolf Gold today.

January 27, 2007, 01:20 AM	#1
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	The best AR15 platform rifle? I think the recent development of the 6.5 Grendel is the best all around cartridge for the AR15 platform. Other favorites are the new big bores made for the AR15 such as the .50 Beowulf, .458 SOCOM, and .45 Bushmaster. What is your opinion on the best alternative to 5.56 in the AR15 platform? Some research links if you don't know much about other calibers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5_Grendel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50_Beowulf http://www.ar15.com http://www.65grendel.com/forum Here is my 6.5 Grendel (also shown on wikipedia):

January 27, 2007, 07:44 AM	#2
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	I love my 223,but I would love to have a precision long range 6.5 grendel Have you shot that one at longer ranges??? I also wouldn't mind having a BIG 50 beowulffor hunting deer/bear/and maybe moose in MAINE

January 27, 2007, 10:55 AM	#5
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	Excellent shooting.I bet it will shine at longer ranges as well with that shooting If you want more accuracy, a Nice 2 stage trigger could make the difference. I believe it makes the difference in my rifle.JP single ,but it works great. I would handload that BABY!

January 27, 2007, 08:28 PM	#7
buckster Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2006 Posts: 674	Grendel I too, am seriously looking to get a 6.5 Grendel upper from Alexander Arms for 859.00. The ballistics are fantastic and with a B/C of .547, wow. Over on the 6.5 Grendel.com site some body took out a milk jug at 800 yds. Gotta have one. 50% less recoil than a .308 with less drift and drop. The AR just got more accurate.

January 27, 2007, 08:36 PM	#8
Desert Heat Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2006 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 341	6.5 is the way to go. Although, I shot a .458 Socom at the range the other day and it was sweet. Very nice rifle all around made it just that much better and toped off with an EO Tech. You could take down a grizzly with one, enough said. __________________ Zombie Defense Squad

January 27, 2007, 09:48 AM	#3
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	So far I've shot it only out to 200 meters where I've gotten 1" groups with AA factory 120gr Nosler ammo...that's 1/2 MOA which is impressive. My trigger is standard and I think I could get smaller groups and plan to swap it out sometime in the future.

January 27, 2007, 09:57 AM	#4
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	The 6.5 grendel is definitely an interesting contender for "just one rifle". Since I have many, I'll probably pass - not sure yet. It's definitely a better hunting round than 5.56x45mm obviously, and with head shots, could be used for moose or even larger game. The .50 beowulf with a 1x ESD is majorly cool as a dangerous running feral hog brush gun. Having said that, I'm gonna run with the .50 beowulf's big brother - the .500 phantom. The others - meh. Beee-yoot of a rifle you got there.

January 27, 2007, 07:30 PM	#6
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	All the info I have seen of others shooting the 6.5 Grendel have been less than 1 MOA, even out to 800 meters. Havn't seen anyone post anything about shooting longer than that. One of the developers, Arne Brennan, shot a 1.198" group at 660 yards shooting handloaded 108gr Scenar bullets in the 6.5 Grendel. Now that is IMPRESSIVE!

January 28, 2007, 12:48 AM	#9
grey_pilgrim Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2004 Location: mid-atlantic Posts: 352	I guess i'll be interested to see which rounds stick around in a serious way for the next 20 years. Not as much "which ones will fade into nonexistance", but "which ones will I be able to walk into a gun shop and buy". Until then, as someone who doesn't have the coin to spring for lots of firearms, i'm leary of buying something that might be extremely proprietary in 10 years. Well kept firearms can last lifetimes (hopefully even mattel ones ) Still, the paper specs on the grendel are impressive. . . if I had the coin i think i'd choose it for my AR. . . it would truly be an "only rifle" for paper and deer out to as long as i'll be shooting here. I was this close to springing for a beowulf for my "only ar". . . loaded with those 500 grn powerbelts, it'd be a smasher, but decided that the ammunition was still too proprietary, and i needed a rifle that would meet other needs. As a question, reinheld, why does your rifle not have a dustcover? Is it just that it doesn't really make a difference for bench or light hunting conditions, or is it durable enough that its not necessary. Sweet rifle. __________________ Cheers, Dave

January 28, 2007, 09:55 AM	#10
ltdave Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2005 Posts: 226	. where did you get that butt stock? david

January 28, 2007, 11:24 AM	#11
Anon Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2006 Posts: 209	ltdave, It's a Magpul stock: http://216.243.198.184/aspx/ns/store...ON+RIFLE+STOCK

January 28, 2007, 11:38 AM	#12
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	I'm impressed by the .243 WSSM. Lots of good bullets in 6mm. 55gr bullets at 4100fps.......that should stretch fragmentation distance a bit.

January 28, 2007, 07:54 PM	#13
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	Lycanthrope, with velocities that high you burn through barrels fast. The Grendel shoots higher BC bullets and retains velocity well out to long range. You would be surprised how fast the velocity drops on that 55gr .243 due to a poor BC and high velocity. (the higher velocity the faster the loss of velocity) My rifle has a side charging handle, hence no dustcover...no different from any bolt action rifle, pistol, semi-auto shotgun, semi-auto non-AR rifle. Only ARs seem to have the dust covers as the design was originally for the military to use while crawling through dirt. Magpul has some great stocks.

January 28, 2007, 09:39 PM	#14
rgitzlaff Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2006 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 524	I recently bought a barrel kit from CSS for 6.5 Grendel for my Match AR. I got a 22" bull barrel non-threaded. I've put about 100 rounds through it using Varget and 120 gr SMK. Around 1 MOA at 200 yards, not too impressive at 600. I know I can do much better when I spend some time developing my load, and I think some 107 gr SMK might be the ticket there. I am definetely psyched about this weapon though. Kicks the pants off the .223 in my opinion.

January 29, 2007, 02:13 PM	#15
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	My 223 is near 1/2 M.O.A.(under M.O.A. being the norm so far) at 600 yards .Your not kicking the pants off from that yet . I did say YET

January 29, 2007, 03:19 PM	#16
hags Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 2005 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 151	WOA is working on a 6mm cartridge that is supposed to be super accurate. It's based on the 6.8SPC case. I hear his guns chambered in 6mm WOA have won some matches too. Not too sure where the project stands as of right now. Contact John at www.whiteoakarmament.com __________________ Northern Illinois Firearms Sales, Trades, Transfers. [email protected]

January 29, 2007, 07:55 PM	#18
Buckythebrewer Junior member Join Date: April 15, 2006 Location: Jefferson, ME Posts: 700	But thats not you YET

January 30, 2007, 04:37 AM	#19
FS2K Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2006 Posts: 1,853	The 6.5 Grendel is truly impressive. After all of the recent testing by the military on alternate rounds to possibly replace the aging 5.56mm X 45mm round, I was surprised that the 6.8 SPC seems to have won on the popularity contest between it and the 6.5 Grendel. I suppose it's because of the 6.8's slight advatages at CQB ranges. I still wonder if the 6.5 will stand the test of time however. The 6.8 SPC seems to have taken off and there are several manefacturers producing both weapons and ammunition for that caliber on a regular basis. When the 10mm first came out everyone seemed to jump on that boat, but after the introduction of the .40 SW you hardly hear anything about it. Even if it is more popular than the 6.5 Grendel, even the 6.8 SPC is at rish of fading out. (like the .41 Magnum too,) __________________ Just a big fan of guns.

January 30, 2007, 07:47 AM	#20
hodaka Senior Member Join Date: April 23, 2006 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,010	There is suddenly a lot of hype about the Grendel but it seems to me that for about the same price as a Grendel upper, one could have an entire DPMS Panther in .260 Remington. Several notches above ballistically, although a bit heavier. In any case, think a .223 with a 77 gr SMK is not that far below a Grendel to be worth the extra expense. At least out to 400yds or so. Most of us never shoot any farther. I think is the barrel and bolt could be purchased in the $300 range (like the 6.8's) it might interest me to put one together, but not for an $800+ upper.

January 30, 2007, 09:09 AM	#21
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	FS2K, The 6.8 SPC was developed as a project started by some 5th SFG guys (sideline work) but it has not been adopted or tested by the military (other than a personal operator choice)....similar with the 6.5 Grendel, it has not been adopted or tested by the military (other than by the Air Force and Army marksmanship teams and personal operator choice). The Army is not looking for a new caliber rifle. They had an option for submissions of other calibers (manufacturers choice) at the start of the SCAR program but changed the requirement to only 5.56 and 7.62 submission early on. In the media, the 6.8 SPC has a lead in time of introduction and money spent advertising by big name Remington. The 6.5 Grendel adds a few manufacturers each year - slower but steady growth due to its greater capability and word of mouth advertising. Grendel is a AR15 platform lighter low recoil rifle compared to an AR10 alternate cartridge rifle. .260 Remington vs. Grendel comparison is like comparing 30-06 to .300 Win Mag (although you still couldn't put either of these in an AR15). hodaka, Lowest cost 6.5 Grendel Upper I have seen is the 16" Tactical at $480...and you can get bolt/barrel combos also. At 100 yards you may not say a couple hundred ft.lbs more energy is not worth the expense compared to a 77gr SMK .223 but you still can't hunt deer with that .223 in most states...and that changes to DOUBLE the energy of the .223 after it travels a bit further (check the graph comparison at Wikipedia)....and less wind drift, and less drop, and capable of competing in the Major Power Factory category.... If you want to do cheap plinking only, no hunting, don't want to improve 600 yard capability, or do not want the additional points in matches given my Major PF, yes, then the 6.5 Grendel is not worth getting over a .223.

January 31, 2007, 02:12 AM	#23
AZGunLover Senior Member Join Date: August 17, 2006 Location: AZ Posts: 281	The best AR15 platform rifle?....Who is paying for the ammo? If it's me than I would have to say .223

February 1, 2007, 07:29 PM	#24
reginhild Member Join Date: January 27, 2007 Posts: 36	AZgunlover, you should get a .22 instead. For reasonable ammo in an alternate cartridge, the Wolf Gold 6.5mm Grendel ammo has started arriving at retailers. Alexander Arms stated they received 180,000 rounds of the Wolf Gold today.