The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 18, 2014, 05:28 PM   #1
Emerson Biggies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2014
Posts: 163
32 acp loading

I load about 10 different calibers. With my new 32acp I am faced with a problem that I encountered at one time loading 25acp.
My scale is not too accurate weighing the minute amounts required for this load.

With the 25acp I wound up moving the scale out of the way and fabricating a powder scoop out of a 22 LR casing soldered to a wire. Slightly more than one scoop with this was a good working load. Then I stopped loading 25 acp for life.

The 32 acp that I recently acquired just put me in the same spot again. 2.2 grains of red dot with a 71 grain bullet was the recipe. My scale showed 2.2 grains and it filled the 32acp casing! Ugh-oh something is wrong? Cleaned the scale and re leveled it. Now 2.2 grains of red dot comes about 1/8" below the mouth of the casing. I'm assuming my scale setup was in error the first time.
Does anyone else load this round and would it be normal to have a compressed load? How accurate does one have to be with these little rounds?
Emerson Biggies is offline  
Old November 18, 2014, 08:03 PM   #2
Sure Shot Mc Gee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,876
Many years ago I reloaded 32 ACP for my 1903 Colt. I never used a scale to measure its charges. I preferred this for the purpose: (link)

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/545...ProductFinding

Quote:
Does anyone else load this round and would it be normal to have a compressed load?

As far as my books say._ 2.5 Red Dot load isn't a compressed loading


Quote:
How accurate does one have to be with these little rounds?

As far as I'm concerned. I think that little 32 ACP is much overlooked. I actually think its a better cartridge than the 38 Special is for personal defense. I know its a bold statement to make. But its my personal experience with the little ACP that leads me to believe its so.
Sure Shot Mc Gee is offline  
Old November 18, 2014, 09:53 PM   #3
Clark
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 1999
Location: WA, the ever blue state
Posts: 4,678
I did some experimenting 10 or 12 years ago.
I welded up the feed ramp of Kel-Tec P32 so I could shoot hotter loads.
Before I welded it the powder ratio of barely cycles to case bulge was 1:2.5.
Afterwards it was 1:4.
I used 60 gr GD, 71 gr FMJ and 110 gr FMJ.
I mostly did the P32, but there were lots of others that came home from gun shows.
The factory ammo and book loads would penetrate 1" of Douglas Fir, and I got up to 7" with the hot loads, but the recoil is intolerable.
__________________
The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
Clark is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 04:00 AM   #4
hartcreek
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2014
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,549
Something is wrong with your scale. Do you have check weights? If not you should. I have loaded .32 ACP for two deckades. I use a 90 grain RN cast bullet and 85 grain XTPs over 1.9 grains of Red Dot and have no problems using my Lyman 55 powder measure or my 505 scale.

When was the last time you cleaned your scale? It does not take much dirt to effect these light charges and the scale will still balance out.
hartcreek is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 09:35 AM   #5
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,333
I agree that you need a small check weight or two... they can be found pretty reasonable on E-Bay & such, since a lot of lab scales come with them, & the weight outlast the scales... you may need to pay more for one if it's marked in grains, but if your scale will switch to grams, you can use the cheaper more common weights... if not, you can use math for the conversion...

I'll be doing a bunch of 32 ACP loading this next year, as I have a collection of old milsurp 32's & not a lot of factory ammo... so I've been stocking up on cases...

I'd want a verification of the charge weight, before running any compressed load...
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...

Last edited by Magnum Wheel Man; November 19, 2014 at 10:00 AM.
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 10:05 AM   #6
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,022
Emerson,

Welcome to the forum.

I agree with the others that you have or had some problem with the scale. Check weights are a must, or else a second scale may be used as a cross check.

That second option has become increasingly less expensive to do. If you go onto amazon.com, you can find electronic 0-20 gram scales with 0.001 gram resolution in the $20 range, and there are plenty of reviews to tell you which ones work best. 0.001 gram resolution is about 1/65 of a grain, so about 6.5 times finer than the 0.1 grains on a powder scale.. A 2.2 grain load will read 0.143 grams on such a scale. The conversion factor is 15.432 grains per gram. It isn't normal to need that much resolution, but with tiny pistol charges it may give you more confidence in what you are actually throwing. Having a count of six or seven in the last decimal place equal to a tenth of a grain gives you some throwaway wiggle room, which should increase your confidence in the readings.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 11:31 AM   #7
Emerson Biggies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2014
Posts: 163
I agree on the cleaning of the scale. I am able to easily clean the knife edges of the beam balance points, but the ceramic? "V" blocks of the base are hard to do, and probably the root of my problem. A Q-Tip won't get to the bottom of them. I have to find something around the house that will do the job.

I have two solid state scales and used one of them to test my final powder charge. It would read 2.0 grain, but even this scale did NOT show consistency. It tended to get stuck between 2.0 and 4.0 grains.

I have some test weights, but they are in the 5 gram and higher ranges.

I'm beginning to believe that the "LEE" system of "scoop measures" is safer and more accurate when addressing the problems of micro-miniature shell casings.

The American Rifleman magazine had an article many years ago concerning the 25acp and it's loading. The final statement they made was that no difference could be noted between a correct charge and filling the case to the top with powder. Go figure.
Emerson Biggies is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 11:42 AM   #8
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,333
flake powders are more difficult to measure, so I'm looking at ball powders, & trying to get set up to use my RCBS Lil Dandy measure, for my 25 ACP loading, & that will carry over for my other small cartridges like 32 S&W, & 32 ACP... The Lil Dandy seems to do a good job with micro charge measuring...
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 02:15 PM   #9
TimSr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: Rittman, Ohio
Posts: 2,074
I load both .25 and .32 but used Bullseye. I'm almost sure it should not be compressed though.

You didn't mention your scales type. I'm using an old RCBS balace beam scales that came in the first kit I bought in the 80's, and it works fine for these tiny loads. I do like your idea for a dipper. I use my powder trickler on the scales and weigh each load.
TimSr is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 02:24 PM   #10
chiefr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 27, 2010
Location: AR
Posts: 1,401
The 32 ACP is a small case and can be challenging for those with big fingers. I have been loading this number for some time and since I seldom shoot more than 50 at a time, I use a single stage or lee turret to prep the case: Deprime, size, and bell.
Then I place in a block and use a Uniflow or Lyman to charge all 50, then seat with a tapercrimp. 71gr RNFMJ and 2.0-2.1 Bulleyes dispenses great.

I have used a Dillon 550 before but not since I shoot so little, I abandoned in favor of the single stage.
chiefr is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 03:09 PM   #11
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,022
Emerson,

Note that electronic scales that are less than about $1000 typically lack Faraday shielding and good input filters. You have to keep them away from fluorescent lighting fixtures and not plug their wall warts into lines used by motorized appliances or appliances with switching regulators, like computers and most TV's now have. Plugging these into an EMI filter or an old computer UPS and help.

Your v-block is probably best cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner. However, the main problem I've found is with air-borne oils from cooking that waft in and become tacky. If you cut out some sheet polyethylene (most disposable drop cloths) to protect the finish, you can probably blast it out with Gun Scrubber or a stronger carburetor cleaner, like Berryman Chemtool.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 05:09 PM   #12
gwpercle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 30, 2012
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Posts: 1,740
After getting the scale issue resolved, make another scoop. 2.2 grains of Red Dot , according to Lyman Reloading manual is just below max for both the 71 grain jacketed RN and the 77 grain cast RN #311252. That charge will not be over pressure for either. It may be slightly compressed, but Lyman shows it as being safe.
I reloaded the 32 acp for a Walther PPK for several years, but didn't have Red Dot, my load was 2.5 grains of Unique with the cast bullet.....not the best powder but that's all I had. Made a scoop and practiced until I got the hang of scooping consistent charges.

Gary
gwpercle is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 05:15 PM   #13
RKG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 562
I was about to write that there is something wrong with your scale, but others have beat me to it. So I'll just add a a couple of observations:

1) I load a lot of .32 ACP, using Bullseye. Don't recall the exact charge, but I also load .32 S&W Long, for which my load with Speer wadcutters is 2.1 grains of Bullseye. (Which I know because I loaded a bunch this morning.) I have no trouble throwing this charge with my Uniflow measure and no trouble checking charges (I pour every 20th one into the scale) with a vintage RCBS scale. So you have something wrong somewhere.

2) It is a misnomer to assume that a balance beam scale is less accurate, or has a more difficult task, when loading really small charges. The reason is that a balance beam is not actually weighing what is in the pan, but rather it is measuring the difference between what is in the pan and what the beam weights are exerting in the other direction. So, regardless of charge weight, a balance beam is usually trying to weigh zero..

3) The foregoing is not true for electronic scales. These are based on piezoelectric circuits, where the current or voltage that is measured at a test point varies with the force applied to the piezo element. That process, in turn, may be linear enough and consistent enough in the middle ranges, but I wouldn't trust it at the low side limit. And that is before taking into account the potential error-inducing influences of EMI, RFI, voltage fluctuations, temperature fluctuations, drafts, and a bunch of other things.

4) It is possible that your scale's problem involves the knife edge, but I think that is less likely than other possibilities. Most (if not all) balance beams have some sort of damping device, so that you don't die of old age waiting for the pointer oscillations to decay. I've seem both oil dampers and magnetic dampers. Crud in the oil bath could be a problem. Likewise something interfering with passage of the beam between the magnets.

5) Test weights are OK, but less useful here than perhaps elsewhere. What you should do is set the scale for 0.0 grains and see if the pointer goes to the line. If not, adjust the scale for level and try again. Do this several times, knocking the pan off zero and watching it come back.
RKG is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 08:10 PM   #14
Emerson Biggies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2014
Posts: 163
The scale is an RCBS 5-10 that came with my Rock Chucker master kit many years ago. My electronic scales are palm sized battery operated as used by jewelers. Maybe that little specialized powder measure is for me?

I believe after talking to you fine people that a balance beam scale has got to be in a superbly clean condition and perfectly zeroed as well as leveled in order to consistently work with accuracy when the powder charges are very small.

My experiences with throwing charges in the 5 to 10 grain size are all happy in that the powder levels in the cases are where I expect them to be and the scale says "perfect" when I weigh every tenth or fifteenth charge. Somehow my scale has been choking on those 2 grain loads!

Tonight I will G.I. clean the scale bearing surfaces and do some small charge experimenting.
Thank you for your help.
Emerson Biggies is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 08:37 PM   #15
TimSr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 8, 2013
Location: Rittman, Ohio
Posts: 2,074
I just checked my records for .32 acp loads. Can't believe how long its been! Anyways, I was using Red Dot at 2.1gr under a 77gr cast round nose bullet. It was not compressed with 2.1.


I have one other suggestion if your scales are having problems at the lower edge, and are more consistent with more weight. If I want 2 gr of powder, for example, I put a 50gr bullet on the scales, set the weight on the scales for 50gr, zero it, and then set the scale for 52gr and charge it to 52gr with the bullet still on there. I'm assuming you can do the same with an electronic scale by zeroing with some weight on it, and leaving the weight on while measuring your charge.
TimSr is offline  
Old November 19, 2014, 10:37 PM   #16
Emerson Biggies
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2014
Posts: 163
Tim you are a genius......

first I have to tell you that I took a small wad of cotton and a drop of acetone and with a scribe, scrubbed out the "V" blocks. I also cleaned everything of dust and finger prints, and 25 years worth of anything that can gum up or settle on a scale with alcohol. Now it is back to being non sticky and seems consistent.

What a spiffy idea Tim. I had to whack another red mark on my forehead. POW!
Why didn't I think of that?
I want to run out and fire a few 32's now so I have empty brass and can use your idea in live practice. Unfortunately I have about a foot of snow on the ground so I'll have to wait. (I will use some bird shot in the pan to the tune of about 10 grains.)

AGun show is coming up so I will buy some 32 brass. I am also going to build a powder dipper that will throw a consistent 2.1 grain charge without buying a special powder measure. Thank you for the idea!
Emerson Biggies is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05927 seconds with 10 queries