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Old June 30, 2010, 12:56 PM   #1
drgoose
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Is this line a sign of "brass failure"

I am kind of new to rifle reloading. I have some 30-06 brass that is marked CBC (see pictures) I have fired them once with the factory load and reloaded them once. I also have a ton of Lake City 68 surpulus ammo. When I resized the LC brass it was a lot easier than the CBC brass and after the resizing I saw this line at the base of the cartridge. Is this where the full size die stops resizing or is it a fatigue line in the brass?



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Old June 30, 2010, 01:19 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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It's a sign that it's as far down as your die sizes.
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Old June 30, 2010, 01:20 PM   #3
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Looks to me like where the FL die stops resizing. I'll be interested to see others' replies.
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Old June 30, 2010, 01:34 PM   #4
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Take a paper clip & bend a "L" in the end of it then reach to the bottom of the case on the inside & feel while draggin up, it should be smooth , if ya feel a little "dip" then the case is suseptable to inceipent head case seperation upon firing.

If smooth it just indicates the bottom of the die durin sizin.
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Old June 30, 2010, 04:03 PM   #5
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It looks like that is all the sizing that needed to be done in that area, hence the striations in the brass up to that point. Doing the paper clip test will no doubt make you feel better about the brass. I have only shot a very few cases beyond the point where case head separation might be expected, and of those only a couple showed signs that were later found to be signs of separation doing the test mentioned above. Both of those were very obvious, showing how the brass was stretched away from the head/web at that point.

Unless the brass has been overworked, as mine was, you'll get this condition from too hot a powder charge or possibly from using a magnum primer where one is not called for and the powder charge approaches maximum. You'd probably experience a hard bolt lift when extracting a round like that and head embossing, loose primers, etc. Still, with the brass shortages and imports of unknown quality on the market these days, it cannot hurt to check............

As far as I know, CBC/Magtech has not been shown to be an inferior quality product. Still, it is an import and does not have a very long track record in the US. As importers scramble to fill the voids that US makers seem reluctant to tool up for, even such old reliable imports such as Lapua have had some quirks in the past couple of years......
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Old June 30, 2010, 05:55 PM   #6
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Your 100 percent correct about your die ending here.

Now I'd also suggest you getting a chamber gauge, you trial fit each trimmed cartrige to prove they are sized correctly before wasting your time priming and adding powder and bullet. My instructions and experience so far with a bunch of different brands have me adjusting the decrimper sizer die to touch the case holder, and some others have even suggested milling off a few more thousands off the case holder top so you get some more sizing closer to the case head. I have the Lyman chamber gauges for all my rifle calibers, I think they are around 20 $ a pop, but worth it, as each of my same caliber rifles have different chamber sizes and this caused me some concern when a good 308 round would work just fine in my M1A but would not chamber in my other 308, beginer here also, less than a year, so far only a few goofy rounds, and no booms in the loading room.

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Old June 30, 2010, 07:46 PM   #7
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Thanks

Thanks everyone for the input.
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Old June 30, 2010, 08:29 PM   #8
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No, it is not a sign of brass failure. Your brass has expanded to fit your chamber and your chamber may be a little large but in all probability is within SAAMI specs. Like Legionnaire said, your FL die only sizes the case body down that far. It is nothing to worry about.

I have the same bulge in my Steyr 30-06


and it shoots just fine and cases last through at least 10 firings (probably more but that is as high as I have gone so far). It does seem that 30-06 brass has a small case head in comparison to the typical chamber size.

Also the brass is starting to thicken up right next to the solid case head and does not expand as much


If you had a "tight" chamber then you would not get the bulge, however you would probably still get the delineation line between the sized case body and the unsized case head. On the other end of the scale I have a tight chambered 280AI and it gets no bulge and my Redding Body Die does not even reduce the diameter at this "pressure ring".
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Old July 1, 2010, 01:17 AM   #9
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You're fine, just where the sizing die stops. Instead, look for splits in the case neck. That's where all of my 30-06 for my Garand have failed.
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Old July 1, 2010, 04:00 AM   #10
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drgoose

Here is a thread that will give you information on "case head separation".

http://dirtydozensbunker.com/showthread.php?t=53801
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Old July 1, 2010, 05:06 AM   #11
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I agree with the guys saying that is where the die stopped. Take a couple new cases from different companies and mic them at the head. I have found Winchester brass to usually be the smallest. I would have to look, but I think SAAMI specs on most rifle brass is about .010 for body diameters. That will show quite a visual difference when resizing different brands of brass.
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Old July 1, 2010, 05:39 AM   #12
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Iv'e read before that this ring is caused by the head and web being thicker than the rest of the case wall which does not allow that portion to swell to fit the the chamber as much. Then the sizing die actually does not touch that lower portion of the case because of it's smaller diameter. I don't ever remember checking, but if this is true, a quick check with a your calipers would confirm this. I'll have to remember to check it myself when I get a second.

I would also expect that rifles with larger chambers would produce a more pronounced ring than ones with tighter chambers. I have noticed it more out of my Garands than my bolt guns. Matter of fact, I think I started reading up about it after getting my first Garand.

BTW, good eye! This is a hobby where if you see anything that looks a little iffy, read up and ask questions before loosing your eye sight or worse from the consequences.

Stay Safe and enjoy!
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Old July 3, 2010, 05:44 PM   #13
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Another thing I'd like to point out with the pictures. You'll note in the OP's picture, there are lines (scratches) running the length of the case from the sizing die.

In Woods' picture-those scratches are not there. I polish my dies inside just for that reason. I'll bet that Woods polishes his as well. Makes for a better looking case over it's reload-able lifetime.
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Old July 3, 2010, 08:21 PM   #14
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Kawabuggy,

How do you go about doing that? What do you use to polish the die?

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