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July 8, 2008, 05:46 PM | #101 |
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This quote is from an FBI report written in 1989 regarding the optimum sidearm caliber for LEO's. I found it on another forum and was impressed enough that I wrote it down. However, I failed to write down the name of the report. IMO this statement has validity.
"Any bullet which will not penetrate through vital organs from less than optimal angles is not acceptable. Of those that will penetrate, the edge is always with the bigger bullet." |
July 8, 2008, 07:19 PM | #102 |
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Breadslinger, It is acceptable if you don't expect to have to actually fire the gun.
Which points me toward yet another hypocritical practice. Putting bullets in a puny calibered carry gun. If your reason for making the choice to carry puny is based on the small probability of actually needing to fire the weapon it is hypocritical thinking to load that weapon. Is this incorrect. |
July 8, 2008, 08:21 PM | #103 |
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Why is it whenever the small caliber debate comes up someone always comes up with the stupid reply of "well if your going by the odds, you might as well not load it". I mean really, you should be able to come up with something better then that.
No one considers not loading your carry gun as a vaild option |
July 8, 2008, 08:35 PM | #104 | |
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Caliber has a CHANCE to make a difference in perhaps 1 in 10 self-defense gun uses. That's what the stats say. They don't say it makes NO difference, they say that most of the time no one gets shot and therefore in those cases where no one is shot caliber can't possibly make a difference. Those stats clearly are not a rationale for leaving your gun unloaded because SOME of the time (maybe in 1 out of 10 cases) you actually DO have to shoot. They don't tell you that caliber is meaningless because logic tells us that in at least some of the cases that make up the 10% of the time when the gun is fired caliber CAN have an effect. Ok, the next step is obviously trying to determine what happens in actual shootings. I've quoted this document repeatedly, but here it is again. In the FBI's document on handgun wounding and effectiveness the author speculates that in actual shootings, caliber might make a difference in 1% of shootings. He's talking about comparing service calibers, as you move significantly above or below that power level the significance of caliber selection obviously increases. Again we find that while caliber CAN make a difference, it makes FAR less difference than the general public believes. The author makes the point that even a large bullet from a powerful handgun will destroy far less than 1% of the tissue in a human body--just a few ounces. Clearly the REAL issue is not whether 0.05% is destroyed vs 0.045% but rather WHICH 0.05% is destroyed. The point isn't that caliber makes NO difference, the point is twofold. Caliber means nothing about 90% of the time. In the remaining 10% of the time it sometimes makes a small difference but not nearly as much difference as shot placement makes. The moral isn't that you should ignore caliber altogether, it's not that you should leave your gun unloaded, it's that you should place the PROPER emphasis on caliber and the proper emphasis on shooting skills. The bottom line is that all the "caliber" in the world won't do anything if you can't make hits, but if you CAN make good hits then nearly any caliber will do the trick. Once a shooter is making good hits in good time then he might want to consider trying to get the little bit of edge that a larger caliber might provide some of the time--as long as it doesn't hurt him significantly in the areas that matter more.
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July 8, 2008, 08:51 PM | #105 |
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John, You are dangerously reasonable and logical.
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July 8, 2008, 09:22 PM | #106 | |
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July 8, 2008, 09:44 PM | #107 |
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John, you aren't that good.
Caliber CAN make a difference, even if the gun isn't used. In a carry gun, a stainless bore, and a 45 caliber hole generally make a greater impression then my 22 short Beretta would. Same theory as looking down the barrel of a shotgun... I certainly would not want to find out if Lee Jurras' .500 Howdah was as effective on humans as it was on game.... I would think a view of this barrel, from the business end, might well deter even the highest of punks... |
July 8, 2008, 09:45 PM | #108 | ||
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July 8, 2008, 09:58 PM | #109 | ||
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It's a .177 pellet gun with a recessed muzzle. It would be interesting to see what a survey would say, but it seems the two most common responses to having a gun produced and pointed. One of them is that any gun being pointed at at a person seems to have a very large muzzle to the pointee. The second is instant flight by the pointee without any time taken to analyze the size/finish/caliber of the gun. Quote:
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July 8, 2008, 10:19 PM | #110 | |
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Advantages of the big bore snub is that when the trigger is pulled, grenade effect: the flash leave the guy blinded, and deaf, and, it appears a much bigger caliber then it is.
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July 9, 2008, 09:22 AM | #112 |
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Seems to me that 7 pages of the same endless caliber war, closed the day before this thread began, was plenty enough to last for awhile. Five pages of this and it's beginning to deteriorate.
Let's give this subject a rest for awhile, guys. Thanks. pax |
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