Could powder possibly not ignite?

Yoosta B. Blue · May 29, 2008, 06:54 PM

I don't see how that could be, but just wondering here...

I had my first squib today, while firing .38s in my Taurus 608 wheelgun. It made a light "pop" sound, no smoke, and no boom. When I rolled open the cylinder, there was the bottom of the bullet, sitting there flush with the edge of the back edge of the chamber. I managed to shove it out with a cleaning rod.

I don't see how a charge of powder would fail to ignite, but I always shine a light in each case before I begin seating bullets to ensure that every case is charged. Anyway, I evidently fouled up somehow...

YBB

Hawg · May 29, 2008, 06:58 PM

Contaminated powder, too much lube maybe?

Scorch · May 29, 2008, 07:37 PM

Quote:

I rolled open the cylinder, there was the bottom of the bullet, sitting there flush with the edge of the back edge of the chamber.

And no powder, right? I've done it myself, you're not the first. That's why when I load I take each round out of one loading block, charge it, and put it back into another loading block on the other side of the powder measure. It doesn't get from the loading block with the empty cases to the one with the loaded cases without passing under the powder measure and getting charged.

Jim Watson · May 29, 2008, 07:50 PM

You fouled up.

It IS possible for powder not to ignite. Maybe it was contaminated, maybe they got a little too smart with their blending for uber tackytickle ultra performance. My gunsmith once had a major highly respected by magazine writers name brand cartridge fizzle. He found the bullet stuck in the barrel and a lump of something about the size of a pea in the case behind it. Melted unignited powder, he figured. Maybe something in there besides powder? Who knows? But he now handloads his defense ammo with good reason.

BerettaFox · May 29, 2008, 09:35 PM

You probably forgot to put powder in... I did that once... it sucked, but I was lucky in that I replaced my stock guide rod in my px4 with a stainless steel one. I wouldn't have been able to remove it from the barrel at the range.... thank God I was alone cuz that was perrrrty embarassing.

Yithian · May 29, 2008, 10:15 PM

You didn't mention any powder spilling or blowing out.
It was probably a handload that didn't have any powder to begin with.

Good job checking the barrel.
Impatience, and being upset with a squib, makes people forget the basics and run out the next round.

Dave Haven · May 29, 2008, 10:52 PM

I know of one instance in which powder was not ignited by the primer. It was in a factory-loaded .357 magnum cartridge. The owner of the revolver brought the revolver into my Dad's shop because it didn't fire the round, and the cylinder was jammed. After removing the cartridge and pulling the bullet, it was discovered that there was no flash hole in the case, and the primer had backed out with enough force to jam the gun. One case out of millions didn't get the flash hole punched. :shrug:

Yoosta B. Blue · May 30, 2008, 06:34 AM

Thanks for all the comments. I think I was indeed fortunate this time with the squib issue, and this calls for greater, more intense efforts at safety. Scorch, I like your approach in going from one loading block to another on the other side of the powder thrower. I'll implement that into my loading techniques. Thanks!

Yoosta B. Blue

Crosshair · May 30, 2008, 07:12 AM

I had a 308 load squib on me. The powder just didn't ignite, but the bullet was shoved into the bore a bit. The powder got pushed into a nice solid plug in the case.

res45 · May 30, 2008, 07:52 AM

Best way I found to keep from missing a charge is to put my primed brass in a plastic container,remove the round charge it and then put it in the loading block,if it's not in the block then it doesn't get a bullet.

floydster · May 30, 2008, 08:13 AM

res45,
I do it the same way, also when all cases are charged, I do a visual with a flashlite. This is one of the reasons I use my turret as a single stage.
Floydster

Darren007 · May 30, 2008, 08:28 AM

I too had the same thing happen when I loaded some .45 colt rounds. The first three fired with no problems. The 4th sounded like a .22 rimfire. I was shooting a Colt SAA. I was about to cock it again and fire the 5th round, then hesitated thinking about why that last round sounded so weak. I decided to hold off and emptied the revolver. After I got home, I took the cylinder out and shone a light down the bore and sure enough there was the bullet stuck half way down the barrel

.

I dont think I missed a powder charge. I too check every round under strong light. Also after pulling the cylinder i noticed the bore and forcing cone were coated in, what looked like, unburned powder flakes.

Sure am glad I held off firing that 5th round!!!!

Mike40-11 · May 30, 2008, 06:05 PM

I use a similar 2 method for charging. I load on a single stage so I always have piles of brass in various stages of completion. I use labeled bins: "9mm tumbled", ".45 belled", etc. Once I have a bunch of brass prepped and primed I load 100 at a time. I have 2 50 round plastic loading blocks. I pull out a handful of primed brass and stand it up by the powder measure. As I charge each one, THEN it goes into the loading block. Once the block is full I use a flashlight to look into the cases and make sure they all have powder (and more or less the same amount). Set the next reloading block on top of that one and repeat.

To seat the bullets, take one case out of the block, seat, and set it back in. I use a factory crimp die so after they're all set, they go from the block to the die to the cartridge box. All done. Haven't had a no powder yet, but I have had a couple light charges. I started watching the powder drop more carefully after that.

Yoosta B. Blue · May 31, 2008, 07:21 AM

Thanks again for the helpful replies, folks. I also use a flashlight to examine each case before I give them a bullet. But even so, either I flubbed up and didn't charge that case, or the powder did not ignite. (I wish I had thought to look for the presence of unburned powder when the incident occurred, but didn't think of it at that moment.) If this propels me into a posture of practicing a greater level of safety in reloading, then it's a good thing...)

YBB

Yoosta B. Blue · June 2, 2008, 08:17 AM

Seeing as how prior to this squib incident my wife and I had never discussed such a possibility, chances are good that had she been shooting this wheel gun instead of me, she would have simply pulled the trigger again. If so, that could have been catastrophic. When she is shooting, I'm always watching closely and listening, and I feel like I would have yelled for her not to fire again... but, you never know. In any case, this has given us an opportunity to discuss it, and hopefully we will both be safer, more cautious enthusiasts because of it...

Yoosta B. Blue

SL1 · June 3, 2008, 06:02 AM

YBB,

It sounds from your loading technique that there was PROBABLY powder in your squib, although maybe a light charge.

But, with the bullet just sitting in the chamber instead of stopping at the forcing cone and tying-up the cylinder, it doesn't even sound like there was a full force primer ignition. Too bad you did not think to look for unburned powder at the moment.

Can you share with us the load that you were using? I would be interested in knowing primer, powder, charge weight, bullet type and weight.

SL1

Yoosta B. Blue · June 3, 2008, 06:17 AM

Thanks for asking about this, SL1. These were some of my favorite (I really enjoy loading and shooting them) .38 Special loads:

148 gr DEWC bullet
5.0 gr HS-6 powder
CCI Small Pistol primers
Mixed cases

I've now changed my loading technique somewhat, as spelled out by Scorch earlier in this thread. Hopefully, that will keep this from happening again...

YBB

May 29, 2008, 06:54 PM	#1
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Could powder possibly not ignite? I don't see how that could be, but just wondering here... I had my first squib today, while firing .38s in my Taurus 608 wheelgun. It made a light "pop" sound, no smoke, and no boom. When I rolled open the cylinder, there was the bottom of the bullet, sitting there flush with the edge of the back edge of the chamber. I managed to shove it out with a cleaning rod. I don't see how a charge of powder would fail to ignite, but I always shine a light in each case before I begin seating bullets to ensure that every case is charged. Anyway, I evidently fouled up somehow... YBB

May 29, 2008, 10:15 PM	#6
Yithian Senior Member Join Date: June 7, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 719	You didn't mention any powder spilling or blowing out. It was probably a handload that didn't have any powder to begin with. Good job checking the barrel. Impatience, and being upset with a squib, makes people forget the basics and run out the next round. __________________ Pondering the differences, terminally, between the V-Max and the A-Max.

May 30, 2008, 07:12 AM	#9
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	I had a 308 load squib on me. The powder just didn't ignite, but the bullet was shoved into the bore a bit. The powder got pushed into a nice solid plug in the case. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

May 30, 2008, 07:52 AM	#10
res45 Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 753	Best way I found to keep from missing a charge is to put my primed brass in a plastic container,remove the round charge it and then put it in the loading block,if it's not in the block then it doesn't get a bullet. __________________ The Reloaders Network discord Channel https://discord.gg/Nafuzht

May 30, 2008, 08:28 AM	#12
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	I too had the same thing happen when I loaded some .45 colt rounds. The first three fired with no problems. The 4th sounded like a .22 rimfire. I was shooting a Colt SAA. I was about to cock it again and fire the 5th round, then hesitated thinking about why that last round sounded so weak. I decided to hold off and emptied the revolver. After I got home, I took the cylinder out and shone a light down the bore and sure enough there was the bullet stuck half way down the barrel. I dont think I missed a powder charge. I too check every round under strong light. Also after pulling the cylinder i noticed the bore and forcing cone were coated in, what looked like, unburned powder flakes. Sure am glad I held off firing that 5th round!!!! Last edited by Darren007; May 30, 2008 at 09:05 AM.

May 29, 2008, 06:58 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Contaminated powder, too much lube maybe?

May 29, 2008, 07:50 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	You fouled up. It IS possible for powder not to ignite. Maybe it was contaminated, maybe they got a little too smart with their blending for uber tackytickle ultra performance. My gunsmith once had a major highly respected by magazine writers name brand cartridge fizzle. He found the bullet stuck in the barrel and a lump of something about the size of a pea in the case behind it. Melted unignited powder, he figured. Maybe something in there besides powder? Who knows? But he now handloads his defense ammo with good reason.

May 29, 2008, 09:35 PM	#5
BerettaFox Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2008 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 144	You probably forgot to put powder in... I did that once... it sucked, but I was lucky in that I replaced my stock guide rod in my px4 with a stainless steel one. I wouldn't have been able to remove it from the barrel at the range.... thank God I was alone cuz that was perrrrty embarassing.

May 29, 2008, 10:52 PM	#7
Dave Haven Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2000 Location: near Flagstaff, AZ Posts: 790	I know of one instance in which powder was not ignited by the primer. It was in a factory-loaded .357 magnum cartridge. The owner of the revolver brought the revolver into my Dad's shop because it didn't fire the round, and the cylinder was jammed. After removing the cartridge and pulling the bullet, it was discovered that there was no flash hole in the case, and the primer had backed out with enough force to jam the gun. One case out of millions didn't get the flash hole punched. :shrug:

May 30, 2008, 06:34 AM	#8
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Thanks for all the comments. I think I was indeed fortunate this time with the squib issue, and this calls for greater, more intense efforts at safety. Scorch, I like your approach in going from one loading block to another on the other side of the powder thrower. I'll implement that into my loading techniques. Thanks! Yoosta B. Blue

May 30, 2008, 08:13 AM	#11
floydster Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 472	res45, I do it the same way, also when all cases are charged, I do a visual with a flashlite. This is one of the reasons I use my turret as a single stage. Floydster

May 30, 2008, 06:05 PM	#13
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 842	I use a similar 2 method for charging. I load on a single stage so I always have piles of brass in various stages of completion. I use labeled bins: "9mm tumbled", ".45 belled", etc. Once I have a bunch of brass prepped and primed I load 100 at a time. I have 2 50 round plastic loading blocks. I pull out a handful of primed brass and stand it up by the powder measure. As I charge each one, THEN it goes into the loading block. Once the block is full I use a flashlight to look into the cases and make sure they all have powder (and more or less the same amount). Set the next reloading block on top of that one and repeat. To seat the bullets, take one case out of the block, seat, and set it back in. I use a factory crimp die so after they're all set, they go from the block to the die to the cartridge box. All done. Haven't had a no powder yet, but I have had a couple light charges. I started watching the powder drop more carefully after that.

May 31, 2008, 07:21 AM	#14
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Thanks again for the helpful replies, folks. I also use a flashlight to examine each case before I give them a bullet. But even so, either I flubbed up and didn't charge that case, or the powder did not ignite. (I wish I had thought to look for the presence of unburned powder when the incident occurred, but didn't think of it at that moment.) If this propels me into a posture of practicing a greater level of safety in reloading, then it's a good thing...) YBB

June 2, 2008, 08:17 AM	#15
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	An additional thought... Seeing as how prior to this squib incident my wife and I had never discussed such a possibility, chances are good that had she been shooting this wheel gun instead of me, she would have simply pulled the trigger again. If so, that could have been catastrophic. When she is shooting, I'm always watching closely and listening, and I feel like I would have yelled for her not to fire again... but, you never know. In any case, this has given us an opportunity to discuss it, and hopefully we will both be safer, more cautious enthusiasts because of it... Yoosta B. Blue

June 3, 2008, 06:02 AM	#16
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	YBB, It sounds from your loading technique that there was PROBABLY powder in your squib, although maybe a light charge. But, with the bullet just sitting in the chamber instead of stopping at the forcing cone and tying-up the cylinder, it doesn't even sound like there was a full force primer ignition. Too bad you did not think to look for unburned powder at the moment. Can you share with us the load that you were using? I would be interested in knowing primer, powder, charge weight, bullet type and weight. SL1

June 3, 2008, 06:17 AM	#17
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Thanks for asking about this, SL1. These were some of my favorite (I really enjoy loading and shooting them) .38 Special loads: 148 gr DEWC bullet 5.0 gr HS-6 powder CCI Small Pistol primers Mixed cases I've now changed my loading technique somewhat, as spelled out by Scorch earlier in this thread. Hopefully, that will keep this from happening again... YBB