WWII Relic Placement

Sundance · November 9, 2006, 04:47 PM

The local chief of police has asked me to help him with a matter. A relative of his brought home a firearm as a war trophy from WWII. Upon his death, the gun was passed down through his heirs. The most recent recepient looked into the laws and determined that he could not legally keep it, so he turned it over to the chief of police, since he was related to him. The chief has had it in storage, but is getting ready to retire. He wants to know how he could get the gun into the hands of a historical museum rather than having to destroy it. Or if a relative could legally register it, that would be nice too. I am not 100% sure, but I think it is a fully automatic sub-machine gun of French origin. It has the following markings.

MAS
1938
Cal 7.65 L
F 23448

It is blued steel with wood stock, a leather sling, stick magazine fed, with flip up peep sights in the rear and a fixed blade sight in the front. It has a neat little folding cover to cover the magazine well when there is no magazine inserted.

Any and all help would be appreciated.

DWARREN123 · November 9, 2006, 06:55 PM

Possibly any military museum on a militery post/FT/Air Base.

Sundance · November 9, 2006, 08:22 PM

I found this link to exactly what it is, if this helps.

http://www.gunsworld.com/gun_smg/mas_38.htm

GeorgeF · November 10, 2006, 12:04 AM

Question has to be - could he not legally keep it for personal reasons (local laws or felonies on record) or is it not registered?

If it is in the NFA database, then sell it. Let it get back into circulation and let someone enjoy it.

Plenty of time to get it to museum if MG's are ever outlawed.

Its uncommon but not a unique gun. Ones in existence are probably in great shape for simple reason that the ammo is obsolete and difficult to find. But not impossible.

Get police chief to call tech branch at ATF and see if numbers exist in DB. If not, check to see if any 'capture papers' or other such documentation exist.

If need more answers, ask here.

p99guy · November 10, 2006, 12:31 PM

Likelyhood it was never registered during one of the short amnesty periods in the 1960's It would be applicable to a collection like the D-Day museum, the museum itself would know the proceedure involved...call them and talk to the Curator if possible.

The National World War II Museum
945 Magazine Street
New Orleans, LA 70130
(Main Entrance on Andrew Higgins Drive)
Phone: (504) 527-6012
Fax: (504)-527-6088
Email: [email protected]

GeorgeF · November 10, 2006, 03:19 PM

As an aside, I really dig the looks and design of that SMG. They were clever in having the recoil spring go back into the stock - keeps weapon small and keeps recoil centered into firer's shoulder.

Also neat are the rear sites. If I remember correctly there are two flip up sights that fold flush into the receiver. One is for 100 yards and one for 200? All made back when firearms were constructed of big chunks of steel. Take a look at the bolt and the exterior pieces. Milled steel is tough.

Sure hope someone can get to legally own that piece. Not saying a museum doesnt deserve nice things, but these weapons were made to be used. Check also to see if anyone knows about capture papers or anything that has documentation allowing original soldier to bring it back home.

Best of luck.

p99guy · November 12, 2006, 10:29 AM

there wouldnt be capture papers on that as it is a fully automatic weapon , which was, just like now...not allowed to bring back to the states(gun control act of 1934 which made machineguns/suppressor, and short barreled firearms very controlled, and federally taxed...the same law we deal with today was in effect). Fully automatic weapons has to be snuck back in dufflebags or mailed back to the states...unlike a Mauser 98 or Luger, they were NOT ok'ed. More than a few made their way back however...one of the local Sheriff's departments has a Jap type 99 light machinegun on display that was taken from a drunk/acting out pacific theater vet in the early 1950's
The fact that the local Deputies were vets too..made them notice the top mounted magazine was missing...and the situation ended pretty quick with no loss of life. That gun has a bullet hole through the mag release, bullet dents in the cooling fins, and a long bullet rent in the butstock that had to be fired from no more than 10 degrees off the muzzle center line...and the stock is bloodstained(from the japanese operator) to look at that gun it tells silently tells the exact story....it was shooting at people, and they were shooting back...and won. The inside of this gun is in perfect running order, great bore...it would chug away with a magazine of 7.7 placed in it.
If the gun dont have a 200.00 tax stamp assiocated with it...which can be confirmed by the police chief calling NFA branch...then it can never be owned by a citizen...and either must be regestered to that police dept, donated to a recognized museum(though what ever process that envolves, or destroyed)

November 9, 2006, 04:47 PM	#1
Sundance Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 836	WWII Relic Placement The local chief of police has asked me to help him with a matter. A relative of his brought home a firearm as a war trophy from WWII. Upon his death, the gun was passed down through his heirs. The most recent recepient looked into the laws and determined that he could not legally keep it, so he turned it over to the chief of police, since he was related to him. The chief has had it in storage, but is getting ready to retire. He wants to know how he could get the gun into the hands of a historical museum rather than having to destroy it. Or if a relative could legally register it, that would be nice too. I am not 100% sure, but I think it is a fully automatic sub-machine gun of French origin. It has the following markings. MAS 1938 Cal 7.65 L F 23448 It is blued steel with wood stock, a leather sling, stick magazine fed, with flip up peep sights in the rear and a fixed blade sight in the front. It has a neat little folding cover to cover the magazine well when there is no magazine inserted. Any and all help would be appreciated.

November 10, 2006, 12:31 PM	#5
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	Likelyhood it was never registered during one of the short amnesty periods in the 1960's It would be applicable to a collection like the D-Day museum, the museum itself would know the proceedure involved...call them and talk to the Curator if possible. The National World War II Museum 945 Magazine Street New Orleans, LA 70130 (Main Entrance on Andrew Higgins Drive) Phone: (504) 527-6012 Fax: (504)-527-6088 Email: [email protected] __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

November 12, 2006, 10:29 AM	#7
p99guy Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2004 Location: Haslet,Texas(DFW area) Posts: 1,506	there wouldnt be capture papers on that as it is a fully automatic weapon , which was, just like now...not allowed to bring back to the states(gun control act of 1934 which made machineguns/suppressor, and short barreled firearms very controlled, and federally taxed...the same law we deal with today was in effect). Fully automatic weapons has to be snuck back in dufflebags or mailed back to the states...unlike a Mauser 98 or Luger, they were NOT ok'ed. More than a few made their way back however...one of the local Sheriff's departments has a Jap type 99 light machinegun on display that was taken from a drunk/acting out pacific theater vet in the early 1950's The fact that the local Deputies were vets too..made them notice the top mounted magazine was missing...and the situation ended pretty quick with no loss of life. That gun has a bullet hole through the mag release, bullet dents in the cooling fins, and a long bullet rent in the butstock that had to be fired from no more than 10 degrees off the muzzle center line...and the stock is bloodstained(from the japanese operator) to look at that gun it tells silently tells the exact story....it was shooting at people, and they were shooting back...and won. The inside of this gun is in perfect running order, great bore...it would chug away with a magazine of 7.7 placed in it. If the gun dont have a 200.00 tax stamp assiocated with it...which can be confirmed by the police chief calling NFA branch...then it can never be owned by a citizen...and either must be regestered to that police dept, donated to a recognized museum(though what ever process that envolves, or destroyed) __________________ Lighten up Francis!.....;Actor Warren Oats, in the movie "Stripes"

November 9, 2006, 06:55 PM	#2
DWARREN123 Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2006 Location: BETWEEN TN & KY Posts: 1,758	Possibly any military museum on a militery post/FT/Air Base.

November 9, 2006, 08:22 PM	#3
Sundance Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2001 Posts: 836	I found this link to exactly what it is, if this helps. http://www.gunsworld.com/gun_smg/mas_38.htm

November 10, 2006, 12:04 AM	#4
GeorgeF Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2004 Posts: 572	Question has to be - could he not legally keep it for personal reasons (local laws or felonies on record) or is it not registered? If it is in the NFA database, then sell it. Let it get back into circulation and let someone enjoy it. Plenty of time to get it to museum if MG's are ever outlawed. Its uncommon but not a unique gun. Ones in existence are probably in great shape for simple reason that the ammo is obsolete and difficult to find. But not impossible. Get police chief to call tech branch at ATF and see if numbers exist in DB. If not, check to see if any 'capture papers' or other such documentation exist. If need more answers, ask here.

November 10, 2006, 03:19 PM	#6
GeorgeF Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2004 Posts: 572	As an aside, I really dig the looks and design of that SMG. They were clever in having the recoil spring go back into the stock - keeps weapon small and keeps recoil centered into firer's shoulder. Also neat are the rear sites. If I remember correctly there are two flip up sights that fold flush into the receiver. One is for 100 yards and one for 200? All made back when firearms were constructed of big chunks of steel. Take a look at the bolt and the exterior pieces. Milled steel is tough. Sure hope someone can get to legally own that piece. Not saying a museum doesnt deserve nice things, but these weapons were made to be used. Check also to see if anyone knows about capture papers or anything that has documentation allowing original soldier to bring it back home. Best of luck.