June 24, 2012, 10:16 PM | #2351 |
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I don't think the focus has really shifted. It's a known fact that Brian Terry was killed. It's a known fact that he was killed by a firearm that the BATFE knowingly allowed to be sold to an ineligible purchaser and smuggled across the border into Mexico. But ...
What is NOT yet known is exactly who is responsible for the operation. Yeah, we know who some of the players were, but who actually ordered it, who actually gave it the official go-ahead, and who knew about it and failed to stop it who should have stopped it? Those are valid questions that directly pertain to closing the books on what led to Brian Terry's death. Those questions have not been answered, in large part, because the DOJ has lied and then stonewalled. |
June 24, 2012, 10:31 PM | #2352 |
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Issa stated publicly today that he believes that the POTUS was not involved at all in the operation or cover up.
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June 24, 2012, 11:48 PM | #2353 | |
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June 25, 2012, 12:54 AM | #2354 |
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I've also learned that F&F comes across much differently if you're watching CNN or CBS (and other media outlets) versus Fox News.
I think you can listen to Fox News and think that the focus has shifted but if you get news about F&F from other news websites, you can't even tell what the focus is. Nancy Pelosi is saying that the contempt vote is about the GOP supressing votes and it's the AG's job to uphold people's civil rights. By trumping up contempt charges - they're trying to cut him off at the knees do they can continue to strip people of their right to vote. I know it sounds crazy - but if you listened to the latest CBS story on it - that's the focus. |
June 25, 2012, 01:19 AM | #2355 |
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Bill Maher had Rachel Maddow and Nick Gillespie on his show where Maher admitted he didn't know anything about F&F until this week. Talk about being out of touch.
Maddow and Gillespie locked horns on F&F because she is convinced that Wide Receiver and F&F were both Bush era programs and that the Obama administration merely continued the programs. She apparently knows nothing of the two year lapse between them. She is a glittering jewel of colossal ignorance on this subject and facts will not deter her. Knowing the caliber of audience that Maher has it would be no wonder that people would believe the two programs were related based on Maddow's rantings. VIDEO LINK The panel on "This Week" was better on the facts and had a better balance of guests. VIDEO LINK
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey Last edited by jimpeel; June 25, 2012 at 01:29 AM. |
June 25, 2012, 01:22 AM | #2356 |
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Sharyl Atkisson has done a bang-up job of covering this case on CBS.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
June 25, 2012, 01:40 AM | #2357 |
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Congressman Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.) gave a passionate speech about why Holder should be charged with contempt and why F+F is such a huge scandal. You can see the video in the link below (recommended)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma72HQRMRdA That Pelosi is trying to muddy the water and dilute support for Issa's work is par for the course. It's called Politics. I am surprised by her insipid "conspiracy theory" however. It would have evaporated in a flash if Holder had agreed to turn over the documents and Pelosi would look even sillier. Congressman Gowdy did have some other comments about Pelosi's statement. Among other things he called it mind-numbingly stupid.
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June 25, 2012, 01:44 AM | #2358 |
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And notice how Pelosi tried to deflect the case against Holder by stating he was being targeted because he is against those who want to have "voter suppression".
They are running for the tall grass.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey |
June 25, 2012, 04:08 AM | #2359 | ||
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June 25, 2012, 07:10 AM | #2360 | |
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Watched the committee contempt hearing on TV yesterday. Also watched Issa and his Democrat counterpart.
Burke, the federal prosecutor for AZ, lied to the family of Brian Terry about the source of guns found at the murder scene. Someone high in the DOJ repeated that lie to Issas committee: Maybe it was the DOJ spokesman. That lie was not corrected for many months. Issa wants to get to the source of that lie. Burke is a long time anti-gunner and cohort of Rahm Emanuel. He was a co-architect of the AWB. Prior to being appointed federal prosecutor Burke had worked for Napolitano when she was US AG. He also worked for her in the office of the AZ governor and at Homeland Security. There were actually three F&F guns found at the Brian Terry murder scene; one was an SKS that disappeared from the radar. Some sources say the FBI hid knowledge of that gun because it was run by one of their "national security assets" in the drug cartel/s. BTW: That awful "liberal" CBS broke that story. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html Quote:
Last edited by Al Norris; June 25, 2012 at 07:55 AM. Reason: Redacted for copyright violation |
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June 25, 2012, 08:12 AM | #2361 | |
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June 25, 2012, 08:48 AM | #2362 | ||
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I've been reading some interesting commentary from liberal websites who appear to believe that claiming executive privilege is a mistake. The Daily Show lampooned the Administration's decision, the New York Times even editorialized against it, and Rep. Elijah Cummings, who hasn't been all that helpful in actually investigating was telling The Hill that "Congress has a duty to get those documents from Holder." Issa appears confident he has the votes (bipartisan even) to support the contempt citation on the House floor. Quote:
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June 25, 2012, 08:53 AM | #2363 | |
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June 25, 2012, 09:55 AM | #2364 |
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I believe the President invoking Executive Privilege has moved this from a back burner issue that was destined to be a almost non-issue to being the new "Watergate".
The invoking of the Privilege almost certainly means than both Mr. Holder and Mr. Obama had knowledge of the operation as that as I understand it is a requirement of invoking executive privilege... So basically they are both admitting on some level that they have lied in previous statements that they knew nothing about the operation while it was in active operation. This is now a issue that has suddenly gained legs and could potentially result in impeachment... If factually it is now proven the administration did know about this operation and allowed to continue to operate then we need to be gravely concerned... It would mean this administration did place lives on both sides of the border as being less important than achieving encroachments on the 2A. It would mean the administration felt gun control was more important than protecting life.
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June 25, 2012, 10:42 AM | #2365 |
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jimpeel And notice how Pelosi tried to deflect the case against Holder by stating he was being targeted because he is against those who want to have "voter suppression".
They are running for the tall grass. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim's closing might be a most reasonable estimate of the situation. |
June 25, 2012, 10:49 AM | #2366 |
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jimpeel noted:
Bill Maher had Rachel Maddow and Nick Gillespie on his show where Maher admitted he didn't know anything about F&F until this week. Talk about being out of touch. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re Mr. Maher having been included amongst those described as "opinion leaders", correct me if I'm wrong here, one wonders as to where he has been hiding, re his "not knowing anything about F & F until this week". |
June 25, 2012, 12:42 PM | #2367 | |
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I was watching CNN yesterday, when they had some lady (missed her name) ranting about how the AG had already turned over all the documents concerned with the running of F&F. Talk about wanting to scream at the TV! |
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June 25, 2012, 01:54 PM | #2368 | |
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I'm not sure that will be successful, but it may help organizations such as the Huffington Post and other media outlets supporting Obama which need talking points on this for the media circus which is starting to develop.
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June 25, 2012, 02:06 PM | #2369 |
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It's a long read, but is very informative as to the what, how and why of F&F: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...rew-c-mccarthy
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June 25, 2012, 04:27 PM | #2370 | ||
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From the National Review article:
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See Issas memo to his committee dated 3 May, 2012, page 4: Quote:
Last edited by thallub; June 25, 2012 at 05:11 PM. |
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June 25, 2012, 04:50 PM | #2371 | ||
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The last congressional investigation took place with a Democrat house and senate: Bush took executive privilege. http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=6031574&page=1 Quote:
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-1981433.html Last edited by thallub; June 25, 2012 at 05:17 PM. |
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June 25, 2012, 05:59 PM | #2372 | ||
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In the example you refer to, the subpoena wasn't issued until June 2007, after the Democrats had the House and Senate. The subpoena sought an interview of the Special Prosecutor of VP Cheney in an attempt to prove the Plame scandal went higher than Scooter Libby. Bush claimed Executive Privilege to block this. I am not sure if Congress ever received the transcript; but a watchdog group called CREW sued the U.S. to release it, and ironically the Obama Administration DOJ took the position that the transcript was protected by Executive Privilege (which again goes to show that it isn't all about political loyalty). They lost that fight though and the transcript was released. For that matter, the Bush Administration ended up caving on most of the Executive Privilege assertions it did make as far as I can find - Karl Rove did testify to Congress (post election) as did Miers and Mukasey. So I would say that bodes well for the chances of the Oversight Committee to get the documents it wants to see. Quote:
Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; June 25, 2012 at 06:06 PM. |
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June 25, 2012, 06:08 PM | #2373 | |
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June 25, 2012, 06:36 PM | #2374 |
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Even though he does so in a humorous way, even Jon Stewart gets it when it comes to F&F.
VIDEO LINK So a comedian gets it while others who claim to be serious political analysts are only learning of this scandalous debacle this week; and then the likes of Nancy Pelosi try to spin the contempt citation into a racist rant against Republicans so she can deflect the story away from those who are just beginning to understand its importance. <sigh> They will even try to cover up and mitigate the murder of a border patrol agent in their quest to retain power.
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Gun Control: The premise that a woman found in an alley, raped and strangled with her own pantyhose, is morally superior to allowing that same woman to defend her life with a firearm. "Science is built up with facts, as a house is with stones. But a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house." - Jules Henri Poincare "Three thousand people died on Sept. 11 because eight pilots were killed" -- former Northwest Airlines pilot Stephen Luckey Last edited by jimpeel; June 25, 2012 at 07:48 PM. |
June 25, 2012, 08:25 PM | #2375 |
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Apparently, way back in Summer 2011 when Ken Melson decided to testify on his own, he testified that after reading the wiretap affidavits, he realized that the DOJ letter to Congress was wrong and sent an email to "senior DOJ officials" warning them to back off the initial response to Sen. Grassley. DOJ did not retract the letter until December 2011.
This is one of the emails Congress has requested that has not been provided by DOJ yet. It sounds like the Oversight Committee may have given Holder enough rope to wind it around his neck a few times. http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/25/at...ant-shield-it/ |
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