Powder increase question

ocracokenc · April 2, 2013, 10:17 PM

I went to N.C. and shot my first reloads this weekend. They were 40sw and 45acp. the 40 was a 165 rainier with 4.8 grains Universal and the 45 a 200 grain rainier and 5.8 grains universal. the 40 were very mild and shot ok but the 45acp was way under pressure and my Glock 36 stove piped on the only 4 I shot and the brass was mostly black. My question is how much do you increase powder as you work up? I also wonder can powder go bad because the both seemed lower than what I thought or are starting loads that way sometimes? Thanks for the help. BTW the 40 were CCI primers with a O.A.L of 1.125 and the 45 pmc non-toxic and a O.A.L of 1.225

Misssissippi Dave · April 2, 2013, 10:49 PM

I have not used Universal powder before. For other powders in handgun loads I have found the beginning load data generally would not cycle my pistols quite often. When checking out a new load, I look for powders that give me a pretty good range between min. and max. load data. I prefer a powder that will have close to a full grain between min and max. The wider the spread the better in my opinion.

When using such a powder I jump up to .2 grains above the minimum for my starting point. I will load 5 to 10 test rounds for each increase of .1 grains of powder. I shoot 5 round groups preferably from a rest. Sandbags or at least a stable surface will do if needed to try to take the human error out of the equation to see how it does for accuracy. I also check the cases of the rounds fired to see how they are doing as well. I'm looking for a load that cycles the pistol first. Then once I get to that point I look to see if it is accurate. As the load increases normally the groups tighten up to a point. Then they often will start spreading out again as I increase the charge. I will test more rounds from the middle of the level where the groups were the tightest for further testing.

I have yet to find the most accurate loads at the top end of listed data. Most of the time I have found them some place between the low end to middle or middle to upper end of the data. There is no telling just where this might be at. You have to use trial and error. Any time I see pressure signs or have rounds loaded above where they are accuate I pull them later to be reused.

This works for me and it seems everyone has a method they prefer. If I think I need a faster traveling bullet I switch to a better power to get what I'm looking for rather than push a given powder beyond the max levels.

serf 'rett · April 3, 2013, 08:34 AM

For powders with about 1 grain spread between min/max I generally use steps of 0.2 grains. Many times the lower charge weights will not operate the pistol.

When properly stored, powder will last for years. I just finished loading the last of a three pound can, as in metal can not plastic bottle, of W231 a coworker gave me. Stuff was easily over 25 years old.

sourdough44 · April 3, 2013, 02:36 PM

FWIW, I use 5.2 grns of H Universal in the 40 with a 165 grn plated bullet. That's still leaves room on the upside & won't(shouldn't) get you in any trouble.

I happen to also load the 200 grn RN plated bullet for my 45's with Universal. I use 6.1 grns of Universal for that, still nothing to cause trouble.

ocracokenc · April 3, 2013, 04:09 PM

Sourdough44, That sounds like a good starting point. My 40 was ok but they were on the low side for sure. I got one pound of Winchester Autocomp in NC because that is all they had and I can not find powder in Tampa

Misssissippi Dave · April 3, 2013, 07:44 PM

I prefer to use WST (Winchester Super Target) powder for my .45 loads. Powder Valley even has it in stock now. I think the shipping time is still several weeks. I have read about several people using it also for soft shooting .40 loads. I also use it in 9 mm. There is not a lot of data available for 9 mm loads with WST powder. It fills the case and is close to a compressed load. That is probably why it is so consistant. WST is a fast powder so you are probably only going to get mild loads out of it. It is quite clean burning and measure well. For punching paper it works well for me. WST is originally a shotgun powder.

April 2, 2013, 10:17 PM	#1
ocracokenc Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Posts: 19	Powder increase question I went to N.C. and shot my first reloads this weekend. They were 40sw and 45acp. the 40 was a 165 rainier with 4.8 grains Universal and the 45 a 200 grain rainier and 5.8 grains universal. the 40 were very mild and shot ok but the 45acp was way under pressure and my Glock 36 stove piped on the only 4 I shot and the brass was mostly black. My question is how much do you increase powder as you work up? I also wonder can powder go bad because the both seemed lower than what I thought or are starting loads that way sometimes? Thanks for the help. BTW the 40 were CCI primers with a O.A.L of 1.125 and the 45 pmc non-toxic and a O.A.L of 1.225

April 3, 2013, 08:34 AM	#3
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	For powders with about 1 grain spread between min/max I generally use steps of 0.2 grains. Many times the lower charge weights will not operate the pistol. When properly stored, powder will last for years. I just finished loading the last of a three pound can, as in metal can not plastic bottle, of W231 a coworker gave me. Stuff was easily over 25 years old. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

April 2, 2013, 10:49 PM	#2
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I have not used Universal powder before. For other powders in handgun loads I have found the beginning load data generally would not cycle my pistols quite often. When checking out a new load, I look for powders that give me a pretty good range between min. and max. load data. I prefer a powder that will have close to a full grain between min and max. The wider the spread the better in my opinion. When using such a powder I jump up to .2 grains above the minimum for my starting point. I will load 5 to 10 test rounds for each increase of .1 grains of powder. I shoot 5 round groups preferably from a rest. Sandbags or at least a stable surface will do if needed to try to take the human error out of the equation to see how it does for accuracy. I also check the cases of the rounds fired to see how they are doing as well. I'm looking for a load that cycles the pistol first. Then once I get to that point I look to see if it is accurate. As the load increases normally the groups tighten up to a point. Then they often will start spreading out again as I increase the charge. I will test more rounds from the middle of the level where the groups were the tightest for further testing. I have yet to find the most accurate loads at the top end of listed data. Most of the time I have found them some place between the low end to middle or middle to upper end of the data. There is no telling just where this might be at. You have to use trial and error. Any time I see pressure signs or have rounds loaded above where they are accuate I pull them later to be reused. This works for me and it seems everyone has a method they prefer. If I think I need a faster traveling bullet I switch to a better power to get what I'm looking for rather than push a given powder beyond the max levels.

April 3, 2013, 02:36 PM	#4
sourdough44 Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: WI Posts: 621	FWIW, I use 5.2 grns of H Universal in the 40 with a 165 grn plated bullet. That's still leaves room on the upside & won't(shouldn't) get you in any trouble. I happen to also load the 200 grn RN plated bullet for my 45's with Universal. I use 6.1 grns of Universal for that, still nothing to cause trouble.

April 3, 2013, 04:09 PM	#5
ocracokenc Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Posts: 19	Sourdough44, That sounds like a good starting point. My 40 was ok but they were on the low side for sure. I got one pound of Winchester Autocomp in NC because that is all they had and I can not find powder in Tampa

April 3, 2013, 07:44 PM	#6
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	I prefer to use WST (Winchester Super Target) powder for my .45 loads. Powder Valley even has it in stock now. I think the shipping time is still several weeks. I have read about several people using it also for soft shooting .40 loads. I also use it in 9 mm. There is not a lot of data available for 9 mm loads with WST powder. It fills the case and is close to a compressed load. That is probably why it is so consistant. WST is a fast powder so you are probably only going to get mild loads out of it. It is quite clean burning and measure well. For punching paper it works well for me. WST is originally a shotgun powder.