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December 2, 2011, 09:33 AM | #1 |
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Join Date: December 2, 2011
Posts: 15
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buying out of state transferring to NJ
Hello All, Ive used this site in the past . Its been quiet some time since ive been here so i forgot my original SN.
So here is my question,which i think i already know the answer to. Cant hurt to check though. Here in NJ you may not legally possess any magazine with a capacity greater then 15 rounds. So i found and AR-10 on Bud's gunshop great price. Here's the problem it comes with a 10 and 20 rnd mag. So i had a friend buy it and have it shipped to them (VT). Then they will remove the 20 rnd mag and ship to my FFL in NJ. Other then the magazine the gun is NJ legal. This would not be considered a straw purchase since it will be shipped to a FFL in NJ and then legally transferred to my name. Am I correct or have i missed some obscure law? My friend will have the gun transferred to their name then it will be shipped and transferred to my name. |
December 2, 2011, 10:49 AM | #2 |
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Join Date: February 13, 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,254
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Personally I would have just called Buds and worked it out with them. They probably would have been willing to swap magazines for you.
The straw purchase provision was originally meant to stop someone who can't legally buy a firearm from getting a 3rd person to do it for them. The problem is the wording of the law. If you gave your friend money to buy it for you, then technically it would be a straw purchase. If he bought it with his own money and then sold it to you, that would NOT be a straw purchase. It comes down to semantics really. But chances are pretty good that no one in law enforcement would give a damn if you're going through an FFL and doing the NICS check etc. Then again this is NJ so god only knows what the bonehead law enforcement would do. They like making examples. |
December 2, 2011, 11:09 AM | #3 |
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Join Date: December 2, 2011
Posts: 15
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You would think that it would be easy to have them swap out a magazine. Apparently its not and they wont do it. Not one dealer that i contacted would do it. They paid for the gun ,purchased in their name. Then they will sell it to me via a FFL in NJ.Gun like i said is NJ legal with only 1 ten rounder. I don't see how this would be a problem as long as it is all transferred legally. UGH this state is completely lost as are the morons thats make the laws. So out of touch with reality.
Apparently most of the online dealers,even those with brick and mortar have the guns drop shipped from a distributor. So they a lot of times dont even see the firearm. Cant wait to leave this state |
December 2, 2011, 11:48 AM | #4 | |
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Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
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Are you certain the rifle is NJ-legal other than the "high capacity" magazine? I'm not from NJ. How closely does NJ's regulation mirror the now-expired Federal AWB? If this was a rifle bought right off Bud's web site, I'll bet it's a fairly standard AR-15, which means it probably has a bayonet lug and a flash hider (not a "compensator"). Are you certain those two "evil" features are legal in NJ? I'm pretty sure they are NOT legal in NY.
{ETA}Google to the rescue: http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.p...e-list-nj-awb/ From the link, another link: http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/3assltf.pdf Which gives us what NJ considers to be the proscribed "evil" features: Quote:
Lastly, if the rife your friend bought has a telescoping stock, it will have to be set in the best position and the mechanism filled with epoxy to disable the telescoping feature. Last edited by Aguila Blanca; December 2, 2011 at 11:57 AM. |
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December 2, 2011, 12:32 PM | #5 |
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Join Date: December 2, 2011
Posts: 15
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The only thing that it does have on the list is the pistol grip.Solid stock,no bayonet lug,non threaded muzzle.One 10 round magazine,20" inch barrel. I'm very aware of the evil dodads that would make it illegal. Because as you know we have an over abundance of gang bangers in NJ that use bayonets when committing drive bys and or robbing homes,banks etc .. why just yesterday a gang banger was in the gun shop legally buying a firearm so he could commit felonies with a legal gun..
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December 2, 2011, 04:10 PM | #6 |
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Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
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Cool. I didn't know anyone even produced a post-ban compliant AR any more, since the expiration of the Federal AWB. During the ban I bought a post-ban Olympic Arms AR, but the same model today has at least two features that would disqualify it in most of the states that have their own AWBs.
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December 3, 2011, 04:19 AM | #7 | ||
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Join Date: June 24, 2008
Posts: 2,604
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Quote:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...f-p-5300-4.pdf page 164 Quote:
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December 3, 2011, 07:40 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: August 2, 2005
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 3,943
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Don't agree with the law... but you and your friend are technically doing a straw purchase for the simple reason when he or she in VT fills out the paper work for the transfer to that state they have to answer 'no' to the question of if they are buying the gun for someone else... because obviously they are.
why could you not just tell the original seller to keep the 20 round mag? |
March 21, 2012, 10:08 AM | #9 |
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Join Date: December 29, 2011
Posts: 91
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New Jerseg gun laws
Sometimes i really hate living in Nj. My spring BB gun is technically a firearm. So is my paintball gun. Im sure in a few years, my wood recurve bow will be a firearm
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March 21, 2012, 11:54 AM | #10 | |||
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 9,471
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The OP here has problems.
Quote:
The issue is that when someone is buying a gun on behalf of another, at that person's request, on his behalf, as his agent, the person purchasing the gun is not, in the contemplation of the law, the actual purchaser. He would therefore be making a false statement if he claims on the 4473 to be the actual purchaser. And that is what the ATF considers to be a straw purchase. See the ATF publication Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide, 2005 which states on page 165 (emphasis added):
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March 29, 2012, 02:44 PM | #11 |
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Join Date: July 10, 2008
Location: Live Free or Die state
Posts: 259
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If you haven't actually made the purchase yet, you might stop and reconsider. There are post-ban compliant ARs still made and sold. For example, what is in your local gun shop inventory? I know SW makes a sport version that is CT and CA compliant (just bought one) that has no comp or threads and the multiposition stock is pinned in place. (haven't pulled the pin to see if it is also glued!).
Downsides are no dust cover and no forward assist. The assist can be accomplished with a thumb if necessary, and the dust cover - i just decided to buy one that is completely CT legal. Came with a 10 round mag. Since we don't have the mag restrictions, i've stocked up on 30 rounders. Stag also makes compliant arms, and is the only company i know making left-handed uppers for us southpaws. It isn't hard to assemble your own, buying a stripped lower from an FFL and then getting an upper assembly with lower parts kits. Assembly instructions are all over the web, if you don't already know how yourself. I didn't go with that option because i didn't want to possess an illegal rifle in CT and face the (remote) possibility of being tried for a felony. But your friend will have to answer falsely on the 4473 in order to make this go through. That is a straw purchase. Another grey area is buying a gun with the intent of giving it as a gift. Good thing we have all these ridiculous laws to keep us safe from the other law-abiding gun owners.
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"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness... How pathetic." - - Ted Nugent "Cogito, Ergo Armitum Sum" - (I Think, Therefore I Am Armed)- - anon. |
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