7mm vs 30-06 - Page 2

davlandrum · December 11, 2007, 02:53 PM

Quote:

I have a friend who fits in the category of the quote of Mtn Hawk's that was used

I know they are out there, but the guy I hunt with that shoots a 7mm Rem Mag is absolutely the best shot I have ever known (OK, second best to his dad, RIP). He likes the extra range the 7 gives him, and he can actually shoot well enough to make it important.

But his back-up gun is an -06....

Capp35 · December 11, 2007, 09:45 PM

I think several people hit on the main idea. It is what ever feels best for you and that you are comfortable using. They are both great rounds and I have owned both.
I don't notice any recoil difference between my old 06 and the 7mm, but I went to a heavier rifle.
I am more accurate with my 7mag also (most accurate rifle I have ever owned), but that could be due to the rifle and premium optics.

I also have more confidence in my new rifle and can clover leaf my shots. Isn't good shooting at least 1/3 confidence in what you shoot?

As far as the cost of shooting, or wearing the barrel out, that is void to me. I shoot 2-3 boxes a year before deer season, to check accuracy and get comfortable with it again. (I shoot twice a month though with pistols)

So there again, buy/shoot what you enjoy and are confident in.

sasquatch · December 11, 2007, 10:09 PM

7mm Rem Mag 162gr. Amax BC .625 3000fps Max Load

300yds 2557 fps 2352 energy bullet drop -6.1 Wind Drift 10mph 4.3

30-06 168gr Amax BC .475 2900fps Max Load

300yd 2338 fps 2040 energy bullet drop -7.1 Wind Drift 10mph 6.1

1" difference @ 300 yards means exactly jack squat in a hunting situtation. This discussion has degenerated into the likes of "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin".

castnblast · December 22, 2007, 01:42 PM

yeah, but if you are looking for trajectory, look no further than the 140 BTSP for the ole 7 mag. Both are good guns, the 7mag is just better...

Art Eatman · December 22, 2007, 03:49 PM

I don't reckon an inch or two of trajectory is of enough importance to justify choosing one over the other. If it is expected that there would be shots out around 600 yards as a matter of course, the 7mm Rem with a good 160-grain bullet would outshine the '06. From 500 on in, though, it's not enough difference to care about.

Much beyond 300, knowing the range is important no matter which is chosen. Beyond 400, they're both getting an attack of basketballitis.

Desertscout1 · December 25, 2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

yeah, but if you are looking for trajectory, look no further than the 140 BTSP for the ole 7 mag. Both are good guns, the 7mag is just better...

That is solely dependent on what load you use. Since there is no 140 gr bullet that I know of for the '06, that's not quite a fair comparison but, if you use a 10 grain heavier bullet and go with a 150 for the '06 and start them both out of the gate at the same speed, they vitually ballistic twins. Let's start them both out at 3000 fps. Yes, they can both be made to go faster but, as I said earlier, since they ballistic doubles, you can make either one out do the other. It just depends on the individual.
Assuming we start them both out at 300 fps, the 7 mag shoots 2" flatter at 800 yards! At more reasonable ranges, say, 400 yards, there is .11" difference. Eleven hundredths of an inch.

A 130 grain '06 shoots flatter than both of them.

Art Eatman · December 25, 2007, 05:32 PM

One of the reasons I like the Sierra reloading handbook is because the appendices include lots of information on external ballistics. All of these comparisons, out to six hundred yards, are right there in the book.

I say the stuff I say because I cheat: I read the book.

MeekAndMild · December 25, 2007, 07:32 PM

Hmmm. You see a lot of 7mm magnums in the pawn shops and on used dealers tables at gun shows but not too many 30-06 rifles. This says something considering there are probably 50 30-06 out there for every 7mm magnum. What I think it says but can't prove it is that people buy the 7mm and then don't like it for one reason or another and sell it but they keep their 30-06.

Firepower! · May 17, 2008, 10:40 AM

I am glad I found this thread. Very useful info and comparison between the two greats. 06 and 7mm Mag!

roy reali · May 17, 2008, 11:35 AM

There is another number to look at when comparing two cartridges of different calibers. Compare the sectional density of similar weight 30 caliber and 7mm bullets. The 7 does have slight advantage in any given weight.

Firepower! · May 17, 2008, 12:17 PM

Roy, could you please elaborate?
Thanks

Kawabuggy · May 17, 2008, 03:47 PM

I did the obvious-I bought a new one of each caliber in the last month. I will let you guys know in a few weeks which I think is better & why.

I load all of my own ammo and one thing I noticed already is that brass for the 7 mag is pricey... and they do eat a lot of powder. I have loaded 20 rounds of Ballistic Tip Boat Tails for the 7MM (140 grain), and 20 of the 150 grain FBSP (Hornady) for the -06.

If this post is still around in a few weeks I will weigh in with my official report as to which I like better.

I realize that brand, weight, optics, cosmetics, functionality will play as much, if not more, a role in my choice than actual caliber. Disregard my choice as it really won't matter.....

It would be easier to choose which caliber by simply test firing a gun and see which one you are more accurate with, and which one FEELS better to you.

W. C. Quantrill · May 17, 2008, 05:55 PM

If you are content at loafing the .30-06 out at 2650 fps, and compare it to a 7mm at 2900 fps, then you have some ballistical differences. However, if you load the .30-06 up to where it performs the best at the 2900 fps mark and then compare it to the 7, then the difference in ballistics are not much different.

I am running my .30-06 right close to 2950 fps with 165 gr boat tails. I can do anything you can do with your 7mm, with less powder, with less recoil, with less muzzleblast, longer case life, and less meat damage.

roy reali · May 17, 2008, 06:41 PM

Sure thing. It has to do with how well a bullet penetrates. Here is a link that does a good job of explaining sectional density.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

Brad Clodfelter · May 17, 2008, 07:08 PM

Lot's of various opinions. I'll give you mine. These are two of my personal favorite cartridges along with the 270 Win. Both will do what you are wanting them to do. Having shot both on deer, I'm gonna give the nod to the 7MM Rem Mag. It just seems to kill deer quicker and hits them harder with more ft/lbs of energy. It shoots flatter too.

Brad Clodfelter · May 17, 2008, 07:22 PM

Here's 2 comparison loads of the exact same weight and kind of bullet that Federal loads for each.

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150

Now it may not be a lot of difference, but the advantage goes to the 7mm Mag.

Brad Clodfelter · May 17, 2008, 07:32 PM

But both are very hard to beat.

Brad Clodfelter · May 17, 2008, 07:46 PM

In all fairness to the 30-06 though, this is one load that Federal makes that looks very good with the 180gr bullet. The 30-06 seems to do better pushing the 180gr bullets as for overall performance in velocity and ftl/lbs.

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=180

Firepower! · May 18, 2008, 05:59 AM

Thank you for the links to ballistic tables.
I cant wait forthe field report.

A question arises since you threw in .270 Win. I have so far a 308, 7x57, .243 and a 7mm Rem Mag for hunting and targets. I want to know where does the 270 fit in? I understand it is a very popular cartridge in US. Also, I am curious to know if for my next gun a 270 or 30.06 will be a better choice, given what I have already?

I know there are other great calibers but they are not available in Pakistan. Even when you find a used rifle you can't fine ammo.

Hawg · May 18, 2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

If you are content at loafing the .30-06 out at 2650 fps, and compare it to a 7mm at 2900 fps, then you have some ballistical differences. However, if you load the .30-06 up to where it performs the best at the 2900 fps mark and then compare it to the 7, then the difference in ballistics are not much different.

I am running my .30-06 right close to 2950 fps with 165 gr boat tails. I can do anything you can do with your 7mm, with less powder, with less recoil, with less muzzleblast, longer case life, and less meat damage.

All true.

Brad Clodfelter · May 18, 2008, 07:47 AM

Firepower,

I for one don't know what calibers you currently have. If you already have a big gun like a 300 Win Mag, there is no need to get a 7MM Rem Mag. The 300 Win Mag will be perfect. If you are limited by choices of ammo, I would either get the 30-06 or the 270 Win. I've had both. If I had to pick one for likes, I guess the better all around choice due to bullet selection as far as range of weight in grs, the 30-06 will be the way to go.

You said you wanted to see some ballistic performance tables on the 270.

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=130

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=140

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150

http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=110

lt dan · May 18, 2008, 09:02 AM

the 7 mm maus and the 30-06 are loved rifles in africa. my sugestion is this. have a look at the 8mm mauser, that compares better with the 06. 30-06 / 7mm or 8mm, if that is the choice will go with the 06. it is importend to say this- you are considering two of the best hunting rifles ever build, while doing that why not go 300wm? it is above mentioned +20%. if you dont like the wm recoil build the ultimate nl a 300H&H. same recoil as the 270 but more speed than a 300wm.this calibre is a well cept secret of the african hunter. and dont forget the H&H allure

Huntergirl · May 18, 2008, 10:15 AM

I have used both with great results, but am sticking mainly to the 30-06 because its not as loud as my 7mag, and I have tons of ammo for it.

roy reali · May 18, 2008, 10:23 AM

http://benchrest.com/sst/sd.html

Enter the same bullet weight for .308 diameter and .284 diameter. In any given bullet weight, at similar velocities and construction, the 7mm projectile will penetrate more then the 30 caliber one.

Firepower! · May 18, 2008, 10:27 AM

I would love to get a 300 or even 375 not to forget 700 nitro!

That said, unfortunately these calibers are not available in Pakistan. Even when you find a rifle in those big bores you are out of luck for bullets.

Recoil and noise are no problem.

Today I did purchase a 7mm Mag. Now I want to scope it, and would like to know what is highest power scope best suit for this caliber?

I might buy 30-06 as well in future as I have found one with engravings. Its German with some very strange name starting with O.

December 11, 2007, 10:09 PM	#28
sasquatch Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Location: Western WA Posts: 1,347	7mm Rem Mag 162gr. Amax BC .625 3000fps Max Load 300yds 2557 fps 2352 energy bullet drop -6.1 Wind Drift 10mph 4.3 30-06 168gr Amax BC .475 2900fps Max Load 300yd 2338 fps 2040 energy bullet drop -7.1 Wind Drift 10mph 6.1 1" difference @ 300 yards means exactly jack squat in a hunting situtation. This discussion has degenerated into the likes of "how many angels can fit on the head of a pin". __________________ Just my 2¢. Last edited by sasquatch; December 12, 2007 at 10:51 AM.

December 22, 2007, 01:42 PM	#29
castnblast Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2006 Location: Corpus Christi TX Posts: 1,148	yeah, but if you are looking for trajectory, look no further than the 140 BTSP for the ole 7 mag. Both are good guns, the 7mag is just better... __________________ VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter

December 25, 2007, 07:32 PM	#33
MeekAndMild Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2001 Posts: 4,988	Hmmm. You see a lot of 7mm magnums in the pawn shops and on used dealers tables at gun shows but not too many 30-06 rifles. This says something considering there are probably 50 30-06 out there for every 7mm magnum. What I think it says but can't prove it is that people buy the 7mm and then don't like it for one reason or another and sell it but they keep their 30-06. __________________ In a few years when the dust finally clears and people start counting their change there is a pretty good chance that President Obama may become known as The Great Absquatulator. You heard it first here on TFL.

May 17, 2008, 11:35 AM	#35
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Another Number There is another number to look at when comparing two cartridges of different calibers. Compare the sectional density of similar weight 30 caliber and 7mm bullets. The 7 does have slight advantage in any given weight.

May 17, 2008, 05:55 PM	#38
W. C. Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2008 Location: No Man's Land Posts: 354	If you are content at loafing the .30-06 out at 2650 fps, and compare it to a 7mm at 2900 fps, then you have some ballistical differences. However, if you load the .30-06 up to where it performs the best at the 2900 fps mark and then compare it to the 7, then the difference in ballistics are not much different. I am running my .30-06 right close to 2950 fps with 165 gr boat tails. I can do anything you can do with your 7mm, with less powder, with less recoil, with less muzzleblast, longer case life, and less meat damage. __________________ NRA Life Whittington Center Life

December 11, 2007, 09:45 PM	#27
Capp35 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2006 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 198	I think several people hit on the main idea. It is what ever feels best for you and that you are comfortable using. They are both great rounds and I have owned both. I don't notice any recoil difference between my old 06 and the 7mm, but I went to a heavier rifle. I am more accurate with my 7mag also (most accurate rifle I have ever owned), but that could be due to the rifle and premium optics. I also have more confidence in my new rifle and can clover leaf my shots. Isn't good shooting at least 1/3 confidence in what you shoot? As far as the cost of shooting, or wearing the barrel out, that is void to me. I shoot 2-3 boxes a year before deer season, to check accuracy and get comfortable with it again. (I shoot twice a month though with pistols) So there again, buy/shoot what you enjoy and are confident in.

December 22, 2007, 03:49 PM	#30
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I don't reckon an inch or two of trajectory is of enough importance to justify choosing one over the other. If it is expected that there would be shots out around 600 yards as a matter of course, the 7mm Rem with a good 160-grain bullet would outshine the '06. From 500 on in, though, it's not enough difference to care about. Much beyond 300, knowing the range is important no matter which is chosen. Beyond 400, they're both getting an attack of basketballitis.

December 25, 2007, 05:32 PM	#32
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	One of the reasons I like the Sierra reloading handbook is because the appendices include lots of information on external ballistics. All of these comparisons, out to six hundred yards, are right there in the book. I say the stuff I say because I cheat: I read the book.

May 17, 2008, 10:40 AM	#34
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I am glad I found this thread. Very useful info and comparison between the two greats. 06 and 7mm Mag!

May 17, 2008, 12:17 PM	#36
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Roy, could you please elaborate? Thanks

May 17, 2008, 03:47 PM	#37
Kawabuggy Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Posts: 224	I did the obvious-I bought a new one of each caliber in the last month. I will let you guys know in a few weeks which I think is better & why. I load all of my own ammo and one thing I noticed already is that brass for the 7 mag is pricey... and they do eat a lot of powder. I have loaded 20 rounds of Ballistic Tip Boat Tails for the 7MM (140 grain), and 20 of the 150 grain FBSP (Hornady) for the -06. If this post is still around in a few weeks I will weigh in with my official report as to which I like better. I realize that brand, weight, optics, cosmetics, functionality will play as much, if not more, a role in my choice than actual caliber. Disregard my choice as it really won't matter..... It would be easier to choose which caliber by simply test firing a gun and see which one you are more accurate with, and which one FEELS better to you.

May 17, 2008, 06:41 PM	#39
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	re:firepower Sure thing. It has to do with how well a bullet penetrates. Here is a link that does a good job of explaining sectional density. http://www.chuckhawks.com/sd.htm

May 17, 2008, 07:08 PM	#40
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	Lot's of various opinions. I'll give you mine. These are two of my personal favorite cartridges along with the 270 Win. Both will do what you are wanting them to do. Having shot both on deer, I'm gonna give the nod to the 7MM Rem Mag. It just seems to kill deer quicker and hits them harder with more ft/lbs of energy. It shoots flatter too.

May 17, 2008, 07:22 PM	#41
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	Here's 2 comparison loads of the exact same weight and kind of bullet that Federal loads for each. http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150 http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150 Now it may not be a lot of difference, but the advantage goes to the 7mm Mag.

May 17, 2008, 07:32 PM	#42
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	But both are very hard to beat.

May 17, 2008, 07:46 PM	#43
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	In all fairness to the 30-06 though, this is one load that Federal makes that looks very good with the 180gr bullet. The 30-06 seems to do better pushing the 180gr bullets as for overall performance in velocity and ftl/lbs. http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=180

May 18, 2008, 05:59 AM	#44
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	Thank you for the links to ballistic tables. I cant wait forthe field report. A question arises since you threw in .270 Win. I have so far a 308, 7x57, .243 and a 7mm Rem Mag for hunting and targets. I want to know where does the 270 fit in? I understand it is a very popular cartridge in US. Also, I am curious to know if for my next gun a 270 or 30.06 will be a better choice, given what I have already? I know there are other great calibers but they are not available in Pakistan. Even when you find a used rifle you can't fine ammo.

May 18, 2008, 07:47 AM	#46
Brad Clodfelter Registration in progress Join Date: January 26, 2007 Posts: 925	Firepower, I for one don't know what calibers you currently have. If you already have a big gun like a 300 Win Mag, there is no need to get a 7MM Rem Mag. The 300 Win Mag will be perfect. If you are limited by choices of ammo, I would either get the 30-06 or the 270 Win. I've had both. If I had to pick one for likes, I guess the better all around choice due to bullet selection as far as range of weight in grs, the 30-06 will be the way to go. You said you wanted to see some ballistic performance tables on the 270. http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=130 http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=140 http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=150 http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...&bulletwgt=110

May 18, 2008, 09:02 AM	#47
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	the 7 mm maus and the 30-06 are loved rifles in africa. my sugestion is this. have a look at the 8mm mauser, that compares better with the 06. 30-06 / 7mm or 8mm, if that is the choice will go with the 06. it is importend to say this- you are considering two of the best hunting rifles ever build, while doing that why not go 300wm? it is above mentioned +20%. if you dont like the wm recoil build the ultimate nl a 300H&H. same recoil as the 270 but more speed than a 300wm.this calibre is a well cept secret of the african hunter. and dont forget the H&H allure __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans Last edited by lt dan; May 18, 2008 at 09:10 AM. Reason: add

May 18, 2008, 10:15 AM	#48
Huntergirl Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Wyoming Posts: 907	I have used both with great results, but am sticking mainly to the 30-06 because its not as loud as my 7mag, and I have tons of ammo for it.

May 18, 2008, 10:23 AM	#49
roy reali Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2005 Posts: 3,248	Do The Numbers http://benchrest.com/sst/sd.html Enter the same bullet weight for .308 diameter and .284 diameter. In any given bullet weight, at similar velocities and construction, the 7mm projectile will penetrate more then the 30 caliber one.

May 18, 2008, 10:27 AM	#50
Firepower! Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2008 Posts: 2,109	I would love to get a 300 or even 375 not to forget 700 nitro! That said, unfortunately these calibers are not available in Pakistan. Even when you find a rifle in those big bores you are out of luck for bullets. Recoil and noise are no problem. Today I did purchase a 7mm Mag. Now I want to scope it, and would like to know what is highest power scope best suit for this caliber? I might buy 30-06 as well in future as I have found one with engravings. Its German with some very strange name starting with O.