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June 24, 2010, 12:22 AM | #26 |
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Join Date: June 16, 2010
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 90
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Not in a anti-gun city or a city with a high crime rate. NOPD doesn't exactly have a good reputation considering federal charges were filed but only a month ago. We change chiefs so much i don't even know what to think.
Go ahead and exercise your rights, if you have the money to buy your freedom. Without a private lawyer you are better off not even using self-defense. Sad reality, but i know what i've seen inside the Orleans prison system. I will never open carry, or defend myself, or have a gun anywhere outside of my home or the shooting range trips. I almost got stuck in Jail for months. |
June 24, 2010, 12:33 AM | #27 | |
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Sorry your experiences in NO have been so hostile. My experiences in Ohio, including Columbus and around even Dayton which is not exactly low crime, have been very satisfactory. It takes a few people pushing social limits for those limits to change. I think the reason OC'ers in Ohio now meet so little resistance outside of a few well known and legally besieged municipalities is that a few people did most of the heavy lifting on LEO awareness shortly after OC/CCW became legal by challenging law enforcement in the way these two did. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; June 24, 2010 at 12:42 AM. |
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June 24, 2010, 12:57 AM | #28 |
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Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
Posts: 1,562
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All I can say is WOW!:barf::barf::barf:
Maybe if they wrote the laws like the Dick and Jan books the people that need to understand them and enforce them could???? |
June 24, 2010, 07:56 AM | #29 |
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Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
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"Not in a anti-gun city or a city with a high crime rate."
Think again. There have been numerous stops of Virginians who are open carrying in BOTH anti-gun cities AND high crime areas. Your problem appears to be that you are attempting this in what is widely regarded as the city with the nation's most corrupt police department.
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"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower. |
June 24, 2010, 08:58 AM | #30 |
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Join Date: June 24, 2009
Location: Michigan
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http://www.opencarry.com is a website for Open Carriers. You can find stories listed by state. MI currently has over 77,000 posts and one thread that is over 300 pages long on just Open Carry experiences. The VAST majority (99%) of these experiences look something like this: "OC'd in Wal-Mart, Gas Station, McDonalds for lunch, then took the dog for a walk. No issues." Every once in a while you get something weird like Mawetta is describing, but those issues are always resolved in court and end up on the side of the defendant. Even with that, not a single person has ever spent anytime in jail or had to pay a bond (that I know of) for anything brought about as a result of legally Open Carrying a firearm.
Does that mean everyone should open carry? Absolutely not. Does that mean that the police and general public are learning that gun owners aren't a bunch of crazy redneck Hutaree members out looking to vigilante the city into submission? Read some of the stories about positive police encounters. Even some in Detroit. |
June 24, 2010, 09:29 AM | #31 | ||||
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Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
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The carriers should contact their local association(s) for some legal assistance. They could get their letter of apology and force some changes in that department in lieu of a full blown §1983 suit in Federal court. They could even suggest that alternative is acceptable as a "learning situation" for the ASSt. Chief as well as for the rest of the force. Personal Opinion - Buckmaster is the kind of cop who is used to using intimidation and threats of illegal actions to get what he wants. As evidenced by his statements, HE has a problem with citizens carrying guns - most likely because he believes it's a special privilege of badge holders. He's gonna do what he wants to, regardless of the law or civil rights (sounds somewhat like a criminal, no?) and use intimidation, harrassment and threats to do it. He invites the citizens to sue him because he doesn't believe their "mumbo jumbo". Not only should they sue him, they stand a good chance of showing that as an Asst. Chief he should have known his actions were flagrant civil rights violations -- stripping him of any legal protections against being sued individually. Once he loses his house it'll put PD's on notice that running roughshod over people's rights won't be tolerated. And losing that kind of suit makes him inelegible for most LEO positions in the future too. If the Chief doesn't at least restrict him to clerical duties for six months, the Chief - who said he is "not going to second-guess my officers on the street" should be censured by the city counsel for failing in HIS duties.
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BillCA in CA (Unfortunately) |
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June 24, 2010, 09:58 AM | #32 |
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Join Date: November 2, 2008
Location: Wethersfield, ct
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If you want some interesting reading do a search for "James Goldberg in Ct" and see whta he went through with local and State police who did not know the law and were arrogant to boot. He is sitting on a legal settlement with the State as I write this. I know James and his family personally and they went through a great deal of misery with this. It is a education to read.
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June 24, 2010, 10:06 AM | #33 | |
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June 24, 2010, 10:14 AM | #34 |
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Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
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BillCA, I agree completely! I listened to the audio again this morning and it just got my blood boiling!
LEO's can't be allowed to just make up the laws the way that they see fit and only if it helps their situation! This NEEDS to be a lesson for this department and others like it! More and more I feel as though we are all in a police state and can't "really" live freely in any way due to these revenuer's that feel they are above the rest of us! I am not anti LEO's in any way even though it may sound like it. I have a number of friends that are police officers. It is the ones that abuse the system to no end that rub me the wrong way! They need to remember we DO have rights? |
June 24, 2010, 10:58 AM | #35 |
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Join Date: October 21, 2009
Location: Quadling Country
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I see stories like this posted all the time sans audio tape.
The police have a little problem in that they want to keep the public safe but are often not skilled enough to properly recognize threats. For example in this situation something that has been often brought up is that they could have been mass shooters. Number of mass shooters operating as a pair and open carrying nationwide in the US = zero to date. After a two minute chat it should have been 100% apparent that they were not a threat at all. But if you are the deputy police chief how do you back down from trying to control the situation? Your ego won't allow it. He then compounded his error by lying to cover his butt. Something more common in public service these days than hamburgers.
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June 24, 2010, 01:08 PM | #36 |
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Join Date: June 16, 2010
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 90
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My friend was put in handcuffs for around 30 minutes over a toy gun, with an orange Muzzle! He had to wait in handcuffs until a high ranking officer came out to release him. - Hammond Louisiana.
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June 24, 2010, 07:25 PM | #37 |
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Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
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My friend was put in handcuffs for around 30 minutes over a toy gun, with an orange Muzzle! He had to wait in handcuffs until a high ranking officer came out to release him. - Hammond Louisiana.
What a shame!! No need to remind me to stay out of NOLA and all of LA, along w/ IL and Wisconsin. I hope the fellows from Marysville, MI sue for all they can!! |
June 25, 2010, 02:42 AM | #38 | |
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Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
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Obviously LEOs do have a safety concern and it would be prudent to tell the O/C'ers to keep their hands away from their weapons "and we'll get along fine." 98% should understand that. The obstinate 2% who don't will learn why it's a good idea.¹ Anytime a LEO encounters someone doing "the unusual" that is not harming anyone or anything and they start citing statutes, case law or questioning under which statute they'll be charged, the immediate next question is "are you advocating or protesting something?" This usually gives them a chance to "impress" you with their knowledge (right or wrong) and disclose their purpose. If they claim they're "just exercising their rights" you can ask them to "enlighten" you. This can be an interesting and polite discourse. In some instances, the LEO can tell them either to go on their way OR inform them that some other statute applies² [if it does] and give them a chance to "correct" their behavior. Of course, for this to happen, the officer has to be comfortable enough that the people he's talking to are not attempting to either "catch him off guard" or "set him up" for some kind of legal action. And too many "activists" seem to go to great lengths in asking stupid, annoying or momentarily irrelevant questions, IMO. In the case at hand, the Asst. Chief opened himself and his department to some serious civil rights claims. I hope he feels silly sitting in an academy class with recruits learning the principles of the constitution. ¹ Face it - if you don't understand why, you shouldn't be carrying. If you understand and claim it's your right to do as you please by putting your hand on/near the gun, just remember the phrase "Life is tough when you're stupid". ² In some states, a city's muni code might cover having firearms around carnivals, county fairs and the like. Or it may be that guns are prohibited in city/county parks as part of the "parks & recreation" code or "health & safety" code.
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June 26, 2010, 09:16 PM | #39 |
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Posts: 3,057
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These cops should be out of the job IMO. They were completely rude from the start, and you can tell they are just on a power trip. He continued to openly admit he would make up a story and arrest the man for Disorderly conduct... WOW. If the chief heard this same audio tape, I would hope he had the common sense to take their badges right there. Unfortunately a lot of police departments are a "good ol' boys club" and they will get a slap on the wrist.
People wonder why citizens are coming more and more wary of police officers... I know there are a FEW good ones out there, and my heart goes out to you.... but some of your fellow officers are the last people I would want to protect and serve me.... |
June 26, 2010, 11:09 PM | #40 |
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Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
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There's no doubt the Asst. Chief here was way in the wrong. And, if I were the chief, I would have those complaint forms available and order the Asst. Chief apologize. The Asst. Chief is open to liability and the city possibly possibly exposed to liability by failing to provide training and/or take corrective action.
This does provide a good lesson for anyone engaged in lawful conduct that some officer might not like -- have a tape recorder handy and turn it on (assuming this doesn't violate any state eavesdropping statute). |
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