9mm SD ammo: School me - Page 3

jmr40 · July 26, 2015, 08:03 PM

I use 124 gr +p. If speed didn't matter the 357 mag would've never been developed because the 38 wasn't getting the job done. Exactly which brand doesn't matter much, but I got a deal on 500 rounds of Speer Gold Dots a few years ago. I shoot them sparingly and use them as my carry load. I get 1250 fps from a 4" G-19. That is within 50 fps of standard 125 gr 357 mag loads from 4" barrels. Recoil is barely noticeable compared to non +P loads and a lot less than 357 mag loads.

Cheapshooter · July 26, 2015, 08:34 PM

All performance arguments aside, because I really don't think it matters with any modern, SD ammo, I'll answer the recoil question with my opinion.
I carry Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P Short Barrel in my Kahr CM9. I will admit that recoil is something that rarely concerns me so my opinion may not be valid, or equal to yours. But to me, I notice very little, if any difference with the Gold Dot+P, and any WWB, Remington, or other standard pressure fmj range ammo.
But I guess if someone is very sensitive to recoil, they might tell a difference.

Tucker 1371 · July 26, 2015, 09:55 PM

I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive but probably my main motivation for getting a 9mm was the difference in my shot recovery time versus .40 and .45 and I would like to maximize that by not using +P ammo.

Just bought 100 rounds of 124gr HST on Gunbroker, I overpaid just a hair ($1.30/round) but it's better than not having any.

Cyanide971 · July 26, 2015, 10:15 PM

I have a pretty good stockpile of 135gr Critical Duty, 124gr HST, and 147gr XTP, and all in standard pressure loadings.

I shoot A LOT of Critical Duty and HST and just from my personal experience, the Hornady is slightly more accurate and, has less report and recoil than the HST. It really is a soft shooting round and after shooting a bunch of the CD first (and/or XTP), when moving to the HST it seems like I am shooting a +P in comparison lol.

That being said however, if I was carrying a short barrel pistol similar to what ShootingTheBull410 uses in his tests, HST is the first choice I would use, followed by (in no particular order) Critical Defense, Cor Bon DPX, or Winchester Defend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tucker 1371

Negative on both of those. SG shows both of them out of stock and I can't find either brand in the 124gr weight at ammunition depot.

Give it time, they'll have 'em back in stock. They always seem to magically have them in stock the majority of the time. Ya may wanna try some of the Hornady Critical Duty out Tucker...

Sequins · July 27, 2015, 12:59 AM

Find out what your local PD is using and use the exact same round.

I believe in Masaad Ayoob and others who have trial experience when they say that non-standard weapons and ammunition are not what you want when the time comes to stand accountable.

Hand loads or custom pistol work might imply that you intended to use your equipment to kill, per-meditating the inevitable lethal usage of the weapon and ammunition. A hollowpoint you load yourself might be a weapon of mass destruction designed to cause damage beyond what was necessary to stop the threat, implying malice on behalf of the shooter. I know that stuff is a wild card and anything can happen in court but I personally want to carry a gun that looks "normal" and which shoots "normal" ammunition. My plan in court would be to say that I didn't want to kill anyone I just wanted to protect myself and I looked to law enforcement for guidance on the best way to do so.

In Seattle, WA that's 124gr Speer Gold Dot. I also recommend a nickel or stainless finish so your gun is light colored. Much like a western where you knew he was a good guy because he had a white hat I think stainless/nickel/tribal rainbow/girl pink color guns imply goodguy status.

Brotherbadger · July 27, 2015, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Personally, I use 147gr Federal HSTs (standard pressure).

Same, although I've had to buy +P recently, as standard pressure had been impossible to find.

Sharkbite · July 27, 2015, 11:06 AM

Quote:

I also recommend a nickel or stainless finish so your gun is light colored. Much like a western where you knew he was a good guy because he had a white hat I think stainless/nickel/tribal rainbow/girl pink color guns imply goodguy status.

WHAT?!?!??!!???

I would LOVE to see some validation of that statement.

The hue of your pistol will have ZERO bearing on the legal out ome of your shooting. Save MAYBE, if you had a custom finish with the Grim Reaper and the slogan "I live to kill" emblazoned on the slide.

ANY standard finish or even a benign custom one will NEVER (big word) come up in a court

P5 Guy · July 27, 2015, 12:06 PM

Wouldn't using the exact same rounds as the local law enforcement get one labeled as a 'wanna be' cop?

Sharkbite · July 27, 2015, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Wouldn't using the exact same rounds as the local law enforcement get one labeled as a 'wanna be' cop?

More like a prudent shopper. The Local/State/Fed LE agencies have a much larger budget for testing and evaluation of ammo then you do. The FBI spends money like CRAZY in T&E of guns and ammo.

Take advantage of that knowledge base and money spent

Sequins · July 27, 2015, 04:02 PM

Sharkbite, remember that guy Harold Fish with the 10mm who went to prison on a good shoot pretty much exclusively because he had a scary looking bad guy gun? It's a court of opinion in all cases.

http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com...fense-and.html

Sharkbite · July 27, 2015, 04:16 PM

That case made a bug deal about the CALIBER and the AMMO chosen. It didnt mention the color of his gun.

It sounds like he had a crappy Lawyer. HP ammp has been the STANDARD ammo for LE for decades. That should not be hard to establish as the prudent choice in ammo. As for Caliber....come on. The FBI chose the 10mm as the best of breed in the '80s. Only excessive recoil made them change the issue pistol to a 40

The weapon used does not make a good shoot, bad. It can make a bad shoot worse and MIGHT color a iffy shoot in a neg light. But i dont think a black or brown gun will change squat

ETA... That is a poor example. Unarmed assailant shot by Defendant. Male on Male. No multiple attackers. The article didnt point out a huge disparity of force due to size. Hard to defend based on what the Defendent knew at the time. The gun/ammo was ancillary to the case

Gats Italian · July 27, 2015, 04:22 PM

147 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHPs are my choice. I'd rather rely on a little more mass than a little more velocity when it comes to adequate penetration by a JHP.

Tucker 1371 · July 27, 2015, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Find out what your local PD is using and use the exact same round.

Funny you should say that, I'm actually employed by the Sheriff's Office. I believe we are using HSTs in .40 S&W for our duty round. Not sure though, haven't graduated the academy yet.

Sequins · July 27, 2015, 10:08 PM

ED: I think this thread is about caliber more than gun color and my comments just dragged the thread off topic upon further consideration. Sorry!

Oysterboy · July 27, 2015, 10:11 PM

You know there's Pink, Lime Green, etc for the ladies.

July 26, 2015, 08:34 PM	#52
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	All performance arguments aside, because I really don't think it matters with any modern, SD ammo, I'll answer the recoil question with my opinion. I carry Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +P Short Barrel in my Kahr CM9. I will admit that recoil is something that rarely concerns me so my opinion may not be valid, or equal to yours. But to me, I notice very little, if any difference with the Gold Dot+P, and any WWB, Remington, or other standard pressure fmj range ammo. But I guess if someone is very sensitive to recoil, they might tell a difference. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

July 26, 2015, 09:55 PM	#53
Tucker 1371 Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2008 Location: East TN Posts: 2,649	I wouldn't consider myself recoil sensitive but probably my main motivation for getting a 9mm was the difference in my shot recovery time versus .40 and .45 and I would like to maximize that by not using +P ammo. Just bought 100 rounds of 124gr HST on Gunbroker, I overpaid just a hair ($1.30/round) but it's better than not having any. __________________ Sgt. of Marines, 5th Award Expert Rifle, 237/250 Expert Pistol, 382/400. D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! If you start a thread, be active in it. Don't leave us hanging. OEF 2011 Sangin, Afg. Molon Labe

July 27, 2015, 04:16 PM	#61
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	That case made a bug deal about the CALIBER and the AMMO chosen. It didnt mention the color of his gun. It sounds like he had a crappy Lawyer. HP ammp has been the STANDARD ammo for LE for decades. That should not be hard to establish as the prudent choice in ammo. As for Caliber....come on. The FBI chose the 10mm as the best of breed in the '80s. Only excessive recoil made them change the issue pistol to a 40 The weapon used does not make a good shoot, bad. It can make a bad shoot worse and MIGHT color a iffy shoot in a neg light. But i dont think a black or brown gun will change squat ETA... That is a poor example. Unarmed assailant shot by Defendant. Male on Male. No multiple attackers. The article didnt point out a huge disparity of force due to size. Hard to defend based on what the Defendent knew at the time. The gun/ammo was ancillary to the case Last edited by Sharkbite; July 27, 2015 at 04:25 PM.

July 27, 2015, 04:22 PM	#62
Gats Italian Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 2008 Posts: 451	147 gr. Speer Gold Dot JHPs are my choice. I'd rather rely on a little more mass than a little more velocity when it comes to adequate penetration by a JHP. __________________ Leave the gun, take the cannoli.

July 27, 2015, 10:08 PM	#64
Sequins Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2014 Posts: 394	ED: I think this thread is about caliber more than gun color and my comments just dragged the thread off topic upon further consideration. Sorry! Last edited by Sequins; July 27, 2015 at 11:17 PM.

July 26, 2015, 08:03 PM	#51
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,808	I use 124 gr +p. If speed didn't matter the 357 mag would've never been developed because the 38 wasn't getting the job done. Exactly which brand doesn't matter much, but I got a deal on 500 rounds of Speer Gold Dots a few years ago. I shoot them sparingly and use them as my carry load. I get 1250 fps from a 4" G-19. That is within 50 fps of standard 125 gr 357 mag loads from 4" barrels. Recoil is barely noticeable compared to non +P loads and a lot less than 357 mag loads.

July 27, 2015, 12:59 AM	#55
Sequins Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2014 Posts: 394	Find out what your local PD is using and use the exact same round. I believe in Masaad Ayoob and others who have trial experience when they say that non-standard weapons and ammunition are not what you want when the time comes to stand accountable. Hand loads or custom pistol work might imply that you intended to use your equipment to kill, per-meditating the inevitable lethal usage of the weapon and ammunition. A hollowpoint you load yourself might be a weapon of mass destruction designed to cause damage beyond what was necessary to stop the threat, implying malice on behalf of the shooter. I know that stuff is a wild card and anything can happen in court but I personally want to carry a gun that looks "normal" and which shoots "normal" ammunition. My plan in court would be to say that I didn't want to kill anyone I just wanted to protect myself and I looked to law enforcement for guidance on the best way to do so. In Seattle, WA that's 124gr Speer Gold Dot. I also recommend a nickel or stainless finish so your gun is light colored. Much like a western where you knew he was a good guy because he had a white hat I think stainless/nickel/tribal rainbow/girl pink color guns imply goodguy status.

July 27, 2015, 12:06 PM	#58
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Wouldn't using the exact same rounds as the local law enforcement get one labeled as a 'wanna be' cop?

July 27, 2015, 04:02 PM	#60
Sequins Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2014 Posts: 394	Sharkbite, remember that guy Harold Fish with the 10mm who went to prison on a good shoot pretty much exclusively because he had a scary looking bad guy gun? It's a court of opinion in all cases. http://defensivehandgun.blogspot.com...fense-and.html

July 27, 2015, 10:11 PM	#65
Oysterboy Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 970	You know there's Pink, Lime Green, etc for the ladies.