Locked up Smith (not the ILS)

Lost Sheep · August 2, 2010, 01:42 AM

My friend and I came back from the range today very disappointed. His Smith & Wesson X-Frame would not open the cylinder. The cylinder release would not budge one iota. It was like it was welded in place.

We are pretty sure it is not caused by the ejection rod unscrewing. We tried to hold the rod still while rotating the cylinder and it stayed firmly in synch with the cylinder.

We turned the Internal Lock on and off and it functioned normally, locking and unlocking the action as designed.

The hammer, trigger, cylinder rotation all worked normally. Just the cylinder release would not budge. We rapped gently on it, but it still did not move. We did not have the proper screwdrivers with us to open up the gun.

We will take another look at it later.

The last time he checked the gun, it functioned completely normally.

I am stumped.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for reading.

Lost Sheep

Glenn Dee · August 2, 2010, 04:28 AM

Check the Ejection rod. A unscrewed ejection rod can gause the cylinder release latch to freeze up.

MrBorland · August 2, 2010, 05:57 AM

I'm thinking cylinder bolt.

The hammer stop on the back of the cylinder bolt (to which the cylinder release is attached) just barely clears the hammer when the hammer's in its normal rebounded position (see pics in links).

You say the action cycles normally, eh? If the hammer is returning to its normal position (worth checking), one possibility is that the hammer block is bent and hitting the hammer. Or the bolt/hammer stop is fine, and the hammer's too far back.

The cylinder bolt may be bent or bound some other way as well. Maybe something (dirt or other) got in there and is binding the bolt.

Time to take the plate off, it seems.

Let us know what you find.

cylinder bolt/hammer stop (4th pic):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....81&postcount=7

Hammer stop/hammer (3rd pic):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....50&postcount=1

Lost Sheep · August 3, 2010, 01:31 AM

Glenn Dee, I don't think it is the ejector rod unscrewing. We tried holding it still while rotating the cylinder and the rod moved with the cylinder. If it were loose, I expect we could get it to screw back in that way.

Not knowing if it is right-hand or left-hand threads, we tried it both directions. No go.

MrBorland, thanks for the pictures and descriptions. We haven't been able to investigate yet, but soon. Something getting in one of those tracks could certainly produce this jam.

Lost Sheep

MrBorland · August 3, 2010, 05:42 AM

The ejector rod threads are left handed. It'd tighten up if you were to hold the rod and cycle the action.

Before pulling the side plate, try removing the cylinder release latch and inspecting underneath to be sure something isn't binding under the latch itself.

If you've not removed a side plate before, be aware there's a proper way to do it. Here's the link to the complete disassembly thread.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=397027

batmann · August 3, 2010, 09:48 AM

One other quick thought, my .44 M Smith locked up in a very similar way, turned out it was some grit from unburned powder under the ejection star. I don't kow how to open the cylinder to find out other than take it to a gunsmith.

Paul105 · August 3, 2010, 02:01 PM

I had something similar happen to a S&W 396. It turned out that the center pin had a burr on the collar. The burr caused the center pin to become wedged in the extractor -- everything else worked except the thumb piece. Some how I managed to get the gun open and disassembled the ejector/extractor and removed the burr.

I would definitely remove the side plate to see if anything seems out of place before going further.

August 2, 2010, 01:42 AM	#1
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Locked up Smith (not the ILS) My friend and I came back from the range today very disappointed. His Smith & Wesson X-Frame would not open the cylinder. The cylinder release would not budge one iota. It was like it was welded in place. We are pretty sure it is not caused by the ejection rod unscrewing. We tried to hold the rod still while rotating the cylinder and it stayed firmly in synch with the cylinder. We turned the Internal Lock on and off and it functioned normally, locking and unlocking the action as designed. The hammer, trigger, cylinder rotation all worked normally. Just the cylinder release would not budge. We rapped gently on it, but it still did not move. We did not have the proper screwdrivers with us to open up the gun. We will take another look at it later. The last time he checked the gun, it functioned completely normally. I am stumped. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks for reading. Lost Sheep

August 3, 2010, 01:31 AM	#4
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Thanks Glenn Dee, I don't think it is the ejector rod unscrewing. We tried holding it still while rotating the cylinder and the rod moved with the cylinder. If it were loose, I expect we could get it to screw back in that way. Not knowing if it is right-hand or left-hand threads, we tried it both directions. No go. MrBorland, thanks for the pictures and descriptions. We haven't been able to investigate yet, but soon. Something getting in one of those tracks could certainly produce this jam. Lost Sheep

August 2, 2010, 04:28 AM	#2
Glenn Dee Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,560	Check the Ejection rod. A unscrewed ejection rod can gause the cylinder release latch to freeze up.

August 2, 2010, 05:57 AM	#3
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	I'm thinking cylinder bolt. The hammer stop on the back of the cylinder bolt (to which the cylinder release is attached) just barely clears the hammer when the hammer's in its normal rebounded position (see pics in links). You say the action cycles normally, eh? If the hammer is returning to its normal position (worth checking), one possibility is that the hammer block is bent and hitting the hammer. Or the bolt/hammer stop is fine, and the hammer's too far back. The cylinder bolt may be bent or bound some other way as well. Maybe something (dirt or other) got in there and is binding the bolt. Time to take the plate off, it seems. Let us know what you find. cylinder bolt/hammer stop (4th pic): http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....81&postcount=7 Hammer stop/hammer (3rd pic): http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....50&postcount=1

August 3, 2010, 05:42 AM	#5
MrBorland Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2007 Location: NC Posts: 2,614	The ejector rod threads are left handed. It'd tighten up if you were to hold the rod and cycle the action. Before pulling the side plate, try removing the cylinder release latch and inspecting underneath to be sure something isn't binding under the latch itself. If you've not removed a side plate before, be aware there's a proper way to do it. Here's the link to the complete disassembly thread. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=397027

August 3, 2010, 09:48 AM	#6
batmann Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2004 Location: Greenwood, IN Posts: 773	One other quick thought, my .44 M Smith locked up in a very similar way, turned out it was some grit from unburned powder under the ejection star. I don't kow how to open the cylinder to find out other than take it to a gunsmith.

August 3, 2010, 02:01 PM	#7
Paul105 Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 343	I had something similar happen to a S&W 396. It turned out that the center pin had a burr on the collar. The burr caused the center pin to become wedged in the extractor -- everything else worked except the thumb piece. Some how I managed to get the gun open and disassembled the ejector/extractor and removed the burr. I would definitely remove the side plate to see if anything seems out of place before going further.