BHN?

swampy308 · March 1, 2015, 02:14 AM

Will lead with BHN of 9 be good for 38 special & 357 mag loads? I've never cast my own or even tried lead bullits. New to casting and need a little help getting started to see if i'm on the rite track. Thanks a lot.

tangolima · March 1, 2015, 02:38 AM

I think it is a bit too soft, especially for the magnum.

-TL

Mike / Tx · March 1, 2015, 06:17 AM

Welcome to the hobby, I say hobby it is more like the Guild though as you will find out once you get fired up and going.

.

To start with I can only suggest that you do plenty of reading up on things before you start, this way you will know what your looking for, what to expect, and what your seeing when you see it. I know that sounds somewhat vague, but as you go along you will understand as things WILL come up that you have no idea why they did that. As such, here is a link which has a TON of info on it which is divided up in a good easy to follow format.
index to all of the articles/authors and handloading pages on lasc.us

On this site it has most of these articles posted in a PDF format as well so you can download them and save them to your PC or print them out into a very nice handbook for future reference. I found a large handbook in a 3-ring binder at work which was being trashed. It had a bunch of dividers in it already so I junked all of the stuff that was there and printed the Fryxell book and a lot of the other items and put them in it for quick reference. It has helped out enough times to have already made it worth it.

Ok ok back to your OP, the answer is yes and no...

First things first, your going to find out that with cast things sort of run like a deck of cards, Fit is King, Lube is Queen, and the other components fall in line after that. If your barrel is smooth, and you have a good fit you can fun softer alloy faster than if otherwise. However, your lube must also be up to the task as well. Most are but not all. Hardness is a bit overrated until you get up into trying to run cast in rifles at jacketed speeds. It is the pressure under them which sets the give and take.

If your loading soft cast in your 357 with a high pressure load, then no the soft stuff isn't going to handle it. However there are loads in which the pressure isn't quite as harsh that will allow it. So it is a balancing act, of which alloy you can run at what pressures. Then you have to have a lube which will handled all of that as well.

Personally I use the White Label Lubes, they are great lubes and don't cost a small fortune. I use both their Xlox 45/45/10 blend and their Carnube Red. The former for loads running up to around 1000fps in all calibers and the latter for everything else. That said I use the 45/45/10 in my 454 loads with GC'ed straight air cooled wheel weight, and have no issues up to around 1600fps.

Anyway, if you read through the link above and those which it lists you will get a much better handle on where your going as well as where you will need to be once you get going. There is also plenty of info in there for blending your alloy up a little harder and what results will or should be before you start. This sort of info is good as with most blending you need to start in small amounts and move up slow. Sometimes adding a little of this, can change a LOT of that. When you start to blend an alloy keep detailed notes. Write down everything from the amounts your using of each component, to the temp at which you smelt it all together and in which order you added things to the pot. Trust me when I say, it really sucks to blend up something great, then seven to nine weeks later when you test it and find out it is great, not be able to remember what you put into it, and have to start all over. Also try your best to keep things simple as you can, you don't want to have to purchase tin, or antimony, if you don't absolutely have to. If you can scrounge up some 95-5 or similar solder that works great. Antimony and/or arsenic can both be found in chilled shot and neither takes a lot to harden up a softer lead. But it is a test and see thing, so remember a little at a time.

One more thing before this needs a second post to continue,

If you try out your alloy and DO find you need to make it harder, and you have read the info above and find it somewhat confusing. Over on the Castboolits site, look down to the Lead and Lead Alloys forum. In there you will find a bunch of sticky topics. One of them is titled Alloy Calculators. Go there and download the one posted by Bumpo. It will help you to work up a decent alloy. It uses pounds for all of the calculations so you might need to bring up your calculator and I also use a freeware program called "Convert" which helps to break everything down from pounds to ounces so I can weight it up once I am finish with the alloy I want.

GP100man · March 1, 2015, 08:36 PM

I can run bhn9 in my guns to 900fps, much more & I get stripping.

Start low & go until ya get strippin. Good fit is a must , as mentioned a good lube doesn't hurt either.

swampy308 · March 2, 2015, 12:39 AM

What I want to do is create some lite loads for my wife's 38 special Ruger LCR so it doesn't hurt her, so she can shoot more.

Mike / Tx · March 2, 2015, 06:55 PM

Should be fine using something like Bullseye or Unique under that alloy and sticking with standard 38SPL type loads.

I myself am getting ready to load up a big ol batch of 146gr DEWC's I poured up for the same purpose. I will be running them over about 3.5grs of BE for somewhere around 750'ish FPS. Should make for a nice target load out of the 38.

FrankenMauser · March 2, 2015, 07:52 PM

Although I'm a frequent advocate of running alloys of COWW or softer in just about anything...
I don't think I would push BHN 9 with full power .357 Mag loads.

.38 Special moderate loads... yea.
.357 Mag light loads (mid-level .38 equivalency)... yea.

"Full House"? No.

swampy308 · March 3, 2015, 01:30 AM

Light loads are exactly what I'm wanting to achieve for her 38, and I'll have to try some in my 357 black hawk as well.
I've been reading alot here and on cast boolits site for a couple months now, I ordered the lyman big casting pot kit, and 125,140, & 158 gr. Lee 2 cavity molds. I also ordered a thermometer, and 1 in 25 lead with BHN 9 from Roto-metals. Going to try this new hobby as soon as I can, working alot of overtime now, and when I get this figured out i'll start on my 45 acp.
A big THANKS to all of you, and more information is appreciated.

mikld · March 4, 2015, 12:11 PM

It'll fine if the bullet is sized to fit the gun (measure the cylinder throats and size the bullet to the same diameter). I have personal fired some 10-11 BHN air cooled 160 gr. SWC, plain base, over an over max. charge of True Blue with no leading in 12 shots. Guesstamate of 1300+ fps. No leading because they fit the gun...

Axelwik · March 4, 2015, 03:04 PM

As others have stated, size matters the most, then lube, and then hardness (to a point). It also depends on what you're after. For example, when casting hollowpoints for magnum velocities I cast soft, but use a gas check.

Here's one of my cast hollowpoints that was shot into a soft berm about an hour ago. It's a Lyman Devastator HP in 44. About 1/4 linotype and 3/4 pure lead. Gun was a S&W 69 with a 4-1/4" barrel.

swampy308 · March 7, 2015, 01:06 AM

I can't wait to get started on this, I feel like it's the night before deer season, looking like I'm going to have to take a couple days off of work.
I also need to try to find me some lead, been asking around, butt no luck yet.

trapper9260 · March 9, 2015, 11:21 AM

I see it was not stated that there is 2 type of boolit you have GC (gas check ) and PB (plain base). what you can do with one and get away with is different then the other.It is best to get the Lyman 3rd Ed cast book and read it and you will see how it all works and also like stated go to the site of cast boolit and you will find alot of info in there about just cast boolit.As for lead check you recycle yards that buy scrape iron and copper and also other metals see if any of them sell soft lead.WW there is too much waste for me I stick mainly with soft lead.If I had WW given to me I will take it but will not buy it now for the mix of zinc in it and then the junk you have to deal with.

March 1, 2015, 02:14 AM	#1
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	BHN? Will lead with BHN of 9 be good for 38 special & 357 mag loads? I've never cast my own or even tried lead bullits. New to casting and need a little help getting started to see if i'm on the rite track. Thanks a lot.

March 1, 2015, 06:17 AM	#3
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Welcome to the hobby, I say hobby it is more like the Guild though as you will find out once you get fired up and going. . To start with I can only suggest that you do plenty of reading up on things before you start, this way you will know what your looking for, what to expect, and what your seeing when you see it. I know that sounds somewhat vague, but as you go along you will understand as things WILL come up that you have no idea why they did that. As such, here is a link which has a TON of info on it which is divided up in a good easy to follow format. index to all of the articles/authors and handloading pages on lasc.us On this site it has most of these articles posted in a PDF format as well so you can download them and save them to your PC or print them out into a very nice handbook for future reference. I found a large handbook in a 3-ring binder at work which was being trashed. It had a bunch of dividers in it already so I junked all of the stuff that was there and printed the Fryxell book and a lot of the other items and put them in it for quick reference. It has helped out enough times to have already made it worth it. Ok ok back to your OP, the answer is yes and no... First things first, your going to find out that with cast things sort of run like a deck of cards, Fit is King, Lube is Queen, and the other components fall in line after that. If your barrel is smooth, and you have a good fit you can fun softer alloy faster than if otherwise. However, your lube must also be up to the task as well. Most are but not all. Hardness is a bit overrated until you get up into trying to run cast in rifles at jacketed speeds. It is the pressure under them which sets the give and take. If your loading soft cast in your 357 with a high pressure load, then no the soft stuff isn't going to handle it. However there are loads in which the pressure isn't quite as harsh that will allow it. So it is a balancing act, of which alloy you can run at what pressures. Then you have to have a lube which will handled all of that as well. Personally I use the White Label Lubes, they are great lubes and don't cost a small fortune. I use both their Xlox 45/45/10 blend and their Carnube Red. The former for loads running up to around 1000fps in all calibers and the latter for everything else. That said I use the 45/45/10 in my 454 loads with GC'ed straight air cooled wheel weight, and have no issues up to around 1600fps. Anyway, if you read through the link above and those which it lists you will get a much better handle on where your going as well as where you will need to be once you get going. There is also plenty of info in there for blending your alloy up a little harder and what results will or should be before you start. This sort of info is good as with most blending you need to start in small amounts and move up slow. Sometimes adding a little of this, can change a LOT of that. When you start to blend an alloy keep detailed notes. Write down everything from the amounts your using of each component, to the temp at which you smelt it all together and in which order you added things to the pot. Trust me when I say, it really sucks to blend up something great, then seven to nine weeks later when you test it and find out it is great, not be able to remember what you put into it, and have to start all over. Also try your best to keep things simple as you can, you don't want to have to purchase tin, or antimony, if you don't absolutely have to. If you can scrounge up some 95-5 or similar solder that works great. Antimony and/or arsenic can both be found in chilled shot and neither takes a lot to harden up a softer lead. But it is a test and see thing, so remember a little at a time. One more thing before this needs a second post to continue, If you try out your alloy and DO find you need to make it harder, and you have read the info above and find it somewhat confusing. Over on the Castboolits site, look down to the Lead and Lead Alloys forum. In there you will find a bunch of sticky topics. One of them is titled Alloy Calculators. Go there and download the one posted by Bumpo. It will help you to work up a decent alloy. It uses pounds for all of the calculations so you might need to bring up your calculator and I also use a freeware program called "Convert" which helps to break everything down from pounds to ounces so I can weight it up once I am finish with the alloy I want. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

March 1, 2015, 08:36 PM	#4
GP100man Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2007 Location: Tabor City , NC. Posts: 1,969	I can run bhn9 in my guns to 900fps, much more & I get stripping. Start low & go until ya get strippin. Good fit is a must , as mentioned a good lube doesn't hurt either. __________________ GP100man

March 2, 2015, 06:55 PM	#6
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	Should be fine using something like Bullseye or Unique under that alloy and sticking with standard 38SPL type loads. I myself am getting ready to load up a big ol batch of 146gr DEWC's I poured up for the same purpose. I will be running them over about 3.5grs of BE for somewhere around 750'ish FPS. Should make for a nice target load out of the 38. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

March 2, 2015, 07:52 PM	#7
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Although I'm a frequent advocate of running alloys of COWW or softer in just about anything... I don't think I would push BHN 9 with full power .357 Mag loads. .38 Special moderate loads... yea. .357 Mag light loads (mid-level .38 equivalency)... yea. "Full House"? No. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

March 1, 2015, 02:38 AM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,827	I think it is a bit too soft, especially for the magnum. -TL

March 2, 2015, 12:39 AM	#5
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	What I want to do is create some lite loads for my wife's 38 special Ruger LCR so it doesn't hurt her, so she can shoot more.

March 3, 2015, 01:30 AM	#8
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	Light loads are exactly what I'm wanting to achieve for her 38, and I'll have to try some in my 357 black hawk as well. I've been reading alot here and on cast boolits site for a couple months now, I ordered the lyman big casting pot kit, and 125,140, & 158 gr. Lee 2 cavity molds. I also ordered a thermometer, and 1 in 25 lead with BHN 9 from Roto-metals. Going to try this new hobby as soon as I can, working alot of overtime now, and when I get this figured out i'll start on my 45 acp. A big THANKS to all of you, and more information is appreciated.

March 4, 2015, 12:11 PM	#9
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	It'll fine if the bullet is sized to fit the gun (measure the cylinder throats and size the bullet to the same diameter). I have personal fired some 10-11 BHN air cooled 160 gr. SWC, plain base, over an over max. charge of True Blue with no leading in 12 shots. Guesstamate of 1300+ fps. No leading because they fit the gun... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

March 4, 2015, 03:04 PM	#10
Axelwik Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2012 Location: Land of Enchantment Posts: 436	As others have stated, size matters the most, then lube, and then hardness (to a point). It also depends on what you're after. For example, when casting hollowpoints for magnum velocities I cast soft, but use a gas check. Here's one of my cast hollowpoints that was shot into a soft berm about an hour ago. It's a Lyman Devastator HP in 44. About 1/4 linotype and 3/4 pure lead. Gun was a S&W 69 with a 4-1/4" barrel. Last edited by Axelwik; March 4, 2015 at 03:10 PM.

March 7, 2015, 01:06 AM	#11
swampy308 Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Posts: 93	I can't wait to get started on this, I feel like it's the night before deer season, looking like I'm going to have to take a couple days off of work. I also need to try to find me some lead, been asking around, butt no luck yet.

March 9, 2015, 11:21 AM	#12
trapper9260 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Iowa Posts: 119	I see it was not stated that there is 2 type of boolit you have GC (gas check ) and PB (plain base). what you can do with one and get away with is different then the other.It is best to get the Lyman 3rd Ed cast book and read it and you will see how it all works and also like stated go to the site of cast boolit and you will find alot of info in there about just cast boolit.As for lead check you recycle yards that buy scrape iron and copper and also other metals see if any of them sell soft lead.WW there is too much waste for me I stick mainly with soft lead.If I had WW given to me I will take it but will not buy it now for the mix of zinc in it and then the junk you have to deal with.