New to Sporting Guns, HELP

OverUnder1984 · May 29, 2009, 04:24 PM

I am currently serving overseas with US Army and got into skeet and trap just before I deployed. I know the basics about over under guns, but not enough to select one for myself, as I used the range's guns. Here is what I a looking to do: shoot both Skeet and Trap and possibly bird hunt (with friends). I was looking at Beretta and Browning over under guns and am willing to spend up to $4000. I am about 6'1", 190lbs. Any advice as to barrel length, chamber size, adjustable comb, and anything else you can think of would be helpful.

Also, can I shoot a 2 3/4" round out of a gun chambered for 3" ?

Tatsumi67 · May 29, 2009, 04:28 PM

Yes, a 3" chamber gun can shoot 2 3/4" shells

hogdogs · May 29, 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

willing to spend up to $4000

Well GEESH... not much chance of sellin this guy on any of the mossbergs

Seriously I hope these guys send you lookin for a keeper. Did I mention a "keeper"... starts with a "K"... I bet you find a goodin'!
Thanks for servin'...
Brent

BigJimP · May 29, 2009, 07:05 PM

Thank you for your Service.....

The most versatile O/U in the Browning Citori lineup, in my opinion - is the Citori XS Skeet model with the adjustable comb. Here is a link to the model..

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...13&type_id=066

The gun has very good balance / nice wood on most of them - and is a gun that will easily last you 100,000 shells or more (I've frankly never worn one out ). If you purchase some extended chokes for it ( and I recommend 2 Skeet, 2 Improved Cyclinder, 2 Mod, 1 Improved Mod, 1 Full ) - and I like the Browning Midas Grade or the Diana grade ( so it's another $ 500 for the chokes you'll need ) and a nice Browning take down hard case for about $ 175 - I think you are all set and under your budget.

The XS Skeet is selling new for about $ 2,850 in my area. I like it with 30" barrels. It is my primary gun for Skeet, Sporting Clays and bird hunting. I do not use it for a dedicated Trap gun ( I go with the Browning XT with adj comb for Trap ) but at around 10 lbs its too heavy and clumsy for Skeet or hunting.

I think Browning gives you a lot of gun for the money. The parallel comb - with the adj comb in it / makes it a gun that can be adjusted to fit most anyone and that's the biggest plus of this model. Its my opinion, that guns with angled combs are a mistake for a general purpose gun / unless you know what stock dimensions exactly fit you - and you're prepared to pay for a truly custom stock on a custom gun ( like a Kolar, Krieghoff, Blaser or Perazzi ) and those are all way out of your budget range.

My XS Skeet models in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 - I shoot these guns all the time.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&d=1236031020

Here are my primary Trap guns ( Browning XT models, 32" barrels, one with a GraCoil system and upgraded wood ) / one is stock - both with adj combs.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...9&d=1243443556

The XS Skeet is also a gun that is very easy to sell / if you take care of it down the road / if you want something different. In my area used a good XS Skeet is selling for $ 2,600 easily these days in 12ga or 20ga / and there are some available in 28ga and .410 / they were special ordered by a number of dealers over the years ( the 28ga and .410 are built on the 20ga receiver in the XS Skeet ) and they're identical to the 20ga.

Take care.

oneounceload · May 29, 2009, 09:19 PM

TRY as many as you can - while Beretta and Browning, (and SKB), are all good guns, they have VERY different stock measurements......usually what feels good to you on one brand will not feel good on the other - doesn't mean one is bad, just different.Many guns can do what you seek - try the base gun club and see what is being used and try some of them.....once you have the basic gun, it can always be "tweaked" to suit you perfectly

zippy13 · May 30, 2009, 12:13 AM

Greetings OverUnder1984, welcome aboard and thank you for your service,

You're at a difficult point in the shooting sports. As you stated, you've shot enough to want a gun of your own. But, you lack the experience to evaluate various similar guns. You're not the first to be in this position. With past postings, I've recommend the shooter gain more experience before shelling out the big bucks.

A case on point:
BigJimP and I have been exchanging PMs with another new shooter who's in a position similar to yours. He's shot just enough to know that he really enjoys the shotgun sports, but not enough to know which ones he favors. For a while he's been looking at various new and used auto-loaders and O/Us. He contemplated several purchases while developing his short list. Some guns seemed to have a better natural feel to him than others. He finally decided on a pampered used gun, that was attractively priced, listed on his gun club's bulletin board. It's a general purpose quality O/U. It's not perfect for any one game, but it will allow him to shoot casually in all of the shooting sports. I call this a Phase I gun.

Eventually he'll probably favor one of the sports over the others and shoot it the majority of the time. As he gains experience in his sport of choice, he'll be able to identify the features that make a gun more suited to that sport. Eventually he'll come to a point where his improvement halts because of the limitations of his gun, where previously he'd been limited by his lack of experience. This is the time when it's appropriate to get a game specific shotgun, and he'll have the experience to properly evaluate his individual needs. I call this a Phase II gun. At this point, if he wishes, he'll probably be able to sell his Phase I gun for about what he paid for it. If he gets into serious competition, he may progress to a point where the Phase II gun becomes a limiting factor. He'll be ready for a custom comp unit, a Phase III gun. It will take the experience gained with his Phase II gun before he can establish his requirements in a custom comp gun. So it goes, each phase is a necessary prerequisite to the acquisition of the next. Otherwise you're just wasting your money paying for features you don't understand. And selecting the wrong features can actually impede your progress. In reality, the average casual shooter may never progress beyond a Phase I gun.

OverUnder1984, for now, I suggest you look for a general purpose O/U that fits you best. Follow oneounceload's advice and try as many guns as you can. Don't expect your first O/U to be a perfect all-around gun -- it doesn't exist. It's okay to spend less, and put aside some of your $$ for the Phase II gun.

Good luck, good shooting, and come home safely.
Pete

LordofWar · May 30, 2009, 10:16 AM

Beretta ALL the way.

Get a field gun because a specialized gun will serve only a single purpose and you want to do both skeet & trap.

Any Silver Pigeon (II-V) would serve the utility.

BigJimP · May 30, 2009, 10:20 AM

Despite my opinion of the Browning XS Skeet model - OneOunce and Zippy are right, try as many guns as you can.

Talk to the guys at your local club - about models, fit, etc - and you'll get a lot of info. I'd be surprised if a number of them won't let you put a few shells thru their guns so you can get a little feel for how they fit you.

A lot of guys have dozens of guns in their safes - but shoot primarily one or two guns / but they may have something you're interested in and be willing to bring a gun in just so you can try it. Buy them a couple boxes of shells, a cup of coffee or whatever for their trouble... I think you'll find a lot of guys are very helpful when they know you're serious about finding the right gun.

OverUnder1984 · May 30, 2009, 05:20 PM

Thank you for the advice. I think I will ask around to see if friends will let me check out, if not run a few rounds through their guns. I will be getting home (stationed in Alaska) from Iraq in early fall and hope to be able to have a gun of my own before it's -40. Thanks for the tips and pictures, you have helped me narrow my search and maybe even saved me some money.

I have only gotten in to shooting recently and over the past two years I have bought: H&K P2000 .40 (carry and HD), Springfield 1911 Loaded (because 1911s are great and it was what I could afford), 45-70 Marlin 1895G (BEARS) and a custom AR-15 free float target rifle.

sheepman · May 30, 2009, 08:21 PM

Like the others have said try as many different guns as possible. My experience with Browning has been good and have shot an SKB, you just need to try different guns and see what works for you, in your price range there are some quality guns available. Thanks for your service. Good luck :Bill

oneounceload · May 30, 2009, 08:58 PM

YIKES!....from 115 above to 40 below? I went from Houston to ND and that was bad enough!......

Seriously, hope it all goes your way, and I am sure that anyone at any gun club would be more than willing to let you try their gun.......happens all the time at my little club in the middle of BFE Florida, I'm sure it will be the same wherever you land.

Shoot, ask questions, shoot some more.

Remember, if a particular gun doesn't fit EXACTLY, but you feel it is right and it fits close......it can be tweaked to make it perfect.....

Welcome to the addiction!.......

olddrum1 · May 30, 2009, 11:04 PM

OK, heres my two cents worth. The advice that you have gotten is good advice but its stateside advice. What you may want to do is to check the availablity of what is over there. When I was overseas you could buy more Beretta for the money than Browning. What I am saying is, on your way home you don't have a stop over in say Italy. It might behoove you to take a day or two of leave there. You do not want to limit your search. You may find some pretty good deals there that you would not find here. Also you may want to talk to the folks that run your commisary. They may have connections that your unaware of.
Good luck in your search.

JasonWilliam · May 31, 2009, 12:36 AM

Thank you for your service OverUnder.

I'm the guy zippy refers to in his post. Both BigJim and zippy (as well as others) have been absolutely instrumental in my understandings, my 'growth' and my enjoyment. Listen to these guys... while I don't know for sure, I have the distinct feeling that we're benefiting from over 70 years of combined clay sports shooting, between these two.

I was on a far more limited budget than you are; I set my mark at $1500 figuring that was a good number to spend in trying something like this out. If I didn't love it, no harm no foul. If I love it, then I've got myself a solid shooter that will last a long long time.

After a LOT of research, a TON of Q&A with folks like zippy and BigJim, and some just straight up good time spent at the club, I narrowed my choices down to two:
1) a new Beretta AL391 Teknys (semiauto)
2) a used Browing Citori something or Beretta something (O/U)

The first option in my short list makes good sense for beginners like us. The 391 is arguably the best semiauto on the market. It will last you a lifetime and enable you to enjoy yourself in any of the clay sports, as well as serve you well as a hunting gun. While its certainly not a master of any of the clay sports, it serves as a jack of all.

And, I figured if I found myself really loving this sport but with little use for a semiauto anymore, I could sell the 391 for a significant chunk of change; those things hold their resale value like crazy.

The second option on my short list seemed like a good reason to delay the first, and force myself to spend more time trying guns. *If* a well loved O/U were to magically show up, I'd take a look.

Funny thing for me; the sales guy at my club actually is the one that dropped the used O/U in my lap. He gave up the sale, in order to put me into an O/U that I could really learn the craft with.

Truth be told, if my budget was what yours is, a semiauto would not have been on my list. On some level I know I love this sport, and that I'm here for the long haul, so jumping to a good basic utilitarian O/U was my perfect scenario; zippy's "Phase I" gun. I really lucked out.

Do you *know* you're hooked too? If so, really REALLY listen to zippy and BigJim. They're steering down the same road they steered me, and I couldn't be more grateful to them.

But if there's some doubt... if you're not totally sold this sport is for you, still listen to those guys, but maybe ask them about a semiauto, and see what they think. Also don't be afraid to rent a gun for a while longer, and continue to feel things out. Ask folks at your club what they like and use and why, and listen to what they have to say. Maybe even take a lesson or two before buying anything...

No matter what though, keep asking questions. I've found this 'group' to be amazingly helpful to a beginner like me. Their passion is contagious.

pbrktrt · May 31, 2009, 09:48 AM

With that kind of budget I'd be looking at Caesar Guerini. A much nicer shotgun than the B-guns. Plus they actually have customer service.

greyson97 · July 31, 2009, 09:07 AM

IMO paying 4k for a shotgun is sorta ridiculous since you can find equally good guns for 500-1200

i wouldnt pay 4k for a single gun. Id buy like a $400 O/U from academy, a cheapy O/U. and once you get good enough you can hit 80% of your clay, get the 1200 Beretta Benelli etc. You will appreciate your gun much much more.

list of all 12 ga shotguns, from most expensive to least
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/a...page/1/sort/5d

oneounceload · July 31, 2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

i wouldnt pay 4k for a single gun.

There are folks who would, and do.....and pay a lot more than that for a long-lasting target gun. You can take a Perazzi or Kreighoff at $8-10,000, put 100,000 shells through it for a few years and sell it for at least, if not more, than what you paid for it, all the time not having to worry about it breaking.

hogdogs · July 31, 2009, 10:02 AM

Quote:

since you can find equally good guns for 500-1200

Now that is a truly false statement...
That is like saying a timex keeps time as good as a Hublot Big Bang...
http://www.swissluxury.com/hublot-wa...-bang-44mm.htm
Saint Happenin'
I love my utilitarian mossbergs and will likely never leave the brand out of a long ago established customer loyalty but I ain't about to say "equally good".
Equally good has to do with fit and finish and a new mossberg barrel is never gonna look as rich as that on a 10K or even a 4k gun and we won't even discuss the wood and finish on the stocks

As much as I think the action is fine on my 20 year old 500... I bet there ain't 1/6th of a man hour invested in hand polishing on my gun's internal parts...
Brent

BigJimP · July 31, 2009, 11:47 AM

Any shotgun - if it fits you - will potentially hit any target you can throw / or will see on a clays field or on live birds.

You don't need to spend $ 4K - or $ 20K for a good Target grade shotgun / and if you have poor shooting funamentals - what gun you shoot won't make a bit of difference.

But the quality of the gun will show up as you put 10,000 shells a year thru a gun. Cost isn't always a mark of quality / but in general - most of the more expensive guns give you a good value for your money ( or at least to me ). But when I first started shooting clays - the first gun I every bought was a pump gun / Browning BPS / and I still have it. Its killed a lot of targets and a lot of birds ..... but today I shoot other guns / more specialized, dedicated to one game or the other / and partly because I can afford to shoot whatever I want to shoot and I like nice guns .....and nice cars, etc / but you don't need any of that to start out - but don't assume guys that can afford to shoot nice guns are wasting their money....

Besides its their money - and they should shoot whatever they want - and so should you ... What gun you shoot doesn't matter - what matters is being a gentleman, being safe, enjoying the other shooters around you .. and enjoying the game. You're welcome to shoot a $ 100 pump gun in my squad anytime - if you follow those rules. If you don't follow the rules - you can take your $ 25 K Krieghoff and go shoot somewhere else .....but don't assume the guys shooting nice guns are idiots or that they don't appreciate their guns - trust me, most of them do.

Russ5924 · July 31, 2009, 03:18 PM

When I first starting shooting trap I bought a O/U. I shot consistent 22 with it never higher. I traded it in on a Remington 870 TC trap gun and my scores went to 23 -24 with some 25 and a couple 50 straight never got 100. So sometimes and O/U is not the perfect choice. A few years later I bought a Winchester 101 had the same problem

BigJimP · July 31, 2009, 03:34 PM

Did you ever figure out why Russ / did you ever take those guns to a pattern board to see where they were shooting ? Not trying to be argumentative / just curious how you resolved it ?

zippy13 · August 1, 2009, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ5924

When I first starting shooting trap I bought a O/U. I shot consistent 22 with it never higher. I traded it in on a Remington 870 TC trap gun and my scores went to 23 -24 with some 25 and a couple 50 straight never got 100. So sometimes and O/U is not the perfect choice. A few years later I bought a Winchester 101 had the same problem.

You're right, an O/U isn't the perfect choice in all applications. Why shoot a double in a game that requires only one shot? That's why they make fixed breach single barrel trap guns (or, you can opt for a combo if you want to shoot doubles with the same gun). My experiences is the opposite of yours: 40+ years ago, I started with a pump for general shooting and then got the Skeet bug. The pump was replaced by a Winchester 101 Skeet model. Over the years I had that gun my best score was a 98. I replaced the W-101 with a Perazzi and was soon shooting 100 straights. Many comp shooters will have a similar story. Yes, there is a difference.

**Frank Ettin** · August 5, 2009, 09:11 PM

Whether an O/U, break open single, auto-loader or anything else, what matters most is that the gun fit you properly -- that when you mount it, it will shoot where you are looking. In the clay target games and wingshooting generally, you focus on the target.

gunman1960 · August 5, 2009, 09:34 PM

ive shot a lot of different shotguns in my life.the remington semi auto, in 1100 or 1187,model is one of the best guns i have ever shot. 3 shots with plug,i think 6 without a plug.,you can buy about 6 of these guns for four thousand,,lol. i dove hunt in dusty regions in texas, and duck hunt in marshes,my remington has never jammed or misfired. just my 2 cents.

May 29, 2009, 04:24 PM	#1
OverUnder1984 Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2009 Posts: 3	New to Sporting Guns, HELP I am currently serving overseas with US Army and got into skeet and trap just before I deployed. I know the basics about over under guns, but not enough to select one for myself, as I used the range's guns. Here is what I a looking to do: shoot both Skeet and Trap and possibly bird hunt (with friends). I was looking at Beretta and Browning over under guns and am willing to spend up to $4000. I am about 6'1", 190lbs. Any advice as to barrel length, chamber size, adjustable comb, and anything else you can think of would be helpful. Also, can I shoot a 2 3/4" round out of a gun chambered for 3" ?

May 29, 2009, 04:28 PM	#2
Tatsumi67 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2007 Posts: 575	Yes, a 3" chamber gun can shoot 2 3/4" shells __________________ "Do what you can, what you want, what you must,feel the hunger inside, just don't lose your trust" - KMFDM, Trust. NRA Member,Minnesota State Safety Certified, Eagle Scout Currently schemeing on an AR-15 build.

May 30, 2009, 12:13 AM	#6
zippy13 Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: SoCal Posts: 6,442	Greetings OverUnder1984, welcome aboard and thank you for your service, You're at a difficult point in the shooting sports. As you stated, you've shot enough to want a gun of your own. But, you lack the experience to evaluate various similar guns. You're not the first to be in this position. With past postings, I've recommend the shooter gain more experience before shelling out the big bucks. A case on point: BigJimP and I have been exchanging PMs with another new shooter who's in a position similar to yours. He's shot just enough to know that he really enjoys the shotgun sports, but not enough to know which ones he favors. For a while he's been looking at various new and used auto-loaders and O/Us. He contemplated several purchases while developing his short list. Some guns seemed to have a better natural feel to him than others. He finally decided on a pampered used gun, that was attractively priced, listed on his gun club's bulletin board. It's a general purpose quality O/U. It's not perfect for any one game, but it will allow him to shoot casually in all of the shooting sports. I call this a Phase I gun. Eventually he'll probably favor one of the sports over the others and shoot it the majority of the time. As he gains experience in his sport of choice, he'll be able to identify the features that make a gun more suited to that sport. Eventually he'll come to a point where his improvement halts because of the limitations of his gun, where previously he'd been limited by his lack of experience. This is the time when it's appropriate to get a game specific shotgun, and he'll have the experience to properly evaluate his individual needs. I call this a Phase II gun. At this point, if he wishes, he'll probably be able to sell his Phase I gun for about what he paid for it. If he gets into serious competition, he may progress to a point where the Phase II gun becomes a limiting factor. He'll be ready for a custom comp unit, a Phase III gun. It will take the experience gained with his Phase II gun before he can establish his requirements in a custom comp gun. So it goes, each phase is a necessary prerequisite to the acquisition of the next. Otherwise you're just wasting your money paying for features you don't understand. And selecting the wrong features can actually impede your progress. In reality, the average casual shooter may never progress beyond a Phase I gun. OverUnder1984, for now, I suggest you look for a general purpose O/U that fits you best. Follow oneounceload's advice and try as many guns as you can. Don't expect your first O/U to be a perfect all-around gun -- it doesn't exist. It's okay to spend less, and put aside some of your $$ for the Phase II gun. Good luck, good shooting, and come home safely. Pete Last edited by zippy13; May 30, 2009 at 04:11 PM. Reason: typos

May 30, 2009, 05:20 PM	#9
OverUnder1984 Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2009 Posts: 3	Thank you for the advice. I think I will ask around to see if friends will let me check out, if not run a few rounds through their guns. I will be getting home (stationed in Alaska) from Iraq in early fall and hope to be able to have a gun of my own before it's -40. Thanks for the tips and pictures, you have helped me narrow my search and maybe even saved me some money. I have only gotten in to shooting recently and over the past two years I have bought: H&K P2000 .40 (carry and HD), Springfield 1911 Loaded (because 1911s are great and it was what I could afford), 45-70 Marlin 1895G (BEARS) and a custom AR-15 free float target rifle. Last edited by OverUnder1984; May 30, 2009 at 06:03 PM.

May 30, 2009, 08:21 PM	#10
sheepman Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2007 Location: Moses Lake WA Posts: 395	Like the others have said try as many different guns as possible. My experience with Browning has been good and have shot an SKB, you just need to try different guns and see what works for you, in your price range there are some quality guns available. Thanks for your service. Good luck :Bill __________________ The best gun is the one you have when you really need one

May 29, 2009, 07:05 PM	#4
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Thank you for your Service..... The most versatile O/U in the Browning Citori lineup, in my opinion - is the Citori XS Skeet model with the adjustable comb. Here is a link to the model.. http://www.browning.com/products/cat...13&type_id=066 The gun has very good balance / nice wood on most of them - and is a gun that will easily last you 100,000 shells or more (I've frankly never worn one out ). If you purchase some extended chokes for it ( and I recommend 2 Skeet, 2 Improved Cyclinder, 2 Mod, 1 Improved Mod, 1 Full ) - and I like the Browning Midas Grade or the Diana grade ( so it's another $ 500 for the chokes you'll need ) and a nice Browning take down hard case for about $ 175 - I think you are all set and under your budget. The XS Skeet is selling new for about $ 2,850 in my area. I like it with 30" barrels. It is my primary gun for Skeet, Sporting Clays and bird hunting. I do not use it for a dedicated Trap gun ( I go with the Browning XT with adj comb for Trap ) but at around 10 lbs its too heavy and clumsy for Skeet or hunting. I think Browning gives you a lot of gun for the money. The parallel comb - with the adj comb in it / makes it a gun that can be adjusted to fit most anyone and that's the biggest plus of this model. Its my opinion, that guns with angled combs are a mistake for a general purpose gun / unless you know what stock dimensions exactly fit you - and you're prepared to pay for a truly custom stock on a custom gun ( like a Kolar, Krieghoff, Blaser or Perazzi ) and those are all way out of your budget range. My XS Skeet models in 12ga, 20ga, 28ga and .410 - I shoot these guns all the time. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...1&d=1236031020 Here are my primary Trap guns ( Browning XT models, 32" barrels, one with a GraCoil system and upgraded wood ) / one is stock - both with adj combs. http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...9&d=1243443556 The XS Skeet is also a gun that is very easy to sell / if you take care of it down the road / if you want something different. In my area used a good XS Skeet is selling for $ 2,600 easily these days in 12ga or 20ga / and there are some available in 28ga and .410 / they were special ordered by a number of dealers over the years ( the 28ga and .410 are built on the 20ga receiver in the XS Skeet ) and they're identical to the 20ga. Take care.

May 29, 2009, 09:19 PM	#5
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	TRY as many as you can - while Beretta and Browning, (and SKB), are all good guns, they have VERY different stock measurements......usually what feels good to you on one brand will not feel good on the other - doesn't mean one is bad, just different.Many guns can do what you seek - try the base gun club and see what is being used and try some of them.....once you have the basic gun, it can always be "tweaked" to suit you perfectly

May 30, 2009, 10:16 AM	#7
LordofWar Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2009 Location: Pakistan Posts: 646	Beretta ALL the way. Get a field gun because a specialized gun will serve only a single purpose and you want to do both skeet & trap. Any Silver Pigeon (II-V) would serve the utility.

May 30, 2009, 10:20 AM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Despite my opinion of the Browning XS Skeet model - OneOunce and Zippy are right, try as many guns as you can. Talk to the guys at your local club - about models, fit, etc - and you'll get a lot of info. I'd be surprised if a number of them won't let you put a few shells thru their guns so you can get a little feel for how they fit you. A lot of guys have dozens of guns in their safes - but shoot primarily one or two guns / but they may have something you're interested in and be willing to bring a gun in just so you can try it. Buy them a couple boxes of shells, a cup of coffee or whatever for their trouble... I think you'll find a lot of guys are very helpful when they know you're serious about finding the right gun.

May 30, 2009, 08:58 PM	#11
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	YIKES!....from 115 above to 40 below? I went from Houston to ND and that was bad enough!...... Seriously, hope it all goes your way, and I am sure that anyone at any gun club would be more than willing to let you try their gun.......happens all the time at my little club in the middle of BFE Florida, I'm sure it will be the same wherever you land. Shoot, ask questions, shoot some more. Remember, if a particular gun doesn't fit EXACTLY, but you feel it is right and it fits close......it can be tweaked to make it perfect..... Welcome to the addiction!.......

May 30, 2009, 11:04 PM	#12
olddrum1 Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2008 Location: Mid Missouri Posts: 807	OK, heres my two cents worth. The advice that you have gotten is good advice but its stateside advice. What you may want to do is to check the availablity of what is over there. When I was overseas you could buy more Beretta for the money than Browning. What I am saying is, on your way home you don't have a stop over in say Italy. It might behoove you to take a day or two of leave there. You do not want to limit your search. You may find some pretty good deals there that you would not find here. Also you may want to talk to the folks that run your commisary. They may have connections that your unaware of. Good luck in your search.

May 31, 2009, 12:36 AM	#13
JasonWilliam Junior member Join Date: May 9, 2009 Posts: 142	Thank you for your service OverUnder. I'm the guy zippy refers to in his post. Both BigJim and zippy (as well as others) have been absolutely instrumental in my understandings, my 'growth' and my enjoyment. Listen to these guys... while I don't know for sure, I have the distinct feeling that we're benefiting from over 70 years of combined clay sports shooting, between these two. I was on a far more limited budget than you are; I set my mark at $1500 figuring that was a good number to spend in trying something like this out. If I didn't love it, no harm no foul. If I love it, then I've got myself a solid shooter that will last a long long time. After a LOT of research, a TON of Q&A with folks like zippy and BigJim, and some just straight up good time spent at the club, I narrowed my choices down to two: 1) a new Beretta AL391 Teknys (semiauto) 2) a used Browing Citori something or Beretta something (O/U) The first option in my short list makes good sense for beginners like us. The 391 is arguably the best semiauto on the market. It will last you a lifetime and enable you to enjoy yourself in any of the clay sports, as well as serve you well as a hunting gun. While its certainly not a master of any of the clay sports, it serves as a jack of all. And, I figured if I found myself really loving this sport but with little use for a semiauto anymore, I could sell the 391 for a significant chunk of change; those things hold their resale value like crazy. The second option on my short list seemed like a good reason to delay the first, and force myself to spend more time trying guns. If a well loved O/U were to magically show up, I'd take a look. Funny thing for me; the sales guy at my club actually is the one that dropped the used O/U in my lap. He gave up the sale, in order to put me into an O/U that I could really learn the craft with. Truth be told, if my budget was what yours is, a semiauto would not have been on my list. On some level I know I love this sport, and that I'm here for the long haul, so jumping to a good basic utilitarian O/U was my perfect scenario; zippy's "Phase I" gun. I really lucked out. Do you know you're hooked too? If so, really REALLY listen to zippy and BigJim. They're steering down the same road they steered me, and I couldn't be more grateful to them. But if there's some doubt... if you're not totally sold this sport is for you, still listen to those guys, but maybe ask them about a semiauto, and see what they think. Also don't be afraid to rent a gun for a while longer, and continue to feel things out. Ask folks at your club what they like and use and why, and listen to what they have to say. Maybe even take a lesson or two before buying anything... No matter what though, keep asking questions. I've found this 'group' to be amazingly helpful to a beginner like me. Their passion is contagious. Last edited by JasonWilliam; May 31, 2009 at 12:52 AM.

May 31, 2009, 09:48 AM	#14
pbrktrt Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2008 Posts: 313	With that kind of budget I'd be looking at Caesar Guerini. A much nicer shotgun than the B-guns. Plus they actually have customer service.

July 31, 2009, 09:07 AM	#15
greyson97 Senior Member Join Date: June 29, 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 1,284	IMO paying 4k for a shotgun is sorta ridiculous since you can find equally good guns for 500-1200 i wouldnt pay 4k for a single gun. Id buy like a $400 O/U from academy, a cheapy O/U. and once you get good enough you can hit 80% of your clay, get the 1200 Beretta Benelli etc. You will appreciate your gun much much more. list of all 12 ga shotguns, from most expensive to least http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/a...page/1/sort/5d __________________ "Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe, maybe. I've yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." -Heavy si vis pacem, para bellum

July 31, 2009, 11:47 AM	#18
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Any shotgun - if it fits you - will potentially hit any target you can throw / or will see on a clays field or on live birds. You don't need to spend $ 4K - or $ 20K for a good Target grade shotgun / and if you have poor shooting funamentals - what gun you shoot won't make a bit of difference. But the quality of the gun will show up as you put 10,000 shells a year thru a gun. Cost isn't always a mark of quality / but in general - most of the more expensive guns give you a good value for your money ( or at least to me ). But when I first started shooting clays - the first gun I every bought was a pump gun / Browning BPS / and I still have it. Its killed a lot of targets and a lot of birds ..... but today I shoot other guns / more specialized, dedicated to one game or the other / and partly because I can afford to shoot whatever I want to shoot and I like nice guns .....and nice cars, etc / but you don't need any of that to start out - but don't assume guys that can afford to shoot nice guns are wasting their money.... Besides its their money - and they should shoot whatever they want - and so should you ... What gun you shoot doesn't matter - what matters is being a gentleman, being safe, enjoying the other shooters around you .. and enjoying the game. You're welcome to shoot a $ 100 pump gun in my squad anytime - if you follow those rules. If you don't follow the rules - you can take your $ 25 K Krieghoff and go shoot somewhere else .....but don't assume the guys shooting nice guns are idiots or that they don't appreciate their guns - trust me, most of them do.

July 31, 2009, 03:18 PM	#19
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	When I first starting shooting trap I bought a O/U. I shot consistent 22 with it never higher. I traded it in on a Remington 870 TC trap gun and my scores went to 23 -24 with some 25 and a couple 50 straight never got 100. So sometimes and O/U is not the perfect choice. A few years later I bought a Winchester 101 had the same problem __________________ Russ5924

July 31, 2009, 03:34 PM	#20
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Did you ever figure out why Russ / did you ever take those guns to a pattern board to see where they were shooting ? Not trying to be argumentative / just curious how you resolved it ?

August 5, 2009, 09:11 PM	#22
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Whether an O/U, break open single, auto-loader or anything else, what matters most is that the gun fit you properly -- that when you mount it, it will shoot where you are looking. In the clay target games and wingshooting generally, you focus on the target.

August 5, 2009, 09:34 PM	#23
gunman1960 Junior Member Join Date: July 10, 2008 Location: s.e.texas Posts: 7	remington 1100 or 1187 ive shot a lot of different shotguns in my life.the remington semi auto, in 1100 or 1187,model is one of the best guns i have ever shot. 3 shots with plug,i think 6 without a plug.,you can buy about 6 of these guns for four thousand,,lol. i dove hunt in dusty regions in texas, and duck hunt in marshes,my remington has never jammed or misfired. just my 2 cents.