PTSD and guns

[chack]

How big of a risk is it that reporting PTSD symptoms could result in losing your ability to legally own/buy firearms?

The army keeps asking me questions about whether or not I have any symptoms after my deployment and I keep thinking that no matter how many issues I ever had that there is no way I'd risk having my rights taken away.

I have seen articles with quotes from various gun grabbing politicians and they seem to have targeted guys like me, and one of the questions the army always ask is whether or not I have access to guns.

Is this something to be concerned about?

[44 AMP]

I think you are right to have your suspicions.

A few years ago, I bought a Mauser rifle from a fellow who was getting treatment from the VA. One of the things he was being treated for was PTSD. The VA gave him a simple choice. Get rid of any guns (large knives swords, etc.) that he owned, or lose his assistance from the VA.

I can understand the basic reasoning, after all, who wants unstable people having weapons? BUT, PTSD is such a large, nebulous, ill defined condition that many who are no threat to themselves or others, but just have some issues in their lives are going to be disarmed, all for the public good, you know.

Anyone who has EVER had a stressful situation in their lives (and who hasn't?) and later shows some personalitiy quirk can be diagnosed PTSD.

It a a huge slippery slope.

[NJgunowner]

I don't believe this is a nefarious attempt by the government to remove your guns. There have been a lot of high profile stories of our soldiers coming back and committing suicide or other mental breakdown. On the other hand if you do have anything remotely resembling a mental disorder, than ya they'll want those guns gone.

The problem is they MAY bit care it's a mild case of depression or full on dementia.

These stories have naturally got people (and therefor politicians) wondering if the military is taking care of our soldiers properly and making sure they are doing OK. So ya, they have to ask questions and lots of them to make sure.

[BarryLee]

Not real familiar with privacy and required reporting issues, but could you be treated for PTSD by a Doctor in Private practice without the same concerns you might have at the VA?

[Don H]

Originally Posted by BarryLee

Not real familiar with privacy and required reporting issues, but could you be treated for PTSD by a Doctor in Private practice without the same concerns you might have at the VA?

Sure...if you pay cash and don't use your real name.

The feds are requiring more and more physicians and insurance companies to maintain electronic records rather than the paper-based records of the past. ObamaCare is currently designed to eventually move insurance companies from the health insurance field in favor of a government-operated single payer system. If this survives the multitude of court challenges it will generate, the feds will have direct access to your treatment records.

Another, perhaps easier route, is for legislation to be enacted requiring psychiatric treatment to be reported to a govt agency, for the common good, of course. There have been, and will continue to be, enough people claiming mental illness and committing high-profile crimes that such reporting will be very attractive to a lot of voters.

Perhaps I'm being overly cynical but I'm pretty careful about what sort of data is linked to my ID. A lot of things could pop up and bite me in the butt many years later if I don't exercise a modicum of caution now.

[Eghad]

I work for the military as a civilian. I deal with unit and individual readiness and medical readiness. I have seen profiles come down after a Periodic Health Assessment. The folks that do the interviews are sometimes civilian contractors. They do the interview using a laptop filled with the data you have input. There is some kind of scoring deal on the questions. I have gotten back a couple of profiles where I have had to notify the unit commander that the individual is not to be issued his assigned weapon till he is cleared by a visit to mental health professional. 99.9% of the time the individual is cleared because he is not a danger to himself or others he or she was just having a bad week, month, ect......

I have just taken a exam at the VA. I answered some questions from the nurse. Then I had to see somebody in mental health for an interview. The Doc asked me a few and figured out in about 5 minutes I have a few issues but nothing so great that I need medications or I am a dnager to anybody.

If you are military or ex-military going to the VA mental health is a hot topic button.

As for treatment at the VA for Mental Health...they have too many patients and not enough doctors. They will probably throw some meds at you unless you have some serious issues that make you a threat.

You will probably get better treatment from a a good private doctor. If you don't have insurance there are some resources for veterans to get help.

[Tom Servo]

BUT, PTSD is such a large, nebulous, ill defined condition that many who are no threat to themselves or others, but just have some issues in their lives are going to be disarmed, all for the public good, you know.

I know many, many people with some degree of PTSD. Only one has ever given me pause.

Even in his case, I've never been the least bit worried that he'd lash out. He's a normally gregarious guy who just has a fugue and goes into introvert mode for a few minutes every now and then.

Now, if the condition causes someone to cross the line into violence, there need to be safeguards (as there already are). However, a mere diagnosis should not be a stigma. I also know a few recovering alcoholics who are among the sanest people I've had the fortune to meet.

they have too many patients and not enough doctors. They will probably throw some meds at you unless you have some serious issues that make you a threat.

That is all too sadly true. I knew a man who died as a result of mis-prescribed pain medication. The doctors weren't talking to each other well enough, and somebody didn't check well enough for possible interactions.

I know there's a possibility (and I don't like it one bit), but I've never heard of anyone being denied their rights due to a simple diagnosis.

[45Gunner]

There are many degrees of PTSD and also many facets of the disorder. PTSD is commonly associated with suicide or one lashing out and hurting one self and/or other people. This is not true in every case and each individual must be evaluated as just that, an individual.

For those that suffer with PTSD, the most difficult step is to realize one has it and to seek help. Attending group sessions with other Veterans suffering from PTSD can be a tremendous help Some Veterans deal with depression in one manifestation or another, along with sleeplessness, hyper-awareness, flashbacks, bad dreams, etc. Most of these guys also see a social worker and a shrink on a regular basis.

With that being said, the VA Hospitals have their share of other less fortunate Veterans who have gone off the deep end with their PTSD. These are the guys that can no longer have any firearms, knives, or weapons of any sort.

It is very sad that these men/women go off to combat knowing their life is on the line virtually every minute they are in a combat zone and see things that no human being should have to witness. Yet, upon returning to the structure and routine of the real world, have a difficult time adjusting and have to fight the VA and the system around every turn to get the help they need and deserve.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by chack

Is this something to be concerned about?

IMHO, yes it IS something to be concerned about. As you have noticed, there is a move afoot in Washington to stigmatize veterans who have incurred PTSD in service of their country, and to "reward" them by forever depriving them of the Constitutional RKBA. While it has not yet been made into law, it's a fair guess that should such a law be enacted it will be retroactive.

Interestingly (or not), just last Saturday I struck up a conversation with a guy who rode into the local McDonalds on a motorcycle that caught my eye. Turns out we were both at the same place in Vietnam, same unit, but he arrived in country a few months after I had DEROSed and ETSed. He mentioned that he has been diagnosed with PTSD and that this has been used as a reason to deny him a carry permit in our state (which I am not going to mention, so don't bother to ask). We talked about guns and permits and PTSD, and he advised me in VERY strong terms never to seek treatment from the VA if I want to keep my carry permit.

The VA is actually VERY anti-RKBA. They also provide very poor medical care -- unless you were a general officer, you don't ever get to see "real" doctors, you get treated by interns and residents. My nearby VA hospital offers chiropractic care, for example -- but I happen to know that they draw their practitioners from a nearby college that has a degree in Chiropractic, and there's no way I'm going to let a rookie twist my neck.

I imagine the same is true of psychological/psychiatric care. And the entire VA healthcare system is fully computerized, so anything that gets entered at a VA clinic in Maine is instantly available in San Diego.

A long time ago, on another forum (the original THR, I think), well before this push to stigmatize PTSD, someone recommended that if you want or need psychological help, go to a doctor in another city, use an alias, and pay in cash. That advice becomes more cogent with each passing day.

[NWPilgrim]

From Form 4473:

Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own
affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?

So at least the current law would not preclude you from buying more guns. However, any treatment you get will be on your permanent medical records and who knows how those will be used in the future.

If you have PTSD then you should definitely seek some help to deal with it but you might try some veterans groups and see what they recommend for both effective assistance as well as low profile. Really irritates me that the VA adds one more burden to our troops who have seen the elephant on our behalf.

[Hardcase]

The NICS Improvement Act codified exactly what it takes to be denied the right to purchase and/or own a firearm. Specifically, a diagnosis of a mental health issue is not sufficient to deny that right. The diagnosis must also be backed by a medical board review and/or appeal or a judicial finding.

Being judged disabled due to PTSD is not the same as being judged "mentally defective". The medical board must show that you are a danger to yourself or others - and you have the right to appeal that finding. Some doctor can't just check off the PTSD box and *poof* your Second Amendment right disappears.

There is also language in the law outlining limitations on what the VA can and cannot do. The law is also binding upon military physicians, as are the requirements of HIPAA.

I got out of the Navy about 15 years ago and I was diagnosed with PTSD about five years ago. I had no problem talking to my family doctor about it and he had no problem prescribing the pill that keeps my anxiety and nightmares well under control. But even without the prescription, I wasn't a danger to myself or anyone else...I was just grumpy. And to be honest, I should have talked to a Navy doctor about it before I got out. It was just too doggone hard to get an appointment where I was stationed.

[ltc444]

I have been working with PTSD afflicted service members since before it was called PTSD. My own father suffers from PTSD from WWII. My senior EOD Tech. suffered from PTSD. My Brother IN LAW suffered from PTSD From Vietnam.

I currently work with a Black Ops Sniper. None of them would I have a problem with owning or possessing a firearm.

If you have a problem report it. If you do not you will be unable to get help from the VA at a later date. This includes counseling and disablity.

I have found the care given at the Phoenix AZ Va hospital to be outstanding. The medical personnel are carrying an proactive. The problem is with the entrenched low level workers.

Dr Betts at the Show low Clinic is one of the finest doctors I have ever had care for me.

[Drizzt]

I am over at the VA clinic every few weeks for follow-ups, and every time the nurse is taking all the pre-exam info (BP, temp, etc.) I get those same questions about my mental state and the screening for PTSD. I always answer that I am happy as a rainbow-farting unicorn no matter what kind of day I am having, because I don't want anything going in the system that will come back to bite me. I will say, though, that the medical care I have received has always been very good and I see an actual doctor every time I am in there. There are certainly drawbacks to the VA care, but my experience has been positive.

[Buzzcook]

It is much more important that people be treated for PTSD than to worry about losing your gun rights.
We're talking about a serious condition that can have devistating effects on individuals, their friends and family. One of the more insidious effects is that the person suffering from PTSD frequently actively avoids treatment. Weigh that against a possibility that someone "might" lose their gun rights.

[chack]

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