if a hunter says... - Page 2

kboom524 · January 8, 2009, 10:32 AM

He would have my respect. Here in Indiana we are limited to shotgun, muzzleloader, handgun, and in the last couple of years rifles chambered for legal handgun cartriges. Very rarely to we have an area where you have a shot much over 100 yrds. At the range I know I can hit the center of a bowling pin at 100 yrds with my iron sighted 44 blackhawk. When huntig though I try to get as close as possible, preferably within 30 yrds. That just my choice. I enjoy the challenge of getting as close as possible, its one of the reasons I hunt with a handgun. I have friends who routinely shoot deer out to 100 yrds with teir scoped muzzleloaders, thats their choice and I don't hold it against them. The main thing is to treat the animal with the respect it deserves and to dispatch it as quickly and humanely as possible.

L_Killkenny · January 8, 2009, 02:01 PM

Wanting to challenge himself may or may not be commendable. I don't know him or his motives.

But the second he opens his mouth and makes the statement quoted indicates that he is an elitist ass that thinks he's better than those who take longer shots.

Big difference between wanting to challenge yourself and someone who openly refers to HUNTERS that take longer shots as "shooters". It speaks volumes about his state of mind.

TheManHimself · January 8, 2009, 02:04 PM

Makes me wish we had more hunters like him than the ones who buy a big magnum cannon and glass that looks like it came from the Hubble space telescope, fire 10 shots at the range to sight in, and think they're good to go for 400 yard shots on game. He may be an elitist ass, but at least he's not leaving deer to starve to death with their jaw blown off.

Smallgame2100 · January 8, 2009, 02:14 PM

I would give him my respect.

Anyone with a good rifle can shoot 400 yards and kill what you want.
However, its unlikely for people to stalk their prey and kill it. I prefer stalking myself.

davlandrum · January 8, 2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Anyone with a good rifle can shoot 400 yards and kill what you want.

Actually, probably a lot fewer than THINK they can...

I admit 400 yds is beyond my range

Beretta16 · January 8, 2009, 04:07 PM

I would mostly agree with him. While one may be capable of a clean, ethical kill at that range, can it really be considered 'hunting' in the literal sense of the term? I understand there is a large amount of skill needed to accurately shoot at 500 yards, but to just spot an animal at that distance, set up and shoot it, how much of a chance did that animal really have? Just because it is difficult doesn't make it sporting. I don't think anyone can argue it is a hell of a lot more sporting to sneak up on your animal, get within 100 yards and take it, than just set up the bipod and rattle off a shot at 500 yards, and hope it doesn't drift a little bit and gut shot it.

ZeroJunk · January 8, 2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

I admit 400 yds is beyond my range

Mine too. If it's much over 100 yards I start looking for some kind of rest. I might try at 300 if I can get settled on something, that's about it.

You can tell pretty quick when you get the scope on the animal whether or not you have the control to make a good shot.

Every situation is unique. If somebody is saying they are going to do this or that they are probably just talking.

hogdogs · January 8, 2009, 04:30 PM

At beyond 100-150 I need a dedicated game spotter to point to the critter

Brent

fisherman66 · January 8, 2009, 06:20 PM

Brent, you probably need a heat seeking sidewinder too.

hogdogs · January 8, 2009, 06:23 PM

Fisherman, My luck says it would go "broken arrow" and circle back for me or my fart signature!

Brent

PTS1 · January 9, 2009, 10:44 AM

PHP Code:


			
As Clint Eastwood put it in the movie, Jossie Wells, "A man must know his limitations."

Actually, that was from Magnum Force.

aerod1 · January 14, 2009, 01:40 PM

I would respect him for knowing his limitations and staying within them. This is one mark of a good hunter.
I am a lot like that myself. I don't like long shots when I can take a shorter shot with a little perserverance.

James R. Burke · February 23, 2009, 02:48 PM

No doubt Daryl stated it right. Each hunter has his or hers limits for alot of differnt reasons. I think if a hunter passes on a shot you got to give them credit for knowing there limits or safety reasons. To many hunters making bad shots. If you dont have placaement there is no way you have a shot.

ritepath · February 23, 2009, 09:03 PM

I'll admit I'm a crappy shot when hunting because I always hurry up the shot. If I don't take the time to slow myself down I'll miss every time. I know if I were to say such a thing it would be because of my minds limitations not my rifle. Someone else wants to shoot 400 yards with a 30-30 go for it.

publius · February 23, 2009, 09:21 PM

The only problem I have w/that statement is the inference that people who do take shots past his self-imposed limit is less of a hunter. I have killed very few animals over 150yds. but I have a friend who is a very good shot that routinely kills deer at 300-400yds. He is no less a hunter than I.

TonyAR308 · February 24, 2009, 07:03 AM

HUNTER vs shooter. Do you spend more time in the woods or on the range?

pilothunter · February 25, 2009, 12:52 PM

I'd say that he/she was an ethical hunter who has put some thought into not only that statement, but how they enjoy hunting as well. There are a LOT more rifles capable of 400-500yd lethal performance on deer(big game) than there are hunters, I can guarantee that. In my opinion too many "hunters" buy a rifle after reading the ballistics for the caliber, sighting in at 100yds, and then guessing the range to a deer/elk/antelope/add animal, way yonder.

As a matter of fact, most of the 300-500yd shots reported are likely truly much closer to 150-250yds. I've had hunters tell me about 400yd shots they made and then point to some trees 175-200yds away and say that's what the range was. I suppose it's easier for fisherman, especially the one "that got away" to be able to exaggerate on it's size, so all the typical hunter can do is add a hundred or so yards to the distance his/her trophy was shot at (and hopefully collected).

I've asked enough hunters a few simple questions about either trajectories or ballistics(or both) to realize that the typical weekend hunter knows little to nothing about either. This is in no way meant to insult anyone, but simply to state my experiences over more than 3 decades of hunting in numerous states and with a bunch of different rifles.

I'm sorry, but when I meet a hunter and he's(she's) extolling the long range virtues of their rifle and shooting within the first 10 mins, I'm simply unimpressed, and likely unbelieving, as well.
Simply my opinion, of course.

lockedcj7 · March 2, 2009, 09:44 AM

The last part of that statement strikes me as being a little snobbish. I've hunted deer for 25 years or so and I've done it with a bow, muzzleloader and rifle. I've camped, hiked, climbed trees, still-hunted and driven. I've hunted thickets where a rabbit dared to go and I've glassed wide-open spaces from the comfort of a heated blind. And I've killed deer under all of the circumstances above. Like an earlier poster stated, just because I do it the easy way doesn't mean I don't have the skills to do it the hard way.

I won't take a shot over 300 yds. because I don't need to. The max distance on my farm is 411 yds (laser ranged). I'm 100% confident that I can take a deer out to 300 yds based on my practice at those ranges. If the deer are farther out, I can wait. I'll be back tomorrow and the deer will likely wander closer. If not, I'll take up a stand closer to them. I'll also take advantage of any rest I can find, even if the shot is 50 yds. The only time I've taken off-hand shots is when I've topped a hill and found deer standing broadside less than 30 yds away.

It bugs me when a hunter thinks themselves superior because they're trophy hunters or spot-and-stalk only hunters. It's like dry-fly-only-catch-and-release effete snobs who think they're the only trout fishermen with a conscience.

The place I hunt doesn't require all that much effort and I've hunted it for so long that I know where to find deer on any given day. This year was a great example. Toward the end of September, a bachelor group got into the habit of coming out into the edge of a pasture just before dusk. I found a convenient tree and set up a ladder stand. On opening day of ML season, just like clockwork, they popped out of the trees. One was a cull-buck and that's the one I shot. I didn't get another chance to hunt again due to family obligations, illnesses and work. Toward the end of the season, a group of does started showing up in the same spot, same time. I shot one from my shooting bench with a scoped 30-06 from a sand-bagged rest. Total time hunting this season: 2 hours. I could get up at zero-dark-thirty and hike into the woods to sit in a tree all day, and some days I still do. But the bottom line is that I don't have to. That doesn't make me less of a hunter, especially since I'm a meat hunter.

fisherman66 · March 2, 2009, 09:53 AM

Quote:

It bugs me when a hunter thinks themselves superior because they're trophy hunters or spot-and-stalk only hunters. It's like dry-fly-only-catch-and-release effete snobs who think they're the only trout fishermen with a conscience.

Don't bother me none. I enjoy a close encounter and I think that makes me a better hunter than the yahoo's (who may very well be better shots) that use a range finder and turrets. I drop plastic lures into a lake, I think that makes me a better fisherman than the live bait crew. I think the vest/hat/dry fly wearers are prissy snobs. But...at the end of the day hopefully we will have venison and fried fish together (even if I have to share my fish with the catch and release prisses). There's a learning curve for every hobby/passion. Where we are on that curve doesn't matter as long as we are exercising our right to pursue those passions in a responsible manner.

Art Eatman · March 2, 2009, 10:23 AM

Ol' Bambi spends 365 days a year practicing being Bambi. Me, I have other things to do. So, if I can get up close and personal with him, I sorta pat myself on the back.

Howsomever, I've worked on being able to play Ma Bell, also. I guess my deal is that I don't want to have to get somewhere close. I don't want to be forced into some style because I didn't make myself able to do better.

Some of it comes from intra-family competition. Witnesses have described how my father killed deer out at 400 and 500 yards. Okay, if he could, I can, is the way I've looked at it. I've not all had that many occasions, of course, but that's beside the point. I wanted to have the ability, so I've worked at it.

The one time I killed a buck at 450 yards is a fond memory. But another equally fond memory is the time I sneaked up behind a fat little buck and hit him in the butt with a pebble from ten feet away.

I'm mostly interested in campfire tales, anyway. I guess I do stuff so I have good yarns to tell.

OLNfan · March 2, 2009, 01:23 PM

Very respectful, glad to hear storys of responsible hunters.

timinkc · March 6, 2009, 10:54 PM

nothin beats gettin up close and personal with a wild animal... I always feel like I really did something when I take an animal at close range.

cornbush · March 7, 2009, 11:06 AM

While I may not agree with all of his ideas, I have the utmost respect for hunters who know their limitations and stick to them. I'll be the first to admit I have taken some shots that were a little too long, they resulted in a clean miss or a good hit but probably shouldn't have taken them. Live and learn, at least thats the idea.

Art Eatman · March 7, 2009, 11:15 AM

timinkc, up close and personal is fun. I was sitting on the ground, leaned up against a tree in wait for Bambi. I noticed motion some twenty feet away in the brush; a fox. I lip-squeaked like unto Little Mousie, and he came closer and closer.

Did you know that a fox can instantly turn into a bottle brush when you boink his nose with your boot toe?

Raucous laughter does sorta mess up the deer hunting, though.

PredatorHunter · March 8, 2009, 09:22 AM

I say to each there own and what they find enjoyment in. I personally find it getting myself within reasonable range of the animal. To me it's all about the hunt and the animal. I have a rule it has to be bigger then my "last one". It not about trophies to me it's about the animals. I love looking at my mounts and reminising the hunt.

January 8, 2009, 04:07 PM	#31
Beretta16 Junior member Join Date: November 22, 2007 Location: MN Posts: 230	I would mostly agree with him. While one may be capable of a clean, ethical kill at that range, can it really be considered 'hunting' in the literal sense of the term? I understand there is a large amount of skill needed to accurately shoot at 500 yards, but to just spot an animal at that distance, set up and shoot it, how much of a chance did that animal really have? Just because it is difficult doesn't make it sporting. I don't think anyone can argue it is a hell of a lot more sporting to sneak up on your animal, get within 100 yards and take it, than just set up the bipod and rattle off a shot at 500 yards, and hope it doesn't drift a little bit and gut shot it. Last edited by Beretta16; January 8, 2009 at 04:37 PM.

January 8, 2009, 06:20 PM	#34
fisherman66 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2005 Location: The Woodlands TX Posts: 4,679	Brent, you probably need a heat seeking sidewinder too. __________________ la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!

January 9, 2009, 10:44 AM	#36
PTS1 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2006 Posts: 246	PHP Code: `As Clint Eastwood put it in the movie, Jossie Wells, "A man must know his limitations."` Actually, that was from Magnum Force.

January 14, 2009, 01:40 PM	#37
aerod1 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Garland Texas U.S.A. Posts: 734	I would respect him for knowing his limitations and staying within them. This is one mark of a good hunter. I am a lot like that myself. I don't like long shots when I can take a shorter shot with a little perserverance. __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, C&R 03 FFL, Texas LTC Recreational Reloader U.S. Navy Veteran (USS Midway V-1 Division)

February 23, 2009, 09:21 PM	#40
publius Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Mississippi/Texas Posts: 2,505	The only problem I have w/that statement is the inference that people who do take shots past his self-imposed limit is less of a hunter. I have killed very few animals over 150yds. but I have a friend who is a very good shot that routinely kills deer at 300-400yds. He is no less a hunter than I. __________________ "Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain

January 8, 2009, 10:32 AM	#26
kboom524 Junior Member Join Date: December 30, 2008 Location: New Haven Indiana Posts: 3	He would have my respect. Here in Indiana we are limited to shotgun, muzzleloader, handgun, and in the last couple of years rifles chambered for legal handgun cartriges. Very rarely to we have an area where you have a shot much over 100 yrds. At the range I know I can hit the center of a bowling pin at 100 yrds with my iron sighted 44 blackhawk. When huntig though I try to get as close as possible, preferably within 30 yrds. That just my choice. I enjoy the challenge of getting as close as possible, its one of the reasons I hunt with a handgun. I have friends who routinely shoot deer out to 100 yrds with teir scoped muzzleloaders, thats their choice and I don't hold it against them. The main thing is to treat the animal with the respect it deserves and to dispatch it as quickly and humanely as possible.

January 8, 2009, 02:01 PM	#27
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	Wanting to challenge himself may or may not be commendable. I don't know him or his motives. But the second he opens his mouth and makes the statement quoted indicates that he is an elitist ass that thinks he's better than those who take longer shots. Big difference between wanting to challenge yourself and someone who openly refers to HUNTERS that take longer shots as "shooters". It speaks volumes about his state of mind.

January 8, 2009, 02:04 PM	#28
TheManHimself Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2008 Posts: 730	Makes me wish we had more hunters like him than the ones who buy a big magnum cannon and glass that looks like it came from the Hubble space telescope, fire 10 shots at the range to sight in, and think they're good to go for 400 yard shots on game. He may be an elitist ass, but at least he's not leaving deer to starve to death with their jaw blown off.

January 8, 2009, 02:14 PM	#29
Smallgame2100 Junior member Join Date: January 8, 2009 Location: New York Posts: 164	I would give him my respect. Anyone with a good rifle can shoot 400 yards and kill what you want. However, its unlikely for people to stalk their prey and kill it. I prefer stalking myself.

January 8, 2009, 04:30 PM	#33
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	At beyond 100-150 I need a dedicated game spotter to point to the critter Brent

January 8, 2009, 06:23 PM	#35
hogdogs Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 31, 2007 Location: Western Florida panhandle Posts: 11,069	Fisherman, My luck says it would go "broken arrow" and circle back for me or my fart signature! Brent

February 23, 2009, 02:48 PM	#38
James R. Burke Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2009 Location: U.P. of Mich/Quinnesec Posts: 1,897	No doubt Daryl stated it right. Each hunter has his or hers limits for alot of differnt reasons. I think if a hunter passes on a shot you got to give them credit for knowing there limits or safety reasons. To many hunters making bad shots. If you dont have placaement there is no way you have a shot.

February 23, 2009, 09:03 PM	#39
ritepath Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2009 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,419	I'll admit I'm a crappy shot when hunting because I always hurry up the shot. If I don't take the time to slow myself down I'll miss every time. I know if I were to say such a thing it would be because of my minds limitations not my rifle. Someone else wants to shoot 400 yards with a 30-30 go for it.

February 24, 2009, 07:03 AM	#41
TonyAR308 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 102	HUNTER vs shooter. Do you spend more time in the woods or on the range?

February 25, 2009, 12:52 PM	#42
pilothunter Junior member Join Date: February 12, 2009 Location: Tn Posts: 400	I'd say that he/she was an ethical hunter who has put some thought into not only that statement, but how they enjoy hunting as well. There are a LOT more rifles capable of 400-500yd lethal performance on deer(big game) than there are hunters, I can guarantee that. In my opinion too many "hunters" buy a rifle after reading the ballistics for the caliber, sighting in at 100yds, and then guessing the range to a deer/elk/antelope/add animal, way yonder. As a matter of fact, most of the 300-500yd shots reported are likely truly much closer to 150-250yds. I've had hunters tell me about 400yd shots they made and then point to some trees 175-200yds away and say that's what the range was. I suppose it's easier for fisherman, especially the one "that got away" to be able to exaggerate on it's size, so all the typical hunter can do is add a hundred or so yards to the distance his/her trophy was shot at (and hopefully collected). I've asked enough hunters a few simple questions about either trajectories or ballistics(or both) to realize that the typical weekend hunter knows little to nothing about either. This is in no way meant to insult anyone, but simply to state my experiences over more than 3 decades of hunting in numerous states and with a bunch of different rifles. I'm sorry, but when I meet a hunter and he's(she's) extolling the long range virtues of their rifle and shooting within the first 10 mins, I'm simply unimpressed, and likely unbelieving, as well. Simply my opinion, of course.

March 2, 2009, 09:44 AM	#43
lockedcj7 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2007 Posts: 1,215	The last part of that statement strikes me as being a little snobbish. I've hunted deer for 25 years or so and I've done it with a bow, muzzleloader and rifle. I've camped, hiked, climbed trees, still-hunted and driven. I've hunted thickets where a rabbit dared to go and I've glassed wide-open spaces from the comfort of a heated blind. And I've killed deer under all of the circumstances above. Like an earlier poster stated, just because I do it the easy way doesn't mean I don't have the skills to do it the hard way. I won't take a shot over 300 yds. because I don't need to. The max distance on my farm is 411 yds (laser ranged). I'm 100% confident that I can take a deer out to 300 yds based on my practice at those ranges. If the deer are farther out, I can wait. I'll be back tomorrow and the deer will likely wander closer. If not, I'll take up a stand closer to them. I'll also take advantage of any rest I can find, even if the shot is 50 yds. The only time I've taken off-hand shots is when I've topped a hill and found deer standing broadside less than 30 yds away. It bugs me when a hunter thinks themselves superior because they're trophy hunters or spot-and-stalk only hunters. It's like dry-fly-only-catch-and-release effete snobs who think they're the only trout fishermen with a conscience. The place I hunt doesn't require all that much effort and I've hunted it for so long that I know where to find deer on any given day. This year was a great example. Toward the end of September, a bachelor group got into the habit of coming out into the edge of a pasture just before dusk. I found a convenient tree and set up a ladder stand. On opening day of ML season, just like clockwork, they popped out of the trees. One was a cull-buck and that's the one I shot. I didn't get another chance to hunt again due to family obligations, illnesses and work. Toward the end of the season, a group of does started showing up in the same spot, same time. I shot one from my shooting bench with a scoped 30-06 from a sand-bagged rest. Total time hunting this season: 2 hours. I could get up at zero-dark-thirty and hike into the woods to sit in a tree all day, and some days I still do. But the bottom line is that I don't have to. That doesn't make me less of a hunter, especially since I'm a meat hunter. __________________ To a much greater extent than most mechanical devices, firearms are terribly unforgiving of any overconfidence, complacency or negligence.

March 2, 2009, 10:23 AM	#45
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Ol' Bambi spends 365 days a year practicing being Bambi. Me, I have other things to do. So, if I can get up close and personal with him, I sorta pat myself on the back. Howsomever, I've worked on being able to play Ma Bell, also. I guess my deal is that I don't want to have to get somewhere close. I don't want to be forced into some style because I didn't make myself able to do better. Some of it comes from intra-family competition. Witnesses have described how my father killed deer out at 400 and 500 yards. Okay, if he could, I can, is the way I've looked at it. I've not all had that many occasions, of course, but that's beside the point. I wanted to have the ability, so I've worked at it. The one time I killed a buck at 450 yards is a fond memory. But another equally fond memory is the time I sneaked up behind a fat little buck and hit him in the butt with a pebble from ten feet away. I'm mostly interested in campfire tales, anyway. I guess I do stuff so I have good yarns to tell.

March 2, 2009, 01:23 PM	#46
OLNfan Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: British Columbia Canada Posts: 277	Very respectful, glad to hear storys of responsible hunters. Last edited by OLNfan; March 2, 2009 at 01:31 PM.

March 6, 2009, 10:54 PM	#47
timinkc Member Join Date: February 23, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 23	nothin beats gettin up close and personal with a wild animal... I always feel like I really did something when I take an animal at close range.

March 7, 2009, 11:06 AM	#48
cornbush Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: The retarded place below Idaho Posts: 1,408	While I may not agree with all of his ideas, I have the utmost respect for hunters who know their limitations and stick to them. I'll be the first to admit I have taken some shots that were a little too long, they resulted in a clean miss or a good hit but probably shouldn't have taken them. Live and learn, at least thats the idea.

March 7, 2009, 11:15 AM	#49
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	timinkc, up close and personal is fun. I was sitting on the ground, leaned up against a tree in wait for Bambi. I noticed motion some twenty feet away in the brush; a fox. I lip-squeaked like unto Little Mousie, and he came closer and closer. Did you know that a fox can instantly turn into a bottle brush when you boink his nose with your boot toe? Raucous laughter does sorta mess up the deer hunting, though.

March 8, 2009, 09:22 AM	#50
PredatorHunter Member Join Date: July 4, 2008 Posts: 34	I say to each there own and what they find enjoyment in. I personally find it getting myself within reasonable range of the animal. To me it's all about the hunt and the animal. I have a rule it has to be bigger then my "last one". It not about trophies to me it's about the animals. I love looking at my mounts and reminising the hunt.