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July 24, 2008, 10:51 PM | #1 |
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SAA can safely load all 6 rounds
Are there any other brands of SAA type revolvers that are safe (for one reason or another) to load all 6 rounds, save for some Ruger's?
Is Ruger the only manufacturer that allows all 6 rounds to be loaded and carried safely in some of their SAA revolvers? |
July 24, 2008, 10:52 PM | #2 |
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Any that have a transfer bar. I know Berettas do.
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July 24, 2008, 11:00 PM | #3 |
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I can with my Pietta Colt clone (as it has a tsb), but the manual still asserts that five is the way to go for safety.
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July 24, 2008, 11:03 PM | #4 |
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The newer Uberti's still have the hammer mounted firing pin but have a hammer block safety. Don't know how reliable it is.
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July 25, 2008, 09:20 AM | #5 |
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My Uberti has a quarter cock notch that activities a wedge between the hammer and the frame, but if you go to use it make sure to push the hammer forward to fully engage it. If you do not push it forward it is still possible to pull the trigger and drop the hammer. The Uberti also has two positions on the cylinder pin; one is a firing position and the other prevents the hammer from hitting a primer.
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July 26, 2008, 09:41 AM | #6 |
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Most SAA will have some type of sliding-block safety that prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin. My Taurus Gaucho has one.
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July 26, 2008, 10:13 AM | #7 | |
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I know I'm going against "universal wisdom" but I always load six, always have. It takes a hammer fall of almost half cock to set off a primer. With the traditional style holsters I use snagging the hammer on anything is pretty much an impossibility as is dropping it out of the holster with the hammer thong tight. I'm not recommending anybody else do this. I'm just saying I do it. Besides back in the old days they didn't load five. Maybe a few did but most loaded six. There were a few Rugers in the 50's that went off and caused some law suits is where the load five came from. |
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July 26, 2008, 10:33 AM | #8 | |
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Hawg,
While I don't agree with you, I'll respect your decision to carry with all chambers loaded; I hope that you don't carry with the hammer down on a loaded, capped chamber in doing so, but are using the between chamber 'safety' pins or notches. Be that as it may, however, I feel I must make a comment on the following statement: Quote:
Certainly my own decision to carry on empty was not the result of some 1950's lawsuit. I familiarized myself with the design and function of the revolvers and applied what to me are sound safety engineering principles. That you have reached a different conclusion than me isn't the issue here. My concern is that you misunderstand the reasons for carrying on empty; it's not because of some lawsuit, but rather rational thought based on the physical reality of the design. That doesn't mean you;re being irrational or wrong, just that we don't agree on the conclusion. I would hope you can see that. |
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July 26, 2008, 11:05 AM | #9 | ||
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July 26, 2008, 12:06 PM | #10 |
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Hawg is right on historically.. You really don't believe that the 'old-timers' carried their o/u deringers with one chamber empty, do you.. Myself, if I feel that I will really need 6 rounds, then that's what I load... I suppose that if you happened to drop your revolver from an appreciable height onto a hard surface, it might cook-off a round (I'm talking safety notch here) . If the gun were on full-cock there would be a loaded round under the hammer anyway..
But as Hawg also states: "Do as I say, not as I do ", safety first.. |
July 26, 2008, 02:07 PM | #11 |
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I do not see any real risk in carrying fully loaded with the hammer down in a holster that has a decent retention system. I probably would not do it myself without a transfer bar safety of some type of firing pin block but I would not consider the dangers of carrying without them all that risky since the biggest risk would be the gun falling out and striking the ground hammer down. The next biggest would be clothing pulling back and releasing the hammer, but again, a good holster will deter than rare event from occurring.
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July 26, 2008, 02:27 PM | #12 | |
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THATS the "physical reality" of the design. I have struck the hammer on my vaquero with an actual hammer, no discharge. besides, you have to be pretty careless to drop a loaded revolver. seen folks do it while practicing "tricks" with an unloaded gun..... |
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July 26, 2008, 06:55 PM | #13 | ||
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I have serious doubts that the "five beans in the wheel" routine came about in the 1950's.
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July 26, 2008, 07:46 PM | #14 | |
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July 26, 2008, 08:15 PM | #15 | |
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July 27, 2008, 02:29 AM | #16 |
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I'm not going to tell anyone how to treat their loaded guns but for myself I like the empty chamber. I don't trust the gun even in a secure holster with a retention strap.
I noticed one time while I was deer hunting I had my 58 Rem in a secure holster and climbed into my truck and sat back and got comfortable. Then I felt something catch the gun holster, it was the metal clip for the seat belt and it was trying to ignite one of the caps outside the hammer slot. It was almost touching and putting a good bit of pressure on the pistol. You can't think of everything but some experiences give insight. That was one of them. Happy shooting. |
July 27, 2008, 06:46 AM | #17 | ||
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On 'experience': No sane person intentionally carries or uses a gun in an unsafe manner. There are thoughtless people who don't understand or pay close enough attention, but for the most part we all try to be safe. The range of options available varies from the ridiculous (never get out of bed in the morning, only to die in an earthquake) to the practical (decide how to handle and carry your gun in a manner that greatly reduces the chances of an inadvertent detonation) - nothing new in that but I thought I'd get it out of the way. When considering what a 'safe manner' is we tend to rely on experience to think of what could happen. We tell ourselves we've thought of everything and thus feel 'safe'. Unfortunately, or perhaps luckily, we don't have the experience of a catastrophic event to teach us the one event that puts a ball in a leg or hip, so experience is not an adequate teacher. The only other thing one can do is take a good look at our practices and the design of the equipment, and see what characteristics can be used to enhance safe handling and carry. The 'safety pins/notches' is one good example - using those doesn't guarantee the hammer won't get pulled back far enough to bring a round into battery, but it sure a lot safer than carry the hammer down on a loaded, capped chamber. It just makes sense to use them. Is there anything else? Yes, putting the hammer down on an empty chamber. It IS safer because the hammer has to move farther and the cylinder has to rotate twice as far to bring the loaded chamber into battery. How much safer? Enough to make giving up that round worth it? What are the chances I'll actually need that round versus inadvertently shooting myself in the leg? Tough questions to answer. Nobody can answer them for you. And so there is no single 'right' answer. But, at least we're thinking about what we're doing. As we all know, there are people out there using guns that aren't. |
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July 27, 2008, 09:07 AM | #18 | ||||
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July 27, 2008, 10:10 AM | #19 |
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I was hunting in 1970 with an old model Blackhawk (30 carbine). I had already shot it twice, so it was sitting on an empty chamber. It was in a holster also. I was crawling between the wires of a fence, putting the sneak on the next victim when I felt something and I looked down and back in time to see the fence wire thumb back the hammer then let it go. It rotated the cylinder but did not catch the full cock notch.
The bullet entered my right leg just outside of my kneecap, followed the bone down to my ankle bone and then exited out through the side of my boot. The hospital was 60 miles away, and the surgeon told me he removed over 2 pounds of damaged meat out of the side of my leg, and put in 84 stitches to close it, 42 inside and 42 outside. I sold that gun soon afterwards and bought a .45 New Model with the transfer bar. I made a new holster that has a hammer thong. I hunt with the gun, and load 6, but the hammer is tied down and the trigger guard is closed so that the only way the gun can discharge is for me to release the hammer tie, then pull the gun from the holster. It cannot leave the security of the holster by accident. This isnt a black powder story, but I thought I would share it with you all as a personal experience.
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July 27, 2008, 02:02 PM | #20 |
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That's ok, I started this thread as a kind of quasi Ruger thread anyway.
My question is for the folks that feel loading a 6th round is safe enough for them. Do you follow this procedure at the target range? Plinking field? Or just breaking bottles with your buddies? Do you feel this is a safe practice with others around you? No knock intended, I'm just curious if you modify this practice due to external factors and circumstances like an audience or spectators? |
July 27, 2008, 02:12 PM | #21 |
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I don't shoot at public ranges. SASS only allows five except for C&B then you can load six and leave one chamber uncapped. If I've got a SA revolver it's loaded full up. If I go hunting with one or just out shooting and other people are going to be around me I'll tell them it is, it's up to them whether to go with me or not.
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July 27, 2008, 04:26 PM | #22 |
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Just for the record, if you shoot yourself in the foot, are you going to sue the gunmaker?
Ruger didn't go to transfer bars for the fun of it, they lost multiple lawsuits by people who shot themselves through failing to read the instructions. |
July 27, 2008, 05:05 PM | #23 | ||
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I know them inside and out. I bought my first 58 Remington with my own money when I was 12. Carried it on an almost daily basis till I was 15. I'm not advocating anybody else do it. I mainly brought it up because IMHO it wasn't done by the vast majority of gun owners back in the day. Those lawsuits you mentioned are when loading five got so much attention. |
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July 27, 2008, 05:05 PM | #24 |
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The early single action revolver is arguable the most dangerous firearm one can possess. These accidental shootings fall into the realm of freak accidents. There are so many variables to consider. People say caps are safe, I agree but at what point? Is there a sharp edge on the nipple? Whats the temperature? Has the gun been exposed to direct sunlight?
I blackpowder deer hunt and I know from experience carrying BP rifle and pistol that you can't turn your back on these things. I had an ash fall off a cigarette one time and the wind almost blew it into my open holster. Freak accident?, yes it could have been, but I was lucky that day. Also I remember something about people rolling up a dollar bill and putting it in that empty chamber. Don't know where I got that from an old movie maybe. Anyway it went that it could end up being your last dollar and you always hung on to your last dollar. A dollar being a good amount of money once upon a time.............I always remembered that. Last edited by marcseatac; July 27, 2008 at 05:27 PM. Reason: add more |
July 27, 2008, 05:22 PM | #25 |
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The old timers did not buy a six-shooter and then carry five rounds. All that "five beans" and "$20 in a chamber" baloney was invented by Colt's lawyers in the modern era.
The old timers used the safety notch for what it was intended for, but in the Colt SAA (and many other SA revolvers) any hard blow on the hammer will break the trigger and allow the firing pin to reach the primer of a round under the hammer. They also carried the SA with the hammer down between rounds, quite safe and easy to do with any caliber but .45 Colt. Jim |
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