Quigley rifle misrepresented

ChuckWagonKen · November 12, 2014, 12:50 PM

Many makers are misleading the shooters wanting to get in BP rifles, in particular the “Quigley”
rifle. They Market there “replica” rifle as the “Quigley” Buffalo rifle, amongst others. Then list it as a .45-70 With Barrels 30” & under. & some with Tapered octagons or round, Without vernier sight. Not the .45-110, 34” straight Octs. We so much admire & love.
Don't know how they can justify this, Just a heads up for the BP shooters wanting one.
Personally I want a replica Remington rolling block (Better in the prone, for Me, a 70% Disabled
USMC RVN vet, thank you very much.) Pedersoli only goes up to .45-90
So My search for .45-110 or 120 rolling block goes on Perhaps the factory
style action cant handle it. however anything can be made!
ChuckWagonKen
Out.

HiBC · November 12, 2014, 01:32 PM

I recall having the same fascination for those big cases.
I recommend Venturino 's book "Shooting the BPCR"
I do not pretend to be an expert on this,I'm not.
It could be the law of diminishing returns gets in the way.
There is something about the fouling characteristics of larger powder charges.

A few rounds from a 45-120 and the throat is so fouled chambering a round becomes difficult.

There is more,but the feedback I have heard is that most folks who get a 45-120 find it regrettable.

We had an excellent black powder Rifleworks in town,before the proprietor passed,and I got my feedback there.

The Rolling block has a little trouble with overly long rounds.You have to grind a trough through the top of the breech block correction,hammer, to allow the round in the chamber.
Good luck!!

http://www.bpcr.net/forum/

http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/

http://www.shopspg.net/Black-Powder-...iption-bpn.htm

Jim Watson · November 12, 2014, 03:13 PM

Agree with HiBC, the Rolling Block is not well suited to long cartridges.
Ken Waters had a Navy Arms in .458 RCBS which turned out to be a .45x2.75" and the hammer still had to be relieved to clear loaded rounds.

You might look at the Remington Hepburn No 3, the side lever dropping block.
http://www.dzhepburn.com/

But I don't have any trouble with underlever Winchester Single Shot and Browning "Highwall" in prone position over short cross sticks.

T. O'Heir · November 12, 2014, 03:35 PM

"...in particular the “Quigley”..." There's no such thing historically. Unless you think Selleck is anything but an actor. Marketing types know how daft people are and know that stuff seen in movies sells. Sales of Smith 29's go up after and Dirty Harry movie airs too.
The movie rifle was a .45-100 and was made by Shiloh Rifle company (Powder River Rifle Company). Starts at: $3464.
THERE is directional, not possessive.

Jim Watson · November 12, 2014, 05:53 PM

I thought .45-110 in Winchester nomenclature.
Sharps just gave the case length, 2 7/8", because different loads were available.

True, just a movie prop, with shiny brass patchbox and long barrel to look good on screen when brandished by a tall actor. The shooting balance is dreadful and the narrow butt will amplify recoil.

If you want something to shoot, you will be more comfortable with a No 1 Sporting Rifle with shotgun butt, pistol grip, and 30" barrel.

But in my opinion, the No 1 "English Rifle" model of 1877 is the class act.

bedbugbilly · November 12, 2014, 09:14 PM

First - welcome to the forum!

All a "marketing ploy". If there's not a copyright on it, you could use it to describe everything from a horse with three legs to a new cucumber for pickles.

In the end, it's up to YOU to decide if it is what you want and to do your "homework" in regards to it. How much different is it really than a lot of the C & B revolves being touted as "Confederate", "Union", "SSheriff's Model", etc. Or a "android" phone?

Barnacle Brad · November 12, 2014, 10:55 PM

Quote:

There's no such thing historically.

First, this is an incomplete sentence - it lacks a subject. Perhaps you meant to say "There is no such thing historically as a "Quigley Buffalo Rifle".

Is that a true statement though? There is a Quigley Buffalo Rifle Match. The match has twenty three years of history. There are period correct rifles shot at that match. Could those be Quigley Buffalo Rifles? Maybe the 1874 Sharps rifle being produced today that reference a movie character (Matthew Quigley), and have been shot at the Quigley Match are Quigley Buffalo Rifles?

Quote:

The movie rifle was a .45-100

Says who? Not Tom Selleck who owns all three rifles produced for the movie.
Quigley_Down_Under

Quote:

Then list it as a .45-70 With Barrels 30” & under. & some with Tapered octagons or round, Without vernier sight. Not the .45-110, 34” straight Octs.

1874 SHARPS BUFFALO - "QUIGLEY®"

Military Buttstock
Patch Box
No Cheek rest
No Pistol Grip
Standard Grade Wood
34” Heavy Octagon Barrel
45/70 or 45-110 Caliber
Pewter Tip
Hartford Collar
Double Set Triggers
Semi Buckhorn Rear Sight
Midrange Vernier Tang Sight
#111 Globe Aperture Front Sight
Antique or Std Color Finish (specify)
2 or 3 Gold Inlay Initials in Gold Oval

Curious, George...

mehavey · November 12, 2014, 10:57 PM

All black powder:
● 45-70 Lonestar Rolling Block
● 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps
● 45-90 Pedersoli Bodine Rolling Block
● 45-120 Shiloh Sharps (`81 Farmingdale) Long Range Express.

Guess which one is the safe queen ?

.

Jim Watson · November 13, 2014, 12:14 AM

I saw a full house Quigley type from The Other Place In Big Timber (C. Sharps).
It looked good but the he-man who ordered it got it in the anachronistic monster .45x3.25" (.45-120). I never saw or had a report of him actually shooting it even though he had bought it with dies and brass.

Of course Shiloh offers the Quigley Model in .45-70 because not everybody is dedicated to the tedious handloading of real BPCR ammo, especially not with the extra work of paper patching and want to buy their stuff at the hardware store.

ChuckWagonKen · November 16, 2014, 02:23 PM

First I must thank those of you with intelligent positive feedback.
you brought out much valuable information I can make good use of.
I was aware of diminished returns, I Like the blast, flame & smoke though!
Had not considered the feed problem for the rolling block though, nice call.
Guess I'll go with the .45-90, for the rolling block, thank you all.
OH! yes, I'm so sorry that "Poindexter" was so confused & unable to
understand my post, cuzz of eye not beein Gramarattiklee correct.
Fortunately there are those of you with common sense, who are secure in
themselves well enough to be a benefit to others
OK, now knock youreself out proffessor!
ChuckWagonKen.

Hawg · November 16, 2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

The movie rifle was a .45-100

The movie rifle was converted to 45-110.

Jim Watson · November 16, 2014, 03:25 PM

From the dialogue and prop gun appearance, it seems that Quigley's rifle was depicted as having been converted from a percussion 1859 to cartridge.

November 12, 2014, 01:32 PM	#2
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	I recall having the same fascination for those big cases. I recommend Venturino 's book "Shooting the BPCR" I do not pretend to be an expert on this,I'm not. It could be the law of diminishing returns gets in the way. There is something about the fouling characteristics of larger powder charges. A few rounds from a 45-120 and the throat is so fouled chambering a round becomes difficult. There is more,but the feedback I have heard is that most folks who get a 45-120 find it regrettable. We had an excellent black powder Rifleworks in town,before the proprietor passed,and I got my feedback there. The Rolling block has a little trouble with overly long rounds.You have to grind a trough through the top of the breech block correction,hammer, to allow the round in the chamber. Good luck!! http://www.bpcr.net/forum/ http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ http://www.shopspg.net/Black-Powder-...iption-bpn.htm Last edited by HiBC; November 12, 2014 at 03:49 PM.

November 12, 2014, 03:35 PM	#4
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...in particular the “Quigley”..." There's no such thing historically. Unless you think Selleck is anything but an actor. Marketing types know how daft people are and know that stuff seen in movies sells. Sales of Smith 29's go up after and Dirty Harry movie airs too. The movie rifle was a .45-100 and was made by Shiloh Rifle company (Powder River Rifle Company). Starts at: $3464. THERE is directional, not possessive. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 12, 2014, 09:14 PM	#6
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	First - welcome to the forum! All a "marketing ploy". If there's not a copyright on it, you could use it to describe everything from a horse with three legs to a new cucumber for pickles. In the end, it's up to YOU to decide if it is what you want and to do your "homework" in regards to it. How much different is it really than a lot of the C & B revolves being touted as "Confederate", "Union", "SSheriff's Model", etc. Or a "android" phone? __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

November 16, 2014, 02:23 PM	#10
ChuckWagonKen Junior Member Join Date: April 8, 2014 Posts: 2	Quigley post feedback First I must thank those of you with intelligent positive feedback. you brought out much valuable information I can make good use of. I was aware of diminished returns, I Like the blast, flame & smoke though! Had not considered the feed problem for the rolling block though, nice call. Guess I'll go with the .45-90, for the rolling block, thank you all. OH! yes, I'm so sorry that "Poindexter" was so confused & unable to understand my post, cuzz of eye not beein Gramarattiklee correct. Fortunately there are those of you with common sense, who are secure in themselves well enough to be a benefit to others OK, now knock youreself out proffessor! ChuckWagonKen.

November 12, 2014, 12:50 PM	#1
ChuckWagonKen Junior Member Join Date: April 8, 2014 Posts: 2	Quigley rifle misrepresented Many makers are misleading the shooters wanting to get in BP rifles, in particular the “Quigley” rifle. They Market there “replica” rifle as the “Quigley” Buffalo rifle, amongst others. Then list it as a .45-70 With Barrels 30” & under. & some with Tapered octagons or round, Without vernier sight. Not the .45-110, 34” straight Octs. We so much admire & love. Don't know how they can justify this, Just a heads up for the BP shooters wanting one. Personally I want a replica Remington rolling block (Better in the prone, for Me, a 70% Disabled USMC RVN vet, thank you very much.) Pedersoli only goes up to .45-90 So My search for .45-110 or 120 rolling block goes on Perhaps the factory style action cant handle it. however anything can be made! ChuckWagonKen Out.

November 12, 2014, 03:13 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Agree with HiBC, the Rolling Block is not well suited to long cartridges. Ken Waters had a Navy Arms in .458 RCBS which turned out to be a .45x2.75" and the hammer still had to be relieved to clear loaded rounds. You might look at the Remington Hepburn No 3, the side lever dropping block. http://www.dzhepburn.com/ But I don't have any trouble with underlever Winchester Single Shot and Browning "Highwall" in prone position over short cross sticks.

November 12, 2014, 05:53 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I thought .45-110 in Winchester nomenclature. Sharps just gave the case length, 2 7/8", because different loads were available. True, just a movie prop, with shiny brass patchbox and long barrel to look good on screen when brandished by a tall actor. The shooting balance is dreadful and the narrow butt will amplify recoil. If you want something to shoot, you will be more comfortable with a No 1 Sporting Rifle with shotgun butt, pistol grip, and 30" barrel. But in my opinion, the No 1 "English Rifle" model of 1877 is the class act.

November 12, 2014, 10:57 PM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,894	All black powder: ● 45-70 Lonestar Rolling Block ● 45-70 Pedersoli Sharps ● 45-90 Pedersoli Bodine Rolling Block ● 45-120 Shiloh Sharps (`81 Farmingdale) Long Range Express. Guess which one is the safe queen ? .

November 13, 2014, 12:14 AM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I saw a full house Quigley type from The Other Place In Big Timber (C. Sharps). It looked good but the he-man who ordered it got it in the anachronistic monster .45x3.25" (.45-120). I never saw or had a report of him actually shooting it even though he had bought it with dies and brass. Of course Shiloh offers the Quigley Model in .45-70 because not everybody is dedicated to the tedious handloading of real BPCR ammo, especially not with the extra work of paper patching and want to buy their stuff at the hardware store.

November 16, 2014, 03:25 PM	#12
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	From the dialogue and prop gun appearance, it seems that Quigley's rifle was depicted as having been converted from a percussion 1859 to cartridge.