Layman DPS 3 consistency problems

lt dan · June 5, 2011, 02:08 PM

due to the fact that i hunt regularly, i have decided to upgrade to a electronic dispenser scale. two day ago i bought the DPS 3. now my problem is when the scale is finished dispensing , an alarms goes of signaling that the load is ready lets say 43grns. i then remove the load, but if i put that load back on the scale the reading differs. i make sure to warm up the scale every time. but i still have problems with consistency.

so to recap: i get one reading when the buzzers goes of 43grn, i then the remove the load using the small bucket, i wait 3-6seconds, when i replace the bucket the reading will differ, sometimes with as much as 1 grain. but most of the times with about .3-.8 of a grain.

any suggestions?

lt dan · June 8, 2011, 01:51 AM

no taker no sugestion?? cant be!

steve4102 · June 8, 2011, 07:11 AM

These are very sensitive devices and certain outside forces can affect them. Make sure your area is free from drafts, heat or air ducts. Cell phones, loud music and computers can cause erratic behavior. These units should not be on the same bench as your press or other mechanical devices that can jar, rattle of shack the bench.

Have you tried dumping a charge and double checking it on your balance beam scale? BTW, whats a "Small Bucket"?

wncchester · June 8, 2011, 07:17 AM

'...no taker no sugestion?? cant be! "

Okay: get a beam scale. ??

Gbro · June 8, 2011, 07:51 AM

From how you describe your problem I would think you would have the same outcome on a balance beam scale.
You have to load the scale at very near the same rate each time.
When I recheck loads I always have to spill the powder back onto the scale very slowly.
Maybe the electronic scales are even more touchy?

wncchester · June 8, 2011, 01:16 PM

"From how you describe your problem I would think you would have the same outcome on a balance beam scale."

I don't.

SL1 · June 8, 2011, 01:35 PM

On a beam balance scale, the rate at which you dump the powder into the pan should NOT make any difference in the final reading. If it does, then you probably have dust on the scales knife edge and balance point. Clean them carefully with a Q-tip and make SURE you don't leave a fine cotton strand from the Q-tip when you do that.

On electronic scales, I also find that I can slowly trickle powder into the pan without changing the reading, then pick the pan up and set it right back down and get a different reading. (That is one reason I have not decided to pay >$200 for an automatic charge throwing device that is based on an electronic scale.)

I am betting that the correct weight is what your scale says when you remove and replace the pan. You can find out by checking with a beam balance. As you noted, the difference between where the scale stops the powder dispenser and the weight at pan replacement is NOT always the same. And I don't have any good ideas on how to make it the same so that you can make an offset and realiably get a charge to within 0.1 or 0.2 grains, or even 0.5 grains.

SL1

lt dan · June 11, 2011, 03:51 PM

small bucket= pan

thanks for the feedback. this scale turned out to be a pricey purchase, because i knew i had to buy a balance scale to verify my dps 3's loads. so i got myself a new RCBS 5 0 5 yesterday and started weighing today. i dont want to bore you with all the scheme's i concocted to get the dps 3 to work properly, but a few were: ran the power through a ups, no mobile phones. eventually i got some performance from the dps. i think i can use it to load my hunting loads, but if i ever wanted to test a load i will only use the 5 0 5.

deepcore · June 11, 2011, 05:17 PM

I sent my Lyman in for service last week because it was behaving like it was taken over by Decepticons.

Without anything on the scale except for the pan it the screen would read 0 to 30 grains or so (up and down) on it's own. I tried everything customer support said: Don't use an extension cord, don't keep it near anything electronic (even a flourescent light bulb), wiped it down with fabric softener sheet, take of the silver base and brush out and granules, etc. Nothing worked so they finally said send it in. It was touchy to begin with. I built an adjustable mount for it that I could level the unit front-back and side to side. Breathing would make it move.

When it was working: I noticed the tendency to read over what you set it for after it (supposedly) stopped at the pre-set charge weight. I think it may be due to the trickler mechanism not stopping fast enough. So what I would do is set the charge weight some .10s lower than I wanted and used manual trickler to bring it up the last few tenths. I crossed checked the weights every so often with my beam.

Tim R · June 12, 2011, 05:44 PM

I have the old Lyman DPS. Also just saw your post. I bought the Lyman because it was cheaper than the RCBS but almost wonder if I shouldn’t have spent the extra $. Reviews of late have not been good on any of the Lyman’s or RCBS dispensers so who knows. I bought the Lyman after it took me five hours to beam scale out 100 rounds of 308 for a match.

I use the Lyman to finish off powder charges. I dump in a charge which is close, then let the machine finish it. I watch the empty pan weight which seems to wonder around. My empty pan weight is always around 129.9. If this weight goes up or down it throws the end weight off. I also check the weight reading after the beep, with the reading being right on or sometimes a little heavy/light.

If the empty pan weight reading is off, I re-cal by just using the pan and the reading goes back to 129.9. This seems to stabilize the scale for awhile anyways. Some times I have to cal from the start with the 20 gram weight. Some times the unit just wants to be cranky and I warm it again. If any powder grains make it under the scale it will throw it off and a blast of dust off normally takes care of this.

I use my Lyman for loading match 223, 308 and ’06. I am going to load some more hunting ammo but I believe the beam scale and Lyman are off by .02 grains which throws off my groups using the Lyman.

lt dan · June 13, 2011, 07:04 AM

Tim, Deepcore, and some other members: the feedback i get here on tfl is more or less the same as the local view of these kinds of electronic scales.

some guys goes go through all kinds of rituals before they start loading. a local reloader e-mailed me list of about 17 things he makes sure of before he starts weighing. these scales seem temperamental. no self respecting reloader will take this kind on grief from a balance scale.

it is my opinion that the technology that one need to affordable manufacture these kinds of scales doesn't yet exist.

Tim R · June 13, 2011, 01:21 PM

Dan. using the DPS is still faster than using a beam scale for match loads. I have won matches and money with these reloads.

Inspector3711 · June 13, 2011, 01:45 PM

I've had the DPS3 for several years and have yet to see any issues with repeatability that I couldn't explain away as wind related or my mistake. One thing you should make sure of is that the unit should be flat on the bench so it can't rock.

I wouldn't have an electronic scale without having a beam scale first. I occasionally double check my electronically dispensed loads against my beam scale. They are always within .1 grains of each other.

It's also great to have a beam scale in case the power goes out in a storm which it does fairly often where I live.

Tim R · June 16, 2011, 12:03 AM

Quote:

I've had the DPS3 for several years and have yet to see any issues with repeatability that I couldn't explain away as wind related or my mistake. One thing you should make sure of is that the unit should be flat on the bench so it can't rock.

Mine has always been on a bench that is level and will not move......You must be one of the lucky ones

Marco Califo · June 16, 2011, 04:54 PM

I tried an electronic scale. The experience taught me to fully appreciate a Lyman balance beam scale. I get consistent results I can trust every time!

June 5, 2011, 02:08 PM	#1
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	Layman DPS 3 consistency problems due to the fact that i hunt regularly, i have decided to upgrade to a electronic dispenser scale. two day ago i bought the DPS 3. now my problem is when the scale is finished dispensing , an alarms goes of signaling that the load is ready lets say 43grns. i then remove the load, but if i put that load back on the scale the reading differs. i make sure to warm up the scale every time. but i still have problems with consistency. so to recap: i get one reading when the buzzers goes of 43grn, i then the remove the load using the small bucket, i wait 3-6seconds, when i replace the bucket the reading will differ, sometimes with as much as 1 grain. but most of the times with about .3-.8 of a grain. any suggestions? __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans

June 8, 2011, 01:51 AM	#2
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	no taker no sugestion?? cant be! __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans

June 8, 2011, 07:51 AM	#5
Gbro Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,084	From how you describe your problem I would think you would have the same outcome on a balance beam scale. You have to load the scale at very near the same rate each time. When I recheck loads I always have to spill the powder back onto the scale very slowly. Maybe the electronic scales are even more touchy? __________________ Gbro CGVS For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18

June 11, 2011, 03:51 PM	#8
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	small bucket= pan thanks for the feedback. this scale turned out to be a pricey purchase, because i knew i had to buy a balance scale to verify my dps 3's loads. so i got myself a new RCBS 5 0 5 yesterday and started weighing today. i dont want to bore you with all the scheme's i concocted to get the dps 3 to work properly, but a few were: ran the power through a ups, no mobile phones. eventually i got some performance from the dps. i think i can use it to load my hunting loads, but if i ever wanted to test a load i will only use the 5 0 5. __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans

June 12, 2011, 05:44 PM	#10
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	I have the old Lyman DPS. Also just saw your post. I bought the Lyman because it was cheaper than the RCBS but almost wonder if I shouldn’t have spent the extra $. Reviews of late have not been good on any of the Lyman’s or RCBS dispensers so who knows. I bought the Lyman after it took me five hours to beam scale out 100 rounds of 308 for a match. I use the Lyman to finish off powder charges. I dump in a charge which is close, then let the machine finish it. I watch the empty pan weight which seems to wonder around. My empty pan weight is always around 129.9. If this weight goes up or down it throws the end weight off. I also check the weight reading after the beep, with the reading being right on or sometimes a little heavy/light. If the empty pan weight reading is off, I re-cal by just using the pan and the reading goes back to 129.9. This seems to stabilize the scale for awhile anyways. Some times I have to cal from the start with the 20 gram weight. Some times the unit just wants to be cranky and I warm it again. If any powder grains make it under the scale it will throw it off and a blast of dust off normally takes care of this. I use my Lyman for loading match 223, 308 and ’06. I am going to load some more hunting ammo but I believe the beam scale and Lyman are off by .02 grains which throws off my groups using the Lyman. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

June 8, 2011, 07:11 AM	#3
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	These are very sensitive devices and certain outside forces can affect them. Make sure your area is free from drafts, heat or air ducts. Cell phones, loud music and computers can cause erratic behavior. These units should not be on the same bench as your press or other mechanical devices that can jar, rattle of shack the bench. Have you tried dumping a charge and double checking it on your balance beam scale? BTW, whats a "Small Bucket"?

June 8, 2011, 07:17 AM	#4
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	'...no taker no sugestion?? cant be! " Okay: get a beam scale. ??

June 8, 2011, 01:16 PM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"From how you describe your problem I would think you would have the same outcome on a balance beam scale." I don't.

June 8, 2011, 01:35 PM	#7
SL1 Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2007 Posts: 2,001	On a beam balance scale, the rate at which you dump the powder into the pan should NOT make any difference in the final reading. If it does, then you probably have dust on the scales knife edge and balance point. Clean them carefully with a Q-tip and make SURE you don't leave a fine cotton strand from the Q-tip when you do that. On electronic scales, I also find that I can slowly trickle powder into the pan without changing the reading, then pick the pan up and set it right back down and get a different reading. (That is one reason I have not decided to pay >$200 for an automatic charge throwing device that is based on an electronic scale.) I am betting that the correct weight is what your scale says when you remove and replace the pan. You can find out by checking with a beam balance. As you noted, the difference between where the scale stops the powder dispenser and the weight at pan replacement is NOT always the same. And I don't have any good ideas on how to make it the same so that you can make an offset and realiably get a charge to within 0.1 or 0.2 grains, or even 0.5 grains. SL1

June 11, 2011, 05:17 PM	#9
deepcore Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2010 Posts: 364	I sent my Lyman in for service last week because it was behaving like it was taken over by Decepticons. Without anything on the scale except for the pan it the screen would read 0 to 30 grains or so (up and down) on it's own. I tried everything customer support said: Don't use an extension cord, don't keep it near anything electronic (even a flourescent light bulb), wiped it down with fabric softener sheet, take of the silver base and brush out and granules, etc. Nothing worked so they finally said send it in. It was touchy to begin with. I built an adjustable mount for it that I could level the unit front-back and side to side. Breathing would make it move. When it was working: I noticed the tendency to read over what you set it for after it (supposedly) stopped at the pre-set charge weight. I think it may be due to the trickler mechanism not stopping fast enough. So what I would do is set the charge weight some .10s lower than I wanted and used manual trickler to bring it up the last few tenths. I crossed checked the weights every so often with my beam.

June 13, 2011, 07:04 AM	#11
lt dan Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2008 Location: south africa Posts: 328	Tim, Deepcore, and some other members: the feedback i get here on tfl is more or less the same as the local view of these kinds of electronic scales. some guys goes go through all kinds of rituals before they start loading. a local reloader e-mailed me list of about 17 things he makes sure of before he starts weighing. these scales seem temperamental. no self respecting reloader will take this kind on grief from a balance scale. it is my opinion that the technology that one need to affordable manufacture these kinds of scales doesn't yet exist. __________________ If youth is wasted on the young, then Africa is wasted on the Africans

June 13, 2011, 01:21 PM	#12
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	Dan. using the DPS is still faster than using a beam scale for match loads. I have won matches and money with these reloads. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

June 13, 2011, 01:45 PM	#13
Inspector3711 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: Puget Sound Washington Posts: 1,553	I've had the DPS3 for several years and have yet to see any issues with repeatability that I couldn't explain away as wind related or my mistake. One thing you should make sure of is that the unit should be flat on the bench so it can't rock. I wouldn't have an electronic scale without having a beam scale first. I occasionally double check my electronically dispensed loads against my beam scale. They are always within .1 grains of each other. It's also great to have a beam scale in case the power goes out in a storm which it does fairly often where I live. __________________ "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." The Dalai Llama (5/15/01, The Seattle Times) "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." George Orwell

June 16, 2011, 04:54 PM	#15
Marco Califo Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2011 Location: LA (Greater Los Angeles Area) Posts: 2,598	I tried an electronic scale I tried an electronic scale. The experience taught me to fully appreciate a Lyman balance beam scale. I get consistent results I can trust every time!