Help! 1914 Winchester 1894

ga nopro · October 15, 2009, 09:05 PM

Help please with info on a 1914 Winchester 1894 32ws nickle steel - 20" plain barrel, magazine stops short of barrel muzzle by 5 1/4", plastic Win buttstock is not cresant. Nothing adds up for me. No saddle ring, no checkering, correct sn for 1914. What the heck do I have? Can add different pics too. Appreciate any help. Thanks!

RJay · October 15, 2009, 09:42 PM

Don't know, but it sounds a lot like a Lightweight rifle " 22" or 26" round barrel with half magazine,. Plain walnut straight-grip stock, with shotgun butt plate" and saddle rings were only on the carbines. If I were to take a guess with out pictures, that would be my first go. 94's were made any such way you can imagine. You could even special order any doo dahs you could think of. So far I've read nothing special, how about those pictures.

Hard Ball · October 16, 2009, 12:07 PM

Post pictures please

James K · October 16, 2009, 02:50 PM

The following is based on the assumption that the gun is a carbine, and not a rifle with a cut down barrel.

Saddle ring first. Earlier, a saddle ring was put on each carbine unless the customer wanted it left off. By 1914, Winchester put rings on carbines shipped to the western states, but not on ones destined for the east. Later, they put them on only by special order. So the absence of the ring means nothing.

The standard buttplate for carbines was steel, but with a shallower crescent than the rifle buttplate, but on special order Winchester would put on straight shotgun type hard rubber* buttplates with the Winchester trademark moulded in. Checkering of the stock was available only as a special option. (Of course, any buttplate might be a replacement, or the entire buttstock may be a replacement.)

The short magazine could also have been a special order. If it had been cut down, there should be signs of the full length magazine on the barrel. Again assuming it is a carbine, it looks like you may have a standard carbine with a few special order items; not too unusual and bringing only a slight premium in a sale.

*Hard rubber or gutta percha was a natural product, but used the same way plastic is used today. It could be moulded into various shapes and was widely used for long gun buttplates and in pistol and revolver grips. It has the disadvantage of becoming very brittle over time, so today those parts are very fragile.

Jim

30-30remchester · October 16, 2009, 07:39 PM

To expound on what Jin Keenan said abov, Winchester also produced what was called a lightweight or sporting carbine. These were standard carbine with a thinner buttstock with gutta percha buttplate and an abreviated magazine tube. Mine has the 2/3rds magazine tube and it is 6 3/4" short of the muzzle. Winchester did produce varying lengths of magazine tubes. A photo will help identify your firearm.

DavidFagan · October 18, 2009, 11:40 AM

Not to be a__l but Gutta purcha or hard plastic? I haven't seen anything after the 1900's that was Gutta purcha on a firearm, even in the 1890's the recipe was changing although it did exhibit some of the same light effected fading and oil in the hand color changing characteristics. For example the Remington 1890 grips are not Gutta purcha but certainly act like it

**Mike Irwin** · October 18, 2009, 12:02 PM

Hard rubber remained a viable grip and buttplate material, although less and less used, until after World War I.

Steel was the primary buttplate material for many rifle and shotgun manufacturers, but hard rubber was used, especially on light recoiling guns like .22s and light shotguns.

S&W used hard rubber grips on its early hand ejectors revolvers up until at least 1910.

The earliest commercial plastics, including celluloid and Bakelite were seldom, if ever used for gun grips. Celluloid was too flexible, and bakelite was far too brittle.

Plastic didn't truly come into their own until the 1930s with the invention of nylon, and it wasn't until after the major advances brought about by World War II that plastics became durable enough to stand the pounding that a firearm could dish out.

ga nopro · October 19, 2009, 10:10 AM

Some more Winchester 1894 pictures to help with identification of my rifle/carbine. Just noticed today the (screw?) hole in bottom of barrel in fromt of mag. Was the mag shortened? Was this an accepted practice, and why? What's it's value in this cond? thanks!

30-30remchester · October 19, 2009, 12:58 PM

You have a rifle version of an 1894 Winchester. The giveaway is the cap that holds the forearm to the barrel. Carbines used a band that went all the way around the barrel and forearm. The hole in the barrel is not original. The gun has been reblued and refinished sometime in the past. The buttplate is a "shotgun" type which is original.The barrel lenght is a little suspect also, Winchester did built 20" barreled rifles however MOST of the time they used a forearm an inch shorter than yours.

ga nopro · October 20, 2009, 07:22 PM

Thank you all for your input! I knew I was @ the best place for Good information. Ga Nopro-----North Ga.

October 16, 2009, 12:07 PM	#3
Hard Ball Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 1999 Location: California Posts: 3,925	Post pictures please __________________ "I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."

October 18, 2009, 12:02 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Hard rubber remained a viable grip and buttplate material, although less and less used, until after World War I. Steel was the primary buttplate material for many rifle and shotgun manufacturers, but hard rubber was used, especially on light recoiling guns like .22s and light shotguns. S&W used hard rubber grips on its early hand ejectors revolvers up until at least 1910. The earliest commercial plastics, including celluloid and Bakelite were seldom, if ever used for gun grips. Celluloid was too flexible, and bakelite was far too brittle. Plastic didn't truly come into their own until the 1930s with the invention of nylon, and it wasn't until after the major advances brought about by World War II that plastics became durable enough to stand the pounding that a firearm could dish out. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 20, 2009, 07:22 PM	#10
ga nopro Member Join Date: August 20, 2007 Location: Metro Atlanta Posts: 24	win 1894 Thank you all for your input! I knew I was @ the best place for Good information. Ga Nopro-----North Ga. __________________ Perpetual Ignorance is satisfaction with one's opinions and contentment with one's knowledge. *Baston C. Elm

October 15, 2009, 09:42 PM	#2
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Don't know, but it sounds a lot like a Lightweight rifle " 22" or 26" round barrel with half magazine,. Plain walnut straight-grip stock, with shotgun butt plate" and saddle rings were only on the carbines. If I were to take a guess with out pictures, that would be my first go. 94's were made any such way you can imagine. You could even special order any doo dahs you could think of. So far I've read nothing special, how about those pictures.

October 16, 2009, 02:50 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The following is based on the assumption that the gun is a carbine, and not a rifle with a cut down barrel. Saddle ring first. Earlier, a saddle ring was put on each carbine unless the customer wanted it left off. By 1914, Winchester put rings on carbines shipped to the western states, but not on ones destined for the east. Later, they put them on only by special order. So the absence of the ring means nothing. The standard buttplate for carbines was steel, but with a shallower crescent than the rifle buttplate, but on special order Winchester would put on straight shotgun type hard rubber* buttplates with the Winchester trademark moulded in. Checkering of the stock was available only as a special option. (Of course, any buttplate might be a replacement, or the entire buttstock may be a replacement.) The short magazine could also have been a special order. If it had been cut down, there should be signs of the full length magazine on the barrel. Again assuming it is a carbine, it looks like you may have a standard carbine with a few special order items; not too unusual and bringing only a slight premium in a sale. *Hard rubber or gutta percha was a natural product, but used the same way plastic is used today. It could be moulded into various shapes and was widely used for long gun buttplates and in pistol and revolver grips. It has the disadvantage of becoming very brittle over time, so today those parts are very fragile. Jim

October 16, 2009, 07:39 PM	#5
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	To expound on what Jin Keenan said abov, Winchester also produced what was called a lightweight or sporting carbine. These were standard carbine with a thinner buttstock with gutta percha buttplate and an abreviated magazine tube. Mine has the 2/3rds magazine tube and it is 6 3/4" short of the muzzle. Winchester did produce varying lengths of magazine tubes. A photo will help identify your firearm.

October 18, 2009, 11:40 AM	#6
DavidFagan Junior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Posts: 11	Not to be a__l but Gutta purcha or hard plastic? I haven't seen anything after the 1900's that was Gutta purcha on a firearm, even in the 1890's the recipe was changing although it did exhibit some of the same light effected fading and oil in the hand color changing characteristics. For example the Remington 1890 grips are not Gutta purcha but certainly act like it

October 19, 2009, 12:58 PM	#9
30-30remchester Senior Member Join Date: April 18, 2009 Location: mountains of colorado Posts: 977	You have a rifle version of an 1894 Winchester. The giveaway is the cap that holds the forearm to the barrel. Carbines used a band that went all the way around the barrel and forearm. The hole in the barrel is not original. The gun has been reblued and refinished sometime in the past. The buttplate is a "shotgun" type which is original.The barrel lenght is a little suspect also, Winchester did built 20" barreled rifles however MOST of the time they used a forearm an inch shorter than yours.