Cost of Primers & Powder

Zeek5793 · April 3, 2008, 08:13 PM

Is it just in Idaho?? Or is it all over but the cost of Primers and Powder here has gone nuts, all Powders are at least $20.00 a lb and Primers are $30.00 plus a 1000 If you can get what you want whats going on ANYONE got a guess???? Is it time to stock up or is it too late?? thanks Zeek

Yoosta B. Blue · April 3, 2008, 08:29 PM

Zeek, it looks like we missed the envelope of time in which to "stock up." Prices on those items have gone nuts here in Texas as well. It is the rapid spiral of the price of factory rounds in recent months that has caused me to get into reloading. I'm loving it! (Not the prices going crazy, but the ability to control the finished product.)

Yoosta B. Blue

CrustyFN · April 3, 2008, 08:30 PM

Buyin bulk from http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ and https://www.grafs.com/ and you should be able to buy a lot cheaper than that even with the hazmat fee.
Rusty

**Unclenick** · April 3, 2008, 08:31 PM

They've all gone up with the raw material competition to keep the military supplied. Also, shipping restrictions and hazmat fees are taking a toll on getting them on the shelves at the dealer's.

DR. Furlicker · April 3, 2008, 08:35 PM

I'm in PA and the over the counter prices are the same, and the selection is also somewhat limited. I do think it's time to stock up you don't know who will be elected and what they will do. It am always amazed that people who hunt and shoot will support those who are on the same side of those who want to eat away our rights; and it always comes from the left.

Prince55 · April 3, 2008, 08:53 PM

Isn't UPS responsible for the Hazmat fees ? I never choose UPS if I have
a choice of shippers. I think they're Major price gougers.
I usually use the USPS if it's something they'll ship.

TexasSeaRay · April 4, 2008, 12:28 AM

Why?

One word.

China.

Jeff

**Unclenick** · April 4, 2008, 09:47 AM

China accounts partly for bullets and brass going up because of the competition for metals they've created, but powder won't have much to do with China and the metal in primers costs a lot less than their manufacture and packaging. The main thing that happened was last year's military order for small arms ammunition was quadruple their normal levels in order to replace depleted stocks.

Under the Clinton administration, all but one government-owned ammunition manufacturing facility was shut down. Lake City remains. It is government-owned but contractor-operated, and the current contractor is Olin (1985 to present - Remington was the contractor before that), so Olin funnels its resources there when military demand is high. Moreover, Lake City is not enough capacity. Federal Cartridge Company is owned by an Aerospance/Defense munitions company, ATK, and ATK will have been in on the ammunition orders, draining Federal's capacity. CCI/Speer is owned by Blount (which also own Outers and Weaver in addition to CAT and other outdoor equipment companies). I don't know what Blount's defense connections are? But if you look at the CCI primer product list, in addition to their #34 and #41 military hardness primers for reloaders, they also manufacture full mil spec primers, and other than a few specialty applications, one may assume they are supplying most of those primers for military ammunition. Hodgdon gets ball powder through St. Marks Powder Co., which is owned by General Dynamics, so you can be sure they were filling military demand, which helps explain powder shortages. I don't know what Remington's defense involvement is since losing the Lake City operating contract, but presumably they were filling orders, too.

The bottom line is that the big order last year siphoned off the materials and plant capacity that keep the pipeline full. One gun writer, Rocky Raab, who posts on the Shooters Forum, says industry people tell him the crunch is over and that supply shortages now are just a matter of letting that pipeline catch up restocking demand. Whether the competition that results after restocking will begin to bring prices more within reason or not, I don't know? It did after the last primer shortage was over in the 90's. It just depends on us shopping for bargains, same as any other market, to drive prices back down toward the cost of production and supply.

One thing civilian shooters can take some pride in is that our consumption of reloading supplies and use of military ammunition calibers have maintained the manufacturing base necessary for military efforts. Without that, the Clinton administration's ammunition plant closings would have seen the country caught up short on plant capacity and tooling for military ammunition. Add to that the CMP's fielding of volunteer instructors for the Army's Squad Designated Marksman program, and the value of civilian gun ownership and marksmanship program participation have come around full circle to support the national defense, just as the founders intended.

Sevens · April 4, 2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

One thing civilian shooters can take some pride in is that our consumption of reloading supplies and use of military ammunition calibers have maintained the manufacturing base necessary for military efforts. Without that, the Clinton administration's ammunition plant closings would have seen the country caught up short on plant capacity and tooling for military ammunition. Add to that the CMP's fielding of volunteer instructors for the Army's Unit Designated Marksman program, and the value of civilian gun ownership and marksmanship program participation have come around full circle to support the national defense, just as the founders intended.

This is beautiful, especially the last part which I elected to italicize.
But who in Washington would ever see this reality, or admit to seeing it, or point it out? Or better yet, who of anyone outside shooting circles or the shooting industry would?

Nobody ever told me when I was a kid how ultimately frustrating it is to be a shooter and lawful gun owner.

**Unclenick** · April 4, 2008, 11:17 AM

Except that I had a brain **rt. The program is the Squad Designated Marksman program. I fixed it in my post. You can read more about it here:

http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp

rn22723 · April 6, 2008, 09:08 AM

ATK operates Lake City and has for a more then a few years......and the proof is http://www.atk.com/Customer_Solution...as_default.asp

Forwardassist · April 6, 2008, 08:00 PM

The war has little to do with the price of ammo, that is the excuse given by manufactures to explain why price have gone up. The main reason for the increase is that they can raise the prices. It is all about max profits with the excuse of a war, a small one at that, to blame.

mrawesome22 · April 6, 2008, 09:05 PM

The price of 1000 primers here locally has gone up around $2 here in SE Ohio within the last year and a half or so. Powder has stayed exactly the same. Bullets have stayed the same.

Brass has gone through the roof!

I imagine though, that when the stores stocks run out and they have to order new stock, that is when I will start seeing price increases across the board.

Hopefully they have lots in stock!

rickomatic · April 6, 2008, 09:49 PM

I, like a lot of others, recently got back into reloading. I've dug out all my old gear and supplies, bought some more, and got my reloading bench set back up. I decided to prime a bunch of 30-30 and .38 S&W brass yesterday, and found a couple boxes of large rifle and small pistol CCI primers from my old stash. They still had the price stickers on them. $1.39 per 100. Sigh......

Well....at least that 20 year old Bullseye still shoots like new....

Al Norris · April 6, 2008, 10:10 PM

A little more info on ATK....

From the ATK website:

Major Products and Programs — Commercial

Federal Premium, Fusion, and Estate Cartridge ammunition
CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition; Speer bullets for reloaders
Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories
RCBS reloading equipment
Champion traps and paper, metal and clay targets
Weaver mounting systems
Alliant Powder and gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers
Ram-Line replacement stocks

In 2000, ATK became the operator for Lake City. In 2001, they acquired all of Blount Internationals ammunition holdings.

They are the nations largest manufacturer of ammuntion. They are the sole U.S. manufacturer of TNT.

Went to Twin Falls today and stopped in at Sportsmans... They had a two page letter "explaining" the dirth of primers, powders, brass and bullets. The essence was that due to climbing metal prices (something we all know about) and the major contracts with the Military, all manufacturers are behind in supplying the civilian market.

After browsing the ATK corporate site, I tend to believe the above explanation. As the military contracts are fullfilled, the pipeline to the civilian market should begin operating again.... Barring further military contracts.

MaineColt · April 7, 2008, 08:24 AM

I just bought some powder here in Maine, a pound of Unique was $18

Primers are $3.50/100

Bullets? WAY up.

Kev

Alleykat · April 7, 2008, 08:32 AM

Check out Powder Valley, per the other poster's recommendation. Buy a couple of 8# jugs of powder and 5000-10,000 primers in one order and pay only one Hazmat fee.

The Lovemaster · April 7, 2008, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasSeaRay

Why?

One word.

China.

Jeff

Couple more words.

"India"

"Increased federal procurement this fiscal year for DHS and military"

April 3, 2008, 08:13 PM	#1
Zeek5793 Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: Best place on Earth {IDAHO} Posts: 33	Cost of Primers & Powder Is it just in Idaho?? Or is it all over but the cost of Primers and Powder here has gone nuts, all Powders are at least $20.00 a lb and Primers are $30.00 plus a 1000 If you can get what you want whats going on ANYONE got a guess???? Is it time to stock up or is it too late?? thanks Zeek

April 4, 2008, 12:28 AM	#7
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Why? One word. China. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

April 4, 2008, 09:47 AM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	China accounts partly for bullets and brass going up because of the competition for metals they've created, but powder won't have much to do with China and the metal in primers costs a lot less than their manufacture and packaging. The main thing that happened was last year's military order for small arms ammunition was quadruple their normal levels in order to replace depleted stocks. Under the Clinton administration, all but one government-owned ammunition manufacturing facility was shut down. Lake City remains. It is government-owned but contractor-operated, and the current contractor is Olin (1985 to present - Remington was the contractor before that), so Olin funnels its resources there when military demand is high. Moreover, Lake City is not enough capacity. Federal Cartridge Company is owned by an Aerospance/Defense munitions company, ATK, and ATK will have been in on the ammunition orders, draining Federal's capacity. CCI/Speer is owned by Blount (which also own Outers and Weaver in addition to CAT and other outdoor equipment companies). I don't know what Blount's defense connections are? But if you look at the CCI primer product list, in addition to their #34 and #41 military hardness primers for reloaders, they also manufacture full mil spec primers, and other than a few specialty applications, one may assume they are supplying most of those primers for military ammunition. Hodgdon gets ball powder through St. Marks Powder Co., which is owned by General Dynamics, so you can be sure they were filling military demand, which helps explain powder shortages. I don't know what Remington's defense involvement is since losing the Lake City operating contract, but presumably they were filling orders, too. The bottom line is that the big order last year siphoned off the materials and plant capacity that keep the pipeline full. One gun writer, Rocky Raab, who posts on the Shooters Forum, says industry people tell him the crunch is over and that supply shortages now are just a matter of letting that pipeline catch up restocking demand. Whether the competition that results after restocking will begin to bring prices more within reason or not, I don't know? It did after the last primer shortage was over in the 90's. It just depends on us shopping for bargains, same as any other market, to drive prices back down toward the cost of production and supply. One thing civilian shooters can take some pride in is that our consumption of reloading supplies and use of military ammunition calibers have maintained the manufacturing base necessary for military efforts. Without that, the Clinton administration's ammunition plant closings would have seen the country caught up short on plant capacity and tooling for military ammunition. Add to that the CMP's fielding of volunteer instructors for the Army's Squad Designated Marksman program, and the value of civilian gun ownership and marksmanship program participation have come around full circle to support the national defense, just as the founders intended. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; April 4, 2008 at 11:15 AM.

April 4, 2008, 11:17 AM	#10
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Except that I had a brain **rt. The program is the Squad Designated Marksman program. I fixed it in my post. You can read more about it here: http://www.odcmp.org/1205/SDM.asp __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 6, 2008, 08:00 PM	#12
Forwardassist Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2008 Location: New England. Posts: 403	The war has little to do with the price of ammo, that is the excuse given by manufactures to explain why price have gone up. The main reason for the increase is that they can raise the prices. It is all about max profits with the excuse of a war, a small one at that, to blame. __________________ "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis. Excuse my spelling, for sometimes the fingers are faster than the brain.

April 3, 2008, 08:29 PM	#2
Yoosta B. Blue Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2008 Location: Just a tad NE of the Alamo... Posts: 252	Zeek, it looks like we missed the envelope of time in which to "stock up." Prices on those items have gone nuts here in Texas as well. It is the rapid spiral of the price of factory rounds in recent months that has caused me to get into reloading. I'm loving it! (Not the prices going crazy, but the ability to control the finished product.) Yoosta B. Blue

April 3, 2008, 08:30 PM	#3
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Buyin bulk from http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ and https://www.grafs.com/ and you should be able to buy a lot cheaper than that even with the hazmat fee. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

April 3, 2008, 08:31 PM	#4
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	They've all gone up with the raw material competition to keep the military supplied. Also, shipping restrictions and hazmat fees are taking a toll on getting them on the shelves at the dealer's. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 3, 2008, 08:35 PM	#5
DR. Furlicker Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 33	I'm in PA and the over the counter prices are the same, and the selection is also somewhat limited. I do think it's time to stock up you don't know who will be elected and what they will do. It am always amazed that people who hunt and shoot will support those who are on the same side of those who want to eat away our rights; and it always comes from the left.

April 3, 2008, 08:53 PM	#6
Prince55 Senior Member Join Date: June 22, 2007 Posts: 472	Isn't UPS responsible for the Hazmat fees ? I never choose UPS if I have a choice of shippers. I think they're Major price gougers. I usually use the USPS if it's something they'll ship.

April 6, 2008, 09:08 AM	#11
rn22723 Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2001 Location: Burbs of Minneapolis Posts: 676	ATK operates Lake City and has for a more then a few years......and the proof is http://www.atk.com/Customer_Solution...as_default.asp

April 6, 2008, 09:05 PM	#13
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	The price of 1000 primers here locally has gone up around $2 here in SE Ohio within the last year and a half or so. Powder has stayed exactly the same. Bullets have stayed the same. Brass has gone through the roof! I imagine though, that when the stores stocks run out and they have to order new stock, that is when I will start seeing price increases across the board. Hopefully they have lots in stock!

April 6, 2008, 09:49 PM	#14
rickomatic Member Join Date: May 3, 2007 Posts: 35	I, like a lot of others, recently got back into reloading. I've dug out all my old gear and supplies, bought some more, and got my reloading bench set back up. I decided to prime a bunch of 30-30 and .38 S&W brass yesterday, and found a couple boxes of large rifle and small pistol CCI primers from my old stash. They still had the price stickers on them. $1.39 per 100. Sigh...... Well....at least that 20 year old Bullseye still shoots like new.... __________________ "My greatest fear, is that once I'm dead and gone, my wife will sell all my guns for what I said I paid for them!"

April 6, 2008, 10:10 PM	#15
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	A little more info on ATK.... From the ATK website: Major Products and Programs — Commercial Federal Premium, Fusion, and Estate Cartridge ammunition CCI, Speer, Lawman, and Blazer ammunition; Speer bullets for reloaders Gunslick, Outers and Shooters Ridge gun care and shooting accessories RCBS reloading equipment Champion traps and paper, metal and clay targets Weaver mounting systems Alliant Powder and gun powders for sporting re-loaders and ammunition manufacturers Ram-Line replacement stocks In 2000, ATK became the operator for Lake City. In 2001, they acquired all of Blount Internationals ammunition holdings. They are the nations largest manufacturer of ammuntion. They are the sole U.S. manufacturer of TNT. Went to Twin Falls today and stopped in at Sportsmans... They had a two page letter "explaining" the dirth of primers, powders, brass and bullets. The essence was that due to climbing metal prices (something we all know about) and the major contracts with the Military, all manufacturers are behind in supplying the civilian market. After browsing the ATK corporate site, I tend to believe the above explanation. As the military contracts are fullfilled, the pipeline to the civilian market should begin operating again.... Barring further military contracts.

April 7, 2008, 08:24 AM	#16
MaineColt Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 222	I just bought some powder here in Maine, a pound of Unique was $18 Primers are $3.50/100 Bullets? WAY up. Kev

April 7, 2008, 08:32 AM	#17
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Check out Powder Valley, per the other poster's recommendation. Buy a couple of 8# jugs of powder and 5000-10,000 primers in one order and pay only one Hazmat fee.