December 4, 2012, 06:05 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 2011
Posts: 654
|
Agreed.
Remember that South Carolina state trooper who emptied his S&W .357 Magnum into a perp, 5 shots hit center mass ...158 gr HPs, yet after that, the perp fired one shot from a 22 cal NAA mousegun, killing the trooper. Return fire can be a killer. Always take hard cover.
__________________
For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side. |
December 4, 2012, 09:19 PM | #27 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 21, 2011
Location: Southern Louisiana
Posts: 1,399
|
Quote:
Get someone to charge you from 7 yards (21 feet) or less intending to kill you with a large knife or a baseball bat. It'll take them less than 1.5 seconds to cover the distance (see Tueller drill). How many times would you propose to shoot at them in the hope that they will stop? |
|
December 5, 2012, 02:28 AM | #28 |
Staff In Memoriam
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
|
When I and handguns were quite well acquainted, I practiced to knock down a double tap into a softball size spot at point of aim... For me, I think it was basically getting the second round off as the slide going forward ran the muzzle back towards level that I was both fast and accurate... Seems if I missed that sweet spot it was just a decent fire, reacquire aim and then fire which was obviously not a "double tap" we generally think...
Brent |
December 5, 2012, 11:07 AM | #29 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 7, 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 447
|
Quote:
The goal isn't to "win", by shooting him X number of times before he reaches you with the knife. Aside from the extreme unlikelihood that one would be able to draw and shoot quickly enough, that simply means that you get off a couple of good shots before he starts slashing/stabbing away at you in what might be his last minute or so of life. If someone is running at me with a knife, I'll be running the opposite direction while drawing and shooting. This solves the (more important) problem of not getting hurt, while putting out a lot of hurt in return. |
|
December 5, 2012, 11:20 AM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
|
I find that most people aren't so good at running backwards.
First, most people take mincing, baby steps when in reverse. Second, pesky obstacles and trip hazards rear their ugly heads. I find that moving in diagonals off the X works much better. This is an area where training can go a long way to help. So, for me, a Tueller drill with knife would involve drawing and shooting with one hand, while moving off the line (probably on a 45deg advance to his weak side) and using the free hand to deflect. Note that if deflecting a knife, the goal in deflecting is to actually deflect the knife hand's arm, about 1/3 to 1/2 way up the forearm. Various techniques can be applied at that point. Going for the knife hand will often as not put your own hand in unfriendly contact with the blade. |
December 5, 2012, 11:28 AM | #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: July 15, 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 3,746
|
Quote:
__________________
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."- Thomas Jefferson ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ (>_<) |
|
December 5, 2012, 11:54 AM | #32 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 7, 2012
Location: Northern California
Posts: 447
|
Quote:
|
|
December 5, 2012, 12:34 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 20, 2011
Posts: 654
|
"It was .357 Magnum 145 grain Silver Tips. " [nate45]
Yes, I stand corrected. Always bothered me that the perp was hit 5 times in the chest by very potent rounds, yet could still return deadly fire. As you know the perp is behind bars. The tragic incident has, however, had a beneficial effect in that tactics to avoid such a terrible outcome have since been taught, and lives saved.
__________________
For 20 years the sea was my home, always recall the sun going down, and my trusty friend, a 1911 pistol, strapped to my side. |
December 5, 2012, 01:00 PM | #34 | |
Junior member
Join Date: July 13, 2012
Posts: 179
|
Quote:
DASHZNT |
|
December 5, 2012, 01:38 PM | #35 | |
Member in memoriam
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
|
Quote:
I keep seeing the videos of the Tueller drill and the only people who I have seen successful were the ones who did not retreat. You have feet, kick him, you have a forearm put it up and get cut but live, you have a chair throw it between you, you have a waste paper basket or stapler or plate of spaghetti get it between you and the knife man but for heavens sake do not retreat backwards while looking at the man charging you. 3 times I have faced a knife and each time the man was within arms reach of me and attacked without warning, even if I had a gun which I didn't I would not have been able to get to it. I have never been cut so going on the offensive immediately has a lot of pluses in my book.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster-- |
|
December 5, 2012, 02:26 PM | #36 |
Member
Join Date: October 27, 2011
Posts: 73
|
Your first response was the most correct for your original question. Worry about accuracy over rate of fire. How fast and accurate you make the first shot will matter way more than how fast you fire the next 6.
Practice clearing your weapon and getting that first shot accurate. Everything else is wasting ammo.
__________________
Out of respect for all of you that wish to ban firearms...I promise to not use mine in your defense |
December 5, 2012, 02:36 PM | #37 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
|
Quote:
You shoot until the threat stops, not until it's dead. It is called a deadly weapon because its use can cause a death much easier than a less-lethal weapon. That does not mean that you use it until the threat is dead. You shoot until the threat stops, if they assailant dies as a result, then that is unfortunate; but it was not your intention to kill him (or her). If you go into the grand jury after a shooting and say what you said in defense of your actions, you will have a much harder time proving that all of your actions were justified. |
|
December 5, 2012, 02:48 PM | #38 |
Member
Join Date: October 27, 2011
Posts: 73
|
A note on the legal aspect that has been brought up... you may be required by your state laws to escape, "if possible" rather than defending yourself at all. If an intruder comes through the front door and you don't go out the back door, you can be held criminally accountable for any injuries or death to the intruder.
I personally believe that the progression of reaction should be 1. Distance 2. Barriers 3. Defense (only if necessary.)
__________________
Out of respect for all of you that wish to ban firearms...I promise to not use mine in your defense |
December 5, 2012, 02:49 PM | #39 | |
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Quote:
|
|
December 6, 2012, 05:25 AM | #40 |
Senior Member
Join Date: September 7, 2010
Location: Virginia
Posts: 333
|
be slow in a hurry
as Wyatt Earp is reported to have said
Fast is fine but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry
__________________
Superman, you are a mean drunk |
December 6, 2012, 09:56 AM | #41 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 12, 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 1,315
|
The speed thing has really driven my choice of arms. I'm so much faster at this age with a pocket .38 revolver. My backup is a high cap auto. Slow just won't cut it.
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|