A completely REALISTIC tactical scenario - Page 5

Striker071 · July 10, 2008, 12:00 AM

OK this thread has changed about 4 times... but here is my 2 cents.

1 Avoid the confrontation all together- If the car stops just turn around and go the other direction. Dont run but change your direction.

2 If you cant do option 1 then put something .. a mail box post, a bush a tree anything in between you and the person coming at you.

3 Make some noise.. draw attention to the situation so other people can get involved and be witnesses. Most people dont want an audience so they can get caught up later.

4 Ask the person to leave you alone.... then tell .... then give an order.. you can gauge your persons intent by that. If they keep coming then its time for you to act.

5 There is what some people call the 21 foot rule... average time it takes a person to cross that distance is about 2 seconds. Keep a person farther away than that.

6 De-escalate de-escalate... de-escalate.... do whatever it takes to make the situation go away without violence and injury to you or the person coming at you.

7 Your sidearm is your last option.... and should be treated as such... your best weapon is your head and your wits and should be considered a more viable option at all times. I believe that a person carrying a CCW has to do it better than everyone else. Has to be more level headed and more responsible and if they arent they shouldnt have a CCW to begin with.

Your CCW is a final solution... final.... Having to live with a decision that you may have to carry around with you for the rest of your life can be hard at times. I am not talking about the legal stuff... the deep in your head stuff.

Good Luck and be safe

David Armstrong · July 10, 2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Now please show me were I said that I would shoot someone for that.

Since that is the question at hand (would deadly force be appropriate) and you have advocated the use of firearms in this situation, your advocacy is apparent. For example, let's look at just a few quotes from you on the topic:

"I would turn around and leave. If he tries to pursue me I run. If he is gaining on me or I'm getting fatigued I draw and confront while retreating. If he continues to move in on me I now have no choice but to fire."

"BG with the "big mouth" made a threat. He then began to close the distance needed for him to carry out the threat. His body contains the weapons giving him the ability to carry out the threats. So you have intent, ability, and opportunity.
I'm with you on the retreat. I just disagree with your assertion that the BG in this case didn't meet the criteria for being a legal defensive gun usage."

"If he begins to gain on me or I'm tiring I will be forced to display my weapon then stop and fire if he continues."

"It can and will be argued legally if it was necessary to defend yourself in court. I will instruct my lawyer to use it as a defense in court. I will trust the jury to understand that anyone who is willing to risk death to attack you was themselves willing to kill you."

If, however, you now wish to change your position and agree that in this situation we have no justification for deadly force, feel free to do so. Again, just verbally threatening you, or even following you cussing at you, are still misdemeanors. You can't threaten the BG with a gun and threaten/use deadly force for a misdemeanor. That is what most have been saying all along, and you have been disagreeing with it.

Socrates · July 11, 2008, 04:18 PM

I think the standard, at least in our state, is if you reasonably believe your life is endangered. So, you have to convince 12 folks, doing monday morning quarterbacking, that the threat was enough to make you in fear for your life. Depending on your physical condition, and that of the bad guy, you may, or may not be justified in using deadly force.

If the guy getting out of the car is a Hell's Angel, and he's wearing colors, or some other group that you know of that will fight to the death, and requires all other members present to join in the fight, once it's started, the situation maybe easier to sell then your average thug. Physical size can have a big part in it as well.

Another factor can be the mental state of the attacker. Seems to be a sympathy point if you are attacked by someone that's mentally challenged. I think there is a case where a jury convicted a 56 year old teacher in Arizona, who, when charged by a mentally retarded
guy, probably with intent to do serious harm, and shot him.

I have a hard time with this, since 40% of the crimes in San Francisco are by homeless people, people that are really in need of homes, and, about 90% of those never go to court, or actually higher. I also tried to keep in jail a retarded guy that was fine on meds, but, when off, shot a police dog, killed it, and shot a couple officers. Kali law put him up for a half way house in less then 6 years.

On the otherhand, I guess it's ok for a homeless guy to walk up to my 5'2" 105 pound girlfriend, punch her in the face on 7th street, right next to the Court building, and, get away with it...

jabineer · July 11, 2008, 07:44 PM

I study self defense from a retired CSI dude who is as deadly as there is on two legs. Based on scientific analysis of crime scenes, he says the number one reason for escalation of an event that ends in homicide or life changing injury is machismo.

His first rule of self defense is to run. Too many good men and women are dead, vegetables or in lock up for way too many years because they didn't check their ego. Is my family's meal ticket and welfare worth less than getting my ego bruised? I think not.

So, relative to this scenario, I would assume a wuss posture, profusely beg for forgiveness and exit stage right.

If and only if I could not retreat then I would immediately attack the attacker with maniacal ferocity until an escape route is open and then flee.

If and only if I could not retreat and he raised the stakes by displaying or appearing about to display a weapon that would give me the feeling that I was in imminent danger of my life would I draw and fire COM as I make myself as small a target profile as possible until the threat is stopped.

Then I would wait for the cops at a reasonable distance to not disturb the crime scene, call the gun lawyer's number I carry in my mobile and politely keep my mug shut until I talked to him.

In case any of y'all want some of the training I am getting, you can find it at http://www.attackproof.com

July 11, 2008, 07:44 PM	#104
jabineer Member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 55	I study self defense from a retired CSI dude who is as deadly as there is on two legs. Based on scientific analysis of crime scenes, he says the number one reason for escalation of an event that ends in homicide or life changing injury is machismo. His first rule of self defense is to run. Too many good men and women are dead, vegetables or in lock up for way too many years because they didn't check their ego. Is my family's meal ticket and welfare worth less than getting my ego bruised? I think not. So, relative to this scenario, I would assume a wuss posture, profusely beg for forgiveness and exit stage right. If and only if I could not retreat then I would immediately attack the attacker with maniacal ferocity until an escape route is open and then flee. If and only if I could not retreat and he raised the stakes by displaying or appearing about to display a weapon that would give me the feeling that I was in imminent danger of my life would I draw and fire COM as I make myself as small a target profile as possible until the threat is stopped. Then I would wait for the cops at a reasonable distance to not disturb the crime scene, call the gun lawyer's number I carry in my mobile and politely keep my mug shut until I talked to him. In case any of y'all want some of the training I am getting, you can find it at http://www.attackproof.com __________________ jabineer "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom." Proverbs 1:7 http://www.calvaryccm.com/WhoIsJesus.aspx Last edited by jabineer; July 13, 2008 at 07:02 AM.

July 10, 2008, 12:00 AM	#101
Striker071 Member Join Date: July 9, 2008 Posts: 87	OK this thread has changed about 4 times... but here is my 2 cents. 1 Avoid the confrontation all together- If the car stops just turn around and go the other direction. Dont run but change your direction. 2 If you cant do option 1 then put something .. a mail box post, a bush a tree anything in between you and the person coming at you. 3 Make some noise.. draw attention to the situation so other people can get involved and be witnesses. Most people dont want an audience so they can get caught up later. 4 Ask the person to leave you alone.... then tell .... then give an order.. you can gauge your persons intent by that. If they keep coming then its time for you to act. 5 There is what some people call the 21 foot rule... average time it takes a person to cross that distance is about 2 seconds. Keep a person farther away than that. 6 De-escalate de-escalate... de-escalate.... do whatever it takes to make the situation go away without violence and injury to you or the person coming at you. 7 Your sidearm is your last option.... and should be treated as such... your best weapon is your head and your wits and should be considered a more viable option at all times. I believe that a person carrying a CCW has to do it better than everyone else. Has to be more level headed and more responsible and if they arent they shouldnt have a CCW to begin with. Your CCW is a final solution... final.... Having to live with a decision that you may have to carry around with you for the rest of your life can be hard at times. I am not talking about the legal stuff... the deep in your head stuff. Good Luck and be safe

July 11, 2008, 04:18 PM	#103
Socrates Junior member Join Date: January 5, 2005 Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 5,866	I think the standard, at least in our state, is if you reasonably believe your life is endangered. So, you have to convince 12 folks, doing monday morning quarterbacking, that the threat was enough to make you in fear for your life. Depending on your physical condition, and that of the bad guy, you may, or may not be justified in using deadly force. If the guy getting out of the car is a Hell's Angel, and he's wearing colors, or some other group that you know of that will fight to the death, and requires all other members present to join in the fight, once it's started, the situation maybe easier to sell then your average thug. Physical size can have a big part in it as well. Another factor can be the mental state of the attacker. Seems to be a sympathy point if you are attacked by someone that's mentally challenged. I think there is a case where a jury convicted a 56 year old teacher in Arizona, who, when charged by a mentally retarded guy, probably with intent to do serious harm, and shot him. I have a hard time with this, since 40% of the crimes in San Francisco are by homeless people, people that are really in need of homes, and, about 90% of those never go to court, or actually higher. I also tried to keep in jail a retarded guy that was fine on meds, but, when off, shot a police dog, killed it, and shot a couple officers. Kali law put him up for a half way house in less then 6 years. On the otherhand, I guess it's ok for a homeless guy to walk up to my 5'2" 105 pound girlfriend, punch her in the face on 7th street, right next to the Court building, and, get away with it...