Loading for CZ-52 (7.62x25 Tokarev)

Mike P. Wagner · March 14, 2001, 11:10 PM

I have just bought a CZ-52, haven't even fired it yet, and I'm already thinking about reloading. I noticed that Lee makes reloading dies for the 7.62x25 Tokarev round, #90769
3_DIE_SET_7.62_TOKAREV. I can't find anyone else that makes dies specifically for this round, and I've also noticed that Lee will make up a turret press kit for any dies they have, "Note: Kits can be made up for any caliber for which dies are listed in the catalog. Order by caliber and specify TURRET PRESS KIT. Cartridges longer than 2 5/16 requiring manual index."

So it seems, as a beginner reloader that this might be the way to start. What do folks think of this?

Mike P. Wagner

Gewehr98 · March 15, 2001, 07:05 AM

Hi, Mike!

The Lee dies are just fine for the CZ-52, I've been using mine, with Starline brass, for a couple years. Here's a great place to get started on reloading for your pistol:

http://users.supernet.com/roo67/reloading.htm

Hope this helps!

Brooks · March 16, 2001, 06:43 AM

Mike,

I have a Lee turret press and a CZ 52. I haven't reloaded for this pistol though.

I started reloading with a 3 hole Lee turret press and just yesterday bolted my new RCBS Pro 2000 to the bench.

The Lee turret indexes and turns with each pull of the handle. It can get out of adjustment and registry and there is an adjustment you may have to make--read the directions if you buy it. You cannot use the auto turning feature with cases longer than .223 or M1 carbine. You can prime by placing the primer in the cup on the machine (on the upstroke) after sizing or with Lee's hand instrument.

The Turret press kit will get you going. Lee's stuff is the low price spread but it works. Use the Factory Crimp Die from Lee if it is available for that caliber too as it will ensure the ammo will chamber in your pistol.

For $100 more, you can get a Dillon turret press that is upgradeable to their much loved 550B progressive press.

Get Richard Lee's book MODERN RELOADING for $10-15. It is very readable and includes a lot of data. I highly recommend this book. It costs less when you buy it from someone else.

Regarding the CZ 52

on't dry fire it--pin breaks. Hogue has wood grips that dresses it up. Check out the CZ 52
on the --www.Makarov.com--board.

Handloading is almost more fun than shootin'. It's kind of a mix between machine shop and chemistry. You've got to pay attention to what you are doing all of the time.

EchoFiveMike · March 16, 2001, 02:14 PM

I've spent the last two days cursing my 7.62x25 experiments. As it turns out the Hornady 90gn XTP's will not chamber in my CZ-52 when loaded to any reasonable OAL. Apparently the bullet is contacting the rifling. I got a couple of problems with case expansion on bullet seating worked out, fairly early(when seating bullets, did not flare the case mouth enough, and was expanding the case slightly so that the case, when the bullet was removed, would not chamber). But I can't see how to overcome this particular problem. I really want to use the XTP's, as they are pretty much the only good bullet out there for the 7.62x25(haven't tried the Sierra yet, but question whether the SP will have enough velocity to expand) I don't want to pop for a throating reamer, either, though I suspect that I could borrow one easily enough(7.62/ 30 caliber reamer should work fine, right?) Any ideas? Semper Fidelis...Ken M

Gewehr98 · March 16, 2001, 06:52 PM

Echo5Mike,

What's your cartridge OAL with those 90gr Hornady XTP's? I just bought a box to try in my CZ-52, I sure hope I didn't bite off too much. As for the Sierra 85gr SoftPoints, I got them up over 1600fps so far over a nice charge of AA#5, and if they don't expand in a soft target at that velocity, considering they are a purpose-built pistol bullet with a thinner jacket, I don't know what will!

Yodar · March 16, 2001, 08:30 PM

Do a LOT of reading. Handloading Magazine has an excellent article (Oct 2000) on reloading data using aftermarket brass & bullets.

I CAST my own Lee Tokarev 90 gr RN bullets and use 6gr Alliance PowerPistol in my 90 gr and 110 gr Lyman reloads but SIZING the cast bullet is VERY important as Starline demands neck reaming for bullets of certain dimensions, and I suspect THAT is the basis for your chambering problems. A friend uses the bullet you use but you might have to size it to fit your bbl. My bbl slugs .311 but demands .309 bullets

I size my bullets .309 and ream my necks to 0.010" in home made brass from .223 cases and measure my Starline brass to ensure neck thickness of 0.010"

Yodar

EchoFiveMike · March 16, 2001, 11:46 PM

OAL is at 1.320, and I haven't run it any shorter, yet. The new Hornady book says that is the OAL they used, with a max spec OAL of 1.380 IIRC.

The bullet is .308 diameter, so there should be no neck reaming or other hassle involved, but apparently, the bullet is hitting the leade(the nice shallow grooves, scratches really, in the jacket of the bullet lead me to believe this). I guess, I will go see what OAL will fit in the gun. After I get done with these 300 Wby's. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

Brooks · March 17, 2001, 07:48 AM

Mike,

It looks like starting to reload with this bottle neck caliber might be tough.

Why don't you pick up a used or new pistol in a popular caliber like .38/357, 9mm or .45?

Get a .38 and you don't have to run all over to pick up your brass.

Re: 7.62x25--Mike, did you mic out some East Block factory ammo?

saands · March 17, 2001, 12:55 PM

I had a LOT of trouble with my reloads in 7.62x25. Actually my first batch worked pretty well, but then subsequent batches wouldn't chamber well at all ... bummer! The good news is that I solved the mystery. It wasn't the realoads ... well they were a gnats eyelash bigger than the factory loads, but the real problem was that with the bottle-necked cartridge you also get a bottle-necked chamber ... and that chamber doesn't get cleaned with the .30 brush that you use to clean the barrel! Damn obvious in hindsight

Anyway, a good chamber cleaning with my .40 brush and my realoads chamber beautifully. The CZ-52 was my first and only bottle-necked pistol, so I guess I just spaced it.

Good luck,
Saands

EchoFiveMike · March 19, 2001, 12:25 AM

Well, I just mic'ed case necks and the Starline brass comes in at 0.331, which is 0.006 larger than some factory 7.62x25 that works fine. The drawing in the Hornady loading manuel shows a case neck spec of 0.332, so it should work. Perhaps I have a screwed up chamber. I will scrub the beejesus out of it and try again. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

Clark · May 2, 2001, 10:38 PM

The "Accurate Arms Load Book #2" has the new super hot loads for the CZ52. 1912 fps w/ 85 gr bullet

March 16, 2001, 06:43 AM	#3
Brooks Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: Mn Posts: 105	CZ 52 Mike, I have a Lee turret press and a CZ 52. I haven't reloaded for this pistol though. I started reloading with a 3 hole Lee turret press and just yesterday bolted my new RCBS Pro 2000 to the bench. The Lee turret indexes and turns with each pull of the handle. It can get out of adjustment and registry and there is an adjustment you may have to make--read the directions if you buy it. You cannot use the auto turning feature with cases longer than .223 or M1 carbine. You can prime by placing the primer in the cup on the machine (on the upstroke) after sizing or with Lee's hand instrument. The Turret press kit will get you going. Lee's stuff is the low price spread but it works. Use the Factory Crimp Die from Lee if it is available for that caliber too as it will ensure the ammo will chamber in your pistol. For $100 more, you can get a Dillon turret press that is upgradeable to their much loved 550B progressive press. Get Richard Lee's book MODERN RELOADING for $10-15. It is very readable and includes a lot of data. I highly recommend this book. It costs less when you buy it from someone else. Regarding the CZ 52on't dry fire it--pin breaks. Hogue has wood grips that dresses it up. Check out the CZ 52 on the --www.Makarov.com--board. Handloading is almost more fun than shootin'. It's kind of a mix between machine shop and chemistry. You've got to pay attention to what you are doing all of the time.

March 17, 2001, 07:48 AM	#8
Brooks Senior Member Join Date: March 4, 2001 Location: Mn Posts: 105	Complex Mike, It looks like starting to reload with this bottle neck caliber might be tough. Why don't you pick up a used or new pistol in a popular caliber like .38/357, 9mm or .45? Get a .38 and you don't have to run all over to pick up your brass. Re: 7.62x25--Mike, did you mic out some East Block factory ammo?

March 14, 2001, 11:10 PM	#1
Mike P. Wagner Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2001 Posts: 451	I have just bought a CZ-52, haven't even fired it yet, and I'm already thinking about reloading. I noticed that Lee makes reloading dies for the 7.62x25 Tokarev round, #90769 3_DIE_SET_7.62_TOKAREV. I can't find anyone else that makes dies specifically for this round, and I've also noticed that Lee will make up a turret press kit for any dies they have, "Note: Kits can be made up for any caliber for which dies are listed in the catalog. Order by caliber and specify TURRET PRESS KIT. Cartridges longer than 2 5/16 requiring manual index." So it seems, as a beginner reloader that this might be the way to start. What do folks think of this? Mike P. Wagner

March 15, 2001, 07:05 AM	#2
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Hi, Mike! The Lee dies are just fine for the CZ-52, I've been using mine, with Starline brass, for a couple years. Here's a great place to get started on reloading for your pistol: http://users.supernet.com/roo67/reloading.htm Hope this helps!

March 16, 2001, 02:14 PM	#4
EchoFiveMike Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 416	I've spent the last two days cursing my 7.62x25 experiments. As it turns out the Hornady 90gn XTP's will not chamber in my CZ-52 when loaded to any reasonable OAL. Apparently the bullet is contacting the rifling. I got a couple of problems with case expansion on bullet seating worked out, fairly early(when seating bullets, did not flare the case mouth enough, and was expanding the case slightly so that the case, when the bullet was removed, would not chamber). But I can't see how to overcome this particular problem. I really want to use the XTP's, as they are pretty much the only good bullet out there for the 7.62x25(haven't tried the Sierra yet, but question whether the SP will have enough velocity to expand) I don't want to pop for a throating reamer, either, though I suspect that I could borrow one easily enough(7.62/ 30 caliber reamer should work fine, right?) Any ideas? Semper Fidelis...Ken M

March 16, 2001, 06:52 PM	#5
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Echo5Mike, What's your cartridge OAL with those 90gr Hornady XTP's? I just bought a box to try in my CZ-52, I sure hope I didn't bite off too much. As for the Sierra 85gr SoftPoints, I got them up over 1600fps so far over a nice charge of AA#5, and if they don't expand in a soft target at that velocity, considering they are a purpose-built pistol bullet with a thinner jacket, I don't know what will!

March 16, 2001, 08:30 PM	#6
Yodar Member Join Date: January 20, 1999 Location: WinterPark,Fl. USA Posts: 89	Do a LOT of reading. Handloading Magazine has an excellent article (Oct 2000) on reloading data using aftermarket brass & bullets. I CAST my own Lee Tokarev 90 gr RN bullets and use 6gr Alliance PowerPistol in my 90 gr and 110 gr Lyman reloads but SIZING the cast bullet is VERY important as Starline demands neck reaming for bullets of certain dimensions, and I suspect THAT is the basis for your chambering problems. A friend uses the bullet you use but you might have to size it to fit your bbl. My bbl slugs .311 but demands .309 bullets I size my bullets .309 and ream my necks to 0.010" in home made brass from .223 cases and measure my Starline brass to ensure neck thickness of 0.010" Yodar

March 16, 2001, 11:46 PM	#7
EchoFiveMike Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 416	OAL is at 1.320, and I haven't run it any shorter, yet. The new Hornady book says that is the OAL they used, with a max spec OAL of 1.380 IIRC. The bullet is .308 diameter, so there should be no neck reaming or other hassle involved, but apparently, the bullet is hitting the leade(the nice shallow grooves, scratches really, in the jacket of the bullet lead me to believe this). I guess, I will go see what OAL will fit in the gun. After I get done with these 300 Wby's. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

March 17, 2001, 12:55 PM	#9
saands Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1999 Posts: 1,573	I had a LOT of trouble with my reloads in 7.62x25. Actually my first batch worked pretty well, but then subsequent batches wouldn't chamber well at all ... bummer! The good news is that I solved the mystery. It wasn't the realoads ... well they were a gnats eyelash bigger than the factory loads, but the real problem was that with the bottle-necked cartridge you also get a bottle-necked chamber ... and that chamber doesn't get cleaned with the .30 brush that you use to clean the barrel! Damn obvious in hindsight Anyway, a good chamber cleaning with my .40 brush and my realoads chamber beautifully. The CZ-52 was my first and only bottle-necked pistol, so I guess I just spaced it. Good luck, Saands

March 19, 2001, 12:25 AM	#10
EchoFiveMike Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2000 Posts: 416	Well, I just mic'ed case necks and the Starline brass comes in at 0.331, which is 0.006 larger than some factory 7.62x25 that works fine. The drawing in the Hornady loading manuel shows a case neck spec of 0.332, so it should work. Perhaps I have a screwed up chamber. I will scrub the beejesus out of it and try again. Semper Fidelis...Ken M

May 2, 2001, 10:38 PM	#11
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	The "Accurate Arms Load Book #2" has the new super hot loads for the CZ52. 1912 fps w/ 85 gr bullet