i need advice on scopes for a m1a 16" barrel

lincoln1 · July 27, 2007, 01:57 AM

it's probably been discussed over and over, but does anybody have feedback on the aimpoint red dot technology vs eotech holo type vs conventional optical lens. i get to pick one for my very own this time (not shooting a friend's set-up) so i'd like to get advice so i get it right. since it is a 16" barrel i am not trying for 500 yds, i figure target 100/200/300 yds paper and closer for small game (or gopher patrol).

john_galt · July 27, 2007, 09:43 PM

I have a socomII with an EOTech 552 (NV, AA battery). 100 yds is all my eyes can take without magnification. I can hit a soda can no problem (prone, bench). 50 yds and in is all I try standing, with a front grip. Very easy to shoot with.

I never tried the Aimpoint, I have an EOTech for my shotgun as well.

lincoln1 · July 28, 2007, 02:46 AM

yeah, who knows what my eyes will be able to handle in the "OE" condition, i know i would benefit with a trip to lens crafters...i may get magnification down the road whether a red dot or the holographic. my problem is that everybody loves the one that they have, and talks it up. i don't totally understand how each work, in a side by side comparison. has anyone used both, on the same rifle, one after the other and figured one had an advantage? if so what was the reason? thanks

john_galt · July 28, 2007, 10:32 PM

I think either one that you go with will be good. What tipped me was the demonstration of the reticle visible on the EOTech even if there is mud on it or it is cracked. The bullet goes where the dot is. Also the red light cannot be seen from the barrel end, only you see the red dot. On the EOTech it is actually a red dot with a larger circle around it. I like that better than a single dot. I also like the 1 MOA vs a 2 or 4 MOA.

heres a pic.

I have mine about 1/3 of the way down the rail. It sits about 19" from my eye. I find it easier to focus on the target using both eyes with the sight further away.

FirstFreedom · July 28, 2007, 11:11 PM

The answer is neither since you said "100/200/300" yards. If you had said 100, then I'd say Eotech trumps Aimpoint.

But for your use, you need to get a magnified optic of at least 3 or 4 power minimum to shoot at 200 yards or more. Preferably more like 9/10x+. A 1x dot completely covers your bullseye and quite a bit more around the bullseye at 200+.

Consequently, since you didn't mention a limiting budget, this is probably the best scope for you - giving you the best of both worlds:

http://www.swfa.com/c-542-elcan-spec...al-sights.aspx

Both 1x and 4x with the flip of a switch.

PPGMD · July 29, 2007, 02:12 AM

For mostly semi-sniper shots I would go for the 308 version of the 4x ACOG with a doctor dot mounted on the top.

For mostly CWB with light ranged work I would get an Aimpoint CompM4, CompM3, or CompML3 (using the Larue mount for the CompM(L)3) with the Aimpoint 3x magnifier mounted using the Larue pivot mount.

For CQB only it's pretty much personal preference between Aimpoint and Eotech, I personlly prefer Aimpoint (using of the above listed models), but some people like the Eotechs.

lincoln1 · July 29, 2007, 08:12 AM

good feedback from all, i appreciate it. wow, the elcan 1x/4x looks great, but it seems pricey an the AimPoint m3/ml3 + 3xmag or EOTech with 3xag seem logical choices as components that can be purchased as budget allows. probably only needs a longer top rail for the both?

PPGMD · July 29, 2007, 01:18 PM

Yeah you need about 8-9 inches of top rail, though you can put you rear folding BUIS under a Larue mounted magnifier because when you need to use the BUIS it would be pivoted out of the way anyways.

lincoln1 · July 30, 2007, 05:17 AM

thanks, i am getting closer with your help and the research. i like the pivoting mount, sounds like the ticket.

2 perhaps foolish questions...

1) with a 3x mag positioned behind, is the "unlimited eye relief" gone? i would think the 3xMag dictates and needs to be mounted that distance away from the eye. right?.

i ask because if i change to a different length butt stock, it means adjusting the 3xMag either forward or rear, and that means planning w/the manufacturer of the stock, for top rail length and placement.

2)does it matter about the distance between the 2 units? should they be mated with or without a gap between them?

PPGMD · July 30, 2007, 09:09 AM

When you are using the 3x scope you loose the unlimited eye relief, but when it's pivoted out of the way you are back to the usual Aimpoint.

I left about a half and inch to a inch between the scopes. As far as repositioning the two because of a change in the length of the buttstock, how often do you expect to do that? Once I got everything together the way I wanted it, the rifle mostly stays the same. I do have a rifle that I play around with but it's not my main expensive rifle.

lincoln1 · July 30, 2007, 05:21 PM

i'll get the aimpoint first, mount to the OE stock and use it in that set-up for a while, but i am considering the JAE-100 as a replacement. i will get the 3xMag before the JAE-100, i'll want to but a mounting system that will work with both so i do not have to buy a 2nd set-up. i think i have to give the specs to JAE prior to manufacturing.

of course this is going as budget allows.

lincoln1 · July 31, 2007, 05:02 AM

ok, i picked up the socom today, fired it and was it ever, rock solid. i am a happy guy. thanks everyone for the input on scopes. i know i will quickly over-spend and just go for an aimpoint almost immediately. i looked through the case at the dealer and of course once i held a couple and looked through them i can see it will enhance the enjoyment ten-fold.

July 27, 2007, 01:57 AM	#1
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	i need advice on scopes for a m1a 16" barrel it's probably been discussed over and over, but does anybody have feedback on the aimpoint red dot technology vs eotech holo type vs conventional optical lens. i get to pick one for my very own this time (not shooting a friend's set-up) so i'd like to get advice so i get it right. since it is a 16" barrel i am not trying for 500 yds, i figure target 100/200/300 yds paper and closer for small game (or gopher patrol).

July 27, 2007, 09:43 PM	#2
john_galt Member Join Date: May 5, 2007 Location: nova Posts: 57	I have a socomII with an EOTech 552 (NV, AA battery). 100 yds is all my eyes can take without magnification. I can hit a soda can no problem (prone, bench). 50 yds and in is all I try standing, with a front grip. Very easy to shoot with. I never tried the Aimpoint, I have an EOTech for my shotgun as well. __________________ "So you think that money is the root of all evil?" "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?"

July 28, 2007, 02:46 AM	#3
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	aimpoint vs eotech scope yeah, who knows what my eyes will be able to handle in the "OE" condition, i know i would benefit with a trip to lens crafters...i may get magnification down the road whether a red dot or the holographic. my problem is that everybody loves the one that they have, and talks it up. i don't totally understand how each work, in a side by side comparison. has anyone used both, on the same rifle, one after the other and figured one had an advantage? if so what was the reason? thanks

July 28, 2007, 10:32 PM	#4
john_galt Member Join Date: May 5, 2007 Location: nova Posts: 57	I think either one that you go with will be good. What tipped me was the demonstration of the reticle visible on the EOTech even if there is mud on it or it is cracked. The bullet goes where the dot is. Also the red light cannot be seen from the barrel end, only you see the red dot. On the EOTech it is actually a red dot with a larger circle around it. I like that better than a single dot. I also like the 1 MOA vs a 2 or 4 MOA. heres a pic. I have mine about 1/3 of the way down the rail. It sits about 19" from my eye. I find it easier to focus on the target using both eyes with the sight further away. __________________ "So you think that money is the root of all evil?" "Have you ever asked what is the root of money?"

July 28, 2007, 11:11 PM	#5
FirstFreedom Junior member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: The Toll Road State, U.S.A. Posts: 12,451	The answer is neither since you said "100/200/300" yards. If you had said 100, then I'd say Eotech trumps Aimpoint. But for your use, you need to get a magnified optic of at least 3 or 4 power minimum to shoot at 200 yards or more. Preferably more like 9/10x+. A 1x dot completely covers your bullseye and quite a bit more around the bullseye at 200+. Consequently, since you didn't mention a limiting budget, this is probably the best scope for you - giving you the best of both worlds: http://www.swfa.com/c-542-elcan-spec...al-sights.aspx Both 1x and 4x with the flip of a switch.

July 29, 2007, 02:12 AM	#6
PPGMD Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 348	For mostly semi-sniper shots I would go for the 308 version of the 4x ACOG with a doctor dot mounted on the top. For mostly CWB with light ranged work I would get an Aimpoint CompM4, CompM3, or CompML3 (using the Larue mount for the CompM(L)3) with the Aimpoint 3x magnifier mounted using the Larue pivot mount. For CQB only it's pretty much personal preference between Aimpoint and Eotech, I personlly prefer Aimpoint (using of the above listed models), but some people like the Eotechs.

July 29, 2007, 08:12 AM	#7
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	good feedback from all, i appreciate it. wow, the elcan 1x/4x looks great, but it seems pricey an the AimPoint m3/ml3 + 3xmag or EOTech with 3xag seem logical choices as components that can be purchased as budget allows. probably only needs a longer top rail for the both?

July 29, 2007, 01:18 PM	#8
PPGMD Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 348	Yeah you need about 8-9 inches of top rail, though you can put you rear folding BUIS under a Larue mounted magnifier because when you need to use the BUIS it would be pivoted out of the way anyways.

July 30, 2007, 05:17 AM	#9
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	thanks, i am getting closer with your help and the research. i like the pivoting mount, sounds like the ticket. 2 perhaps foolish questions... 1) with a 3x mag positioned behind, is the "unlimited eye relief" gone? i would think the 3xMag dictates and needs to be mounted that distance away from the eye. right?. i ask because if i change to a different length butt stock, it means adjusting the 3xMag either forward or rear, and that means planning w/the manufacturer of the stock, for top rail length and placement. 2)does it matter about the distance between the 2 units? should they be mated with or without a gap between them?

July 30, 2007, 09:09 AM	#10
PPGMD Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Posts: 348	When you are using the 3x scope you loose the unlimited eye relief, but when it's pivoted out of the way you are back to the usual Aimpoint. I left about a half and inch to a inch between the scopes. As far as repositioning the two because of a change in the length of the buttstock, how often do you expect to do that? Once I got everything together the way I wanted it, the rifle mostly stays the same. I do have a rifle that I play around with but it's not my main expensive rifle.

July 30, 2007, 05:21 PM	#11
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	i'll get the aimpoint first, mount to the OE stock and use it in that set-up for a while, but i am considering the JAE-100 as a replacement. i will get the 3xMag before the JAE-100, i'll want to but a mounting system that will work with both so i do not have to buy a 2nd set-up. i think i have to give the specs to JAE prior to manufacturing. of course this is going as budget allows.

July 31, 2007, 05:02 AM	#12
lincoln1 Member Join Date: July 21, 2007 Location: san francisco Posts: 28	ok, i picked up the socom today, fired it and was it ever, rock solid. i am a happy guy. thanks everyone for the input on scopes. i know i will quickly over-spend and just go for an aimpoint almost immediately. i looked through the case at the dealer and of course once i held a couple and looked through them i can see it will enhance the enjoyment ten-fold.