45 ACP what size bullet do I need.

[Dustin0]

I am kind of new to hand loading. I have reloaded shot shell for years. I am about to start loading 45 ACP and 7mm-08. On the 45 there is .451 and .452 I was wanting to know witch on was used for 45 ACP so that I dont buy the wrong bullets for likie a 45 Colt. If you have any ideas on what wieght I sould use for target rounds. PS my 45 only likes ball ammo.

[kraigwy]

Either .451 or .452 will work. Unless you have some weird barrel.

Older 45 LCs were .454, but I think they are pretty much all .452 now. Might be an accuracy differance but to tell you should try some of each. But the same thing thing for all bullets or any other components.

[Sam06]

Dustin, You will be fine with either in the 45ACP. Jacketed bullets "Usually" Measure in at .451 and cast bullets go at .452.

The 45 Colt shoots bullets from .452-.454 depending on the age and make of the gun.

The thing to watch is COL when loading for a Autoloader. Too long and they will not chamber. This is a little more critical in an Auto than a Wheelgun.

[cchardwick]

I cast my 45 ACP to .452 and then size them to .451 per my loading manual. They shoot great, no problems.

[vranasaurus]

If your going with jacketed bullets and your gun doesn't like anything but ball, just get some 230 gr FMJ and you should be good.

[Shane Tuttle]

It is amazing in one post you just got your casting equipment, and now your are giving advice? UFDA!

So? If his answer is the correct one, what's the problem? By the way, why don't you tell all of us what UFDA means while you're at it.

Seems to me that cchardwick read up on the information and got it right the first time.

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How about this piece of information, rn22723? What say you?

[LHB1]

Dustin,
Cast lead bullets for .45 ACP are available in .451" and .452" diameter. Both have worked equally well for me over the last 44 years of reloading this cartridge. Some people say that .451" will lead more than .452" but my experience has not been so. Bullet weights available for .45 ACP are typically 185 gr, 200 gr, or 230 gr. I have used 185 and 200 gr with good success. I have never loaded jacketed bullets in this caliber.

[Unclenick]

It depends on your chamber, throat, barrel, and the powder you use. The normal practice is to size jacketed bullet to match the groove diameter of the barrel. In the .45 ACP that number is .451". This idea is that if a bore is slightly over or under that size, that will be the best compromise fit that gives a good enough gas seal with the least excess friction.

Because the copper jacket has a Brinell Hardness Number (BHN) between 90-100, while cast lead pistol bullets are usually only about BHN 16 (other lead bullets can be anywhere from BHN 5 to 30, going from swaged to heat treated), the jacketed bullet base can resist gas cutting much better. The softer lead cannot tolerate any significant degree of it without splattering it all over the bore, which happens mainly just ahead of the throat where the pressure is at its peak if this is your gun's problem. Commercial bullet makers therefore normally size lead bullets 0.001" over groove diameter. In the .45 ACP this is .452". Squeezing lead bullets down a thousandth into the narrower bore takes less effort than getting a standard diameter jacketed bullet into the rifling, and knowing that better guarantees a good gas seal.

Even then, experience has shown that revolvers, with their chamber throats venting at the barrel/cylinder gap, often do better with an even bigger bullet. Most .45 Colts made after WW II and even the ".454 Casull Magnum" are now all made with 0.451" groove diameter barrels, same as the .45 ACP. Like the .45 ACP, the jacketed bullets for them are made 0.451" diameter and the lead bullets are made 0.452" diameter by most manufacturers. Some custom makers, though, offer the option of sizing revolver bullets 0.002" over groove diameter. For the .45 Colt revolvers, cast bullets at 0.453" often give peak accuracy, especially if the cylinder has had its chambers reamed to maximum dimensions to improve accuracy. Some lever rifles, also like the extra thousandth diameter. Self-loading pistols are usually satisfied to have lead bullets just 0.001" over.

[cchardwick]

Yep, I'm a newbie and giving advice, rather just relaying advice published in my Lyman Reloading Handbook. This is what it says:

Groove diameters can vary from .450 to .453 but the shooter should not size cast bullets larger than 0.451 due to chamber dimensions.

[rn22723]

Hey guys......some of the crap posted is just plain wrong!
Jacketed bullets for the 45ACP should be .451. Traditional hard cast commercial bullets usually run .452. Now if a person really working at it they would SLUG their bbl and then use that measuremetn for a basis of sizing their cast bullets to the specific bbl.

UFDA is Scandahovian for Holy Fecal Matter!

[CountryJoe]

I am looking at Cabela's site, at Winchester bulk 45 ACP and it says they are .452 and .451 in different places on the site. I contacted cust service and they confirmed they are .452. I just took a caliper and checkde my barrel of my Kimber 1911, from one groove to the opposing groove, at the muzzle. It shows .452.

As I look around the internet, I see most jacketed 45 ACP described as .451, with plated (such as berry's) having them as .452. I know the plated Berry's are softer and thinner and will therefore be more tolerated by the gun.

I am a bit confused and concerned, as I am a perfectionist and want to do the right thing. I am just starting reloading, but want to make sure I make the best decisions early.

Can anyone tell me, definitively, that I can or can not use the .452 jacketed to reload 45 ACP?

Thank you, Joe

[Unclenick]

M22723,

Assurance is no problem. Commercial cast and lead bullets for .45 ACP have always been .452". Everyone else in the country is using them without a problem. Since I started shooting competitively in the early '80's I've probably put 100,000 of them through just two barrels without wearing either of them out internally. Can't say the same for hardball, which usually knocks a 1911 barrel down in about 20,000 rounds.

Originally Posted by Lyman via Cchardwick

Groove diameters can vary from .450 to .453 but the shooter should not size cast bullets larger than 0.451 due to chamber dimensions.

Oy vey Maria. All the commercial ammo and bullet makers in the country have it wrong, but Lyman knows better? Sorry. This practice will lead to leading problems in many guns. I've got to find the quote in my Lyman manual and write Lyman about that.

While the military barrel specs are rather wide, actual modern manufacturing is seldom out by more than half a thousandth. And no, a caliper cannot be relied upon to measure that accurately as that exceeds their normal accuracy tolerance of 0.001". You need a bore gauge with 0.0001" resolution or, assuming you have an even number of lands and grooves in your bore, you can slug the lightly oiled bore with a pure lead slug (Hornady round ball is close enough to pure) and apply an OD thimble micrometer with 0.0001" vernier scale across the land marks. Don't forget to measure its zero first to get the error to tare the measurement with.

I can appreciate Lyman's concern about the finished round not fitting the chamber, but that is pretty unusual, or, again, the commercial bullet and ammo makers wouldn't use that size. Chamber dimensions normally have plenty of room. I now cast and shoot the Lee Tumble Lube bullet for .45 and .38 almost exclusively. These have tiny crush grooves for their Tumble lube and my .45's come out typically 0.4535" in this bullet and the .38's are about 0.360. Both shoot rings around the commercial cast bullets I buy. The .38's actually cut group size out of my K-frame target revolver in half.

If you look at military .30 caliber barrel specifications, you will find they run 0.3065" to 0.3095". If the military has found you can push a .308 jacketed bullet safely through a 0.0015" undersized bore at 60,000 psi, the idea a soft lead bullet just 0.001" over and fired at much lower pressure and velocity would even begin to cause a pressure problem is way off the SWAG meter. It just isn't an issue.

I can give other examples of undersized bores working with jacketed bullets. The French MAB pistol had a .309 bore that .312" bullets were shot through routinely. We've even had a few stories of very lucky fellows who had managed to shoot a .308 bullet through a 7 mm (0.284") bore without damaging the gun. That is obviously very dangerous and should not be tried. But it is a testament to modern gun strength and puts a little perspective on worrying about squeezing down 0.001" of lead. Remember, you can push the lead through a couple of thousandths of sizing in a zing die with no problem and you are applying a lot less force than chamber pressure does.