Knurled Cleaning Rods ??BAD??

Joe Taylor · July 25, 2002, 10:13 PM

Hello

Hope this is the right place for this question, more of a concern really.

Just bought an Outers .22 cleaning kit for my stainless Mini-14. Noticed, though not until I was ready to use it, that the main rod that you screw all of the attachments to is knurled. I know that it is only aluminum, but still, it can't be good running this thing up and down my barrel, can it? No matter how careful I am, this knurled part still rubs the inside. I know because my patches have tiny flakes of aluminum on them.

Is this a bad thing?

kurt IA. · July 26, 2002, 07:04 AM

The only rods that go in my barrels are one pice coated, AL rods pick up grit and that acts like a lap.

Romulus · July 26, 2002, 08:01 AM

Agree...never mind the knurling, mind the aluminum. That stuff will chew up barrel steel FAST

Watchman · July 26, 2002, 12:25 PM

Just how in the heck is the softer aluminum going to eat up steel barrels ?`

I think that that is vastly overstated. I've used cheap aluminum rods for 35 years and never had a problem with them "eating" up a barrel. I have broke a few over the years but thats about it.

As for the coated rods, dont you think that that plastic coating on the rod will pick up more grit than the aluminum ?

You had better get in a habit of wiping your coated rod off after every stroke, if not, it too acts a a "lap".

Sport45 · July 26, 2002, 12:36 PM

I also use aluminum rods. I agree that the coated rods are just as likely, if not more, to pick up grit. My preference, when available, is to use a one piece steel rod. I have a steel rod long enough for my handguns but not for the rifles. The arguement against aluminum rods normally centers on the presence of aluminum oxide on the outer surface. Contrary to popular belief aluminum corrodes very rapidly. The corrosion layer is self-sealing though, preventing further corrosion. This aluminum oxide layer IS hard enough to scratch a steel barrel. Next time you're in a hardware store look at what grinding wheels are made of. Aluminum oxide is also a popular grit for sandpaper. But like I said, I use aluminum cleaning rods. I'm very careful though and try to always apply force pulling patches through so as to avoid "bowing" the rod and draggind along the bore.

rocko · July 26, 2002, 02:26 PM

I'm not horribly familiar with the mini-14 - can you clean that from the breech? If so, I'd recommend you buy a bore guide which should prevent most of the contact with the bore with any sort of cleaning rod. If the only option is to clean from the muzzle end, I would recommend looking at one of the pull-through cleaning systems like the Otis. You really shouldn't be sticking any sort of cleaning rod down the muzzle no matter what it is made of, if you can avoid it...

But yeah, it isn't the aluminum on the rod that you need to worry about, it is the oxidation that isn't easily seen which is very hard.

Rocko

Romulus · July 26, 2002, 02:46 PM

Watchman, yes aluminum is softer than steel...it's not the aluminum itself that eats the steel, but the aluminum oxide that naturally forms on all aluminum base metal. Aluminum oxide is so abrasive in fact, that it is the grit of choice for sandpaper manufacturers. Look at a sheet of sandpaper, chances are that it says "aluminum oxide" somewhere on the sheet. It is extremely abrasive even in micro-crystalline form, that white haze that forms on aluminum.

Good thing you have good technique and know how to keep a rod from touching a crown...

Ledbetter · July 26, 2002, 03:43 PM

Aluminum may be soft, but the oxide it forms is very abrasive. Also most aluminum rods are not highly polished an my hold grit and oxide in their surface, where it can damage your barrel.

Plastic can also embed grit and abrasive materials, or simply shave off on sharp rifling.

For .22s, I use a tung oil coated wooden 1/8" dowel, that gets wiped after every pass, to push patches through until clean. For everything else (rifles) I use a one-piece graphite rod from Brownells (also wiped after every pass). When cleaning from the breech is impossible, use a CLEAN nylon muzzle guide.

Regards.

kurt IA. · July 26, 2002, 08:32 PM

Contack any one of the coustom barrel makers, and ask them. Bet you here, one pice coated rod.

Romulus · July 26, 2002, 10:15 PM

Sport45, I missed your post preceding mine...you said it better

Watchman · July 27, 2002, 01:34 PM

"Good thing you have good technique and know how to keep a rod from touching a crown..."

Actually, since I clean from the breech end on my rifles I am very careful to not to even touch the crown.

When we hear of improper cleaning technigues, the damage is mostly done not from the aluminum rod itself, but from the aluminum rod, or any other rod being used fron the muzzle end instead of the breach end. It is there that the crown gets dinged up , its there that all of the horror stories come from.

Yeah I know that aluminum oxide is harder or more abrasive than aliminum itself.
I still think that the aluminum oxide rubbing your rifleing off is still overated.

How long do you think it would take using nothing but an aluminum rod to mess up rifleing. ? I bet it would take a whole lot more time than most of us would be willing to commit.

Lots of people dont know that the way to properly clean a rifle is from the breech end, in the direction of bullet travel. I realize that is some guns this is impossible, but it is doable with most modern bolt action rifles. Even some semis (AR-15) for example can be broken down to accomplish this. How many times have you seen someone cleaning an AR form the breech end.? Most of the shooters I know do that.

Like I said, I have yet to mess up a gun, breech, crown or whatever with an aluminum rod.

FWIW, Ive made several various sized brass rods that I use these days. Ive got one for my .50 that is 7/16 dia. and 42 inches long.

4 Eyed Six Shooter · July 27, 2002, 07:41 PM

Yes, aluminum rods will cause wear. Mini 14's can only be cleaned from the muzzle with a rod due to their construction. Coated rods can be wiped every pass with a rag and will not carry crud back into the bore. Use the aluminum rod if you wish, but it is a fact that they do cause wear as was stated in the previous replys to this thread. Hope this helps

Good Shooting

, John K

July 25, 2002, 10:13 PM	#1
Joe Taylor Member Join Date: July 21, 2002 Location: Utah Posts: 28	Knurled Cleaning Rods ??BAD?? Hello Hope this is the right place for this question, more of a concern really. Just bought an Outers .22 cleaning kit for my stainless Mini-14. Noticed, though not until I was ready to use it, that the main rod that you screw all of the attachments to is knurled. I know that it is only aluminum, but still, it can't be good running this thing up and down my barrel, can it? No matter how careful I am, this knurled part still rubs the inside. I know because my patches have tiny flakes of aluminum on them. Is this a bad thing?

July 26, 2002, 08:01 AM	#3
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Agree...never mind the knurling, mind the aluminum. That stuff will chew up barrel steel FAST __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

July 26, 2002, 12:36 PM	#5
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	I use 'em too I also use aluminum rods. I agree that the coated rods are just as likely, if not more, to pick up grit. My preference, when available, is to use a one piece steel rod. I have a steel rod long enough for my handguns but not for the rifles. The arguement against aluminum rods normally centers on the presence of aluminum oxide on the outer surface. Contrary to popular belief aluminum corrodes very rapidly. The corrosion layer is self-sealing though, preventing further corrosion. This aluminum oxide layer IS hard enough to scratch a steel barrel. Next time you're in a hardware store look at what grinding wheels are made of. Aluminum oxide is also a popular grit for sandpaper. But like I said, I use aluminum cleaning rods. I'm very careful though and try to always apply force pulling patches through so as to avoid "bowing" the rod and draggind along the bore. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

July 26, 2002, 02:46 PM	#7
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Watchman, yes aluminum is softer than steel...it's not the aluminum itself that eats the steel, but the aluminum oxide that naturally forms on all aluminum base metal. Aluminum oxide is so abrasive in fact, that it is the grit of choice for sandpaper manufacturers. Look at a sheet of sandpaper, chances are that it says "aluminum oxide" somewhere on the sheet. It is extremely abrasive even in micro-crystalline form, that white haze that forms on aluminum. Good thing you have good technique and know how to keep a rod from touching a crown... __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

July 26, 2002, 03:43 PM	#8
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	Romulus is right on. Aluminum may be soft, but the oxide it forms is very abrasive. Also most aluminum rods are not highly polished an my hold grit and oxide in their surface, where it can damage your barrel. Plastic can also embed grit and abrasive materials, or simply shave off on sharp rifling. For .22s, I use a tung oil coated wooden 1/8" dowel, that gets wiped after every pass, to push patches through until clean. For everything else (rifles) I use a one-piece graphite rod from Brownells (also wiped after every pass). When cleaning from the breech is impossible, use a CLEAN nylon muzzle guide. Regards.

July 26, 2002, 07:04 AM	#2
kurt IA. Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 141	The only rods that go in my barrels are one pice coated, AL rods pick up grit and that acts like a lap.

July 26, 2002, 12:25 PM	#4
Watchman Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 484	Just how in the heck is the softer aluminum going to eat up steel barrels ?` I think that that is vastly overstated. I've used cheap aluminum rods for 35 years and never had a problem with them "eating" up a barrel. I have broke a few over the years but thats about it. As for the coated rods, dont you think that that plastic coating on the rod will pick up more grit than the aluminum ? You had better get in a habit of wiping your coated rod off after every stroke, if not, it too acts a a "lap".

July 26, 2002, 02:26 PM	#6
rocko Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2001 Posts: 229	I'm not horribly familiar with the mini-14 - can you clean that from the breech? If so, I'd recommend you buy a bore guide which should prevent most of the contact with the bore with any sort of cleaning rod. If the only option is to clean from the muzzle end, I would recommend looking at one of the pull-through cleaning systems like the Otis. You really shouldn't be sticking any sort of cleaning rod down the muzzle no matter what it is made of, if you can avoid it... But yeah, it isn't the aluminum on the rod that you need to worry about, it is the oxidation that isn't easily seen which is very hard. Rocko

July 26, 2002, 08:32 PM	#9
kurt IA. Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 141	Contack any one of the coustom barrel makers, and ask them. Bet you here, one pice coated rod.

July 26, 2002, 10:15 PM	#10
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Sport45, I missed your post preceding mine...you said it better __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

July 27, 2002, 01:34 PM	#11
Watchman Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 484	"Good thing you have good technique and know how to keep a rod from touching a crown..." Actually, since I clean from the breech end on my rifles I am very careful to not to even touch the crown. When we hear of improper cleaning technigues, the damage is mostly done not from the aluminum rod itself, but from the aluminum rod, or any other rod being used fron the muzzle end instead of the breach end. It is there that the crown gets dinged up , its there that all of the horror stories come from. Yeah I know that aluminum oxide is harder or more abrasive than aliminum itself. I still think that the aluminum oxide rubbing your rifleing off is still overated. How long do you think it would take using nothing but an aluminum rod to mess up rifleing. ? I bet it would take a whole lot more time than most of us would be willing to commit. Lots of people dont know that the way to properly clean a rifle is from the breech end, in the direction of bullet travel. I realize that is some guns this is impossible, but it is doable with most modern bolt action rifles. Even some semis (AR-15) for example can be broken down to accomplish this. How many times have you seen someone cleaning an AR form the breech end.? Most of the shooters I know do that. Like I said, I have yet to mess up a gun, breech, crown or whatever with an aluminum rod. FWIW, Ive made several various sized brass rods that I use these days. Ive got one for my .50 that is 7/16 dia. and 42 inches long.

July 27, 2002, 07:41 PM	#12
4 Eyed Six Shooter Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2001 Location: Idaho Posts: 105	Yes, aluminum rods will cause wear. Mini 14's can only be cleaned from the muzzle with a rod due to their construction. Coated rods can be wiped every pass with a rag and will not carry crud back into the bore. Use the aluminum rod if you wish, but it is a fact that they do cause wear as was stated in the previous replys to this thread. Hope this helps Good Shooting , John K __________________ www.savagegunsmithing.com Fight Crime-Shoot Back!!!! Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting more than once!!!