Belgian Centaures 1860 Army

Willie Sutton · January 21, 2013, 10:38 AM

Got to love mis-described auction ads. Where else can you find a nice 1860 Centaures for less than the price of a Pietta? Totally different paradigm of replica.

Just scored a nice 1860 Belgian, any other owners?

Willie

.

Doc Hoy · January 21, 2013, 11:47 AM

...I own SN 952 and came by it in much the same way at a gun show about four years ago.

Bought two revolvers for 200.00. One was a .44 Colt with an 1851 pattern barrel and a steel frame. Not great condition. The other was SN 952. Also not in great condition.

Had it gone over to the tune of 260.00.

You bought a revolver to be proud of.

To get it for the price you paid, is a bonus.

mykeal · January 21, 2013, 01:00 PM

Got two, both purchased at auction (different auctions) for less than $150 each.

wap41 · January 21, 2013, 07:59 PM

I have two I bought a few years ago,great quality and very accurate

Doc Hoy · January 21, 2013, 08:15 PM

...That has established what is essentially a virtual shrine to these high quality revolvers.

http://www.1960nma.org

They will be very interested in knowing the particulars of your revolver. They are seeking to catalogue every one which was ever made and your info could appreciably add to their knowledge base.

These revolvers may actually be a closer approximation of the original Colt 1860, than the Imperato marketed second and third gen Colts.

Old Dragoon · January 21, 2013, 08:45 PM

Thanks Willy you out bid me. LOL!
No hard feelings. Glad to know it went to someone here.
I was looking to make that one a friend of the one I got last month.
You got it for a fair price.

Mine is the Cavalry Model S/N F698 with the full fluted cylinder that sold on GB in DEC.

I'll keep looking for the one to pair with this one. Another Cavalry model would be the cat's whiskers, or Meouw or??

Willie Sutton · January 22, 2013, 01:51 AM

^^ Sorry Buddy.... I think it was fairly sold too.

I've been looking for one for a while too. There were two at auction, the one I bought and a fancier one with gold-filled markings. I'm happy with the basic one. Any ideas of nipple sizes? This one will need a full set.

Thanks as well. Doc. I've seen that site and it's what got me interested in these. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to my Second Gen 1860 Army as well as few others I have in the safe. Hopes are high.

Best,

Willie

.

Bootsie · January 22, 2013, 02:53 AM

Regarding nipples for the Centaures aka Centennial Armies: newly made Beryllium nipples for the Centaures are available.
Please, find the address of the dealer at the bottom of left navigation bar of www.1960nma.org
Long Johns Wolf

Willie Sutton · January 22, 2013, 09:03 AM

^^ Thank You!

Willie

.

indy1919 · January 22, 2013, 10:06 AM

Hey many thanks for this info, I had never heard of this company before, and will have to look for one of these .

It is kind of neat how this is just one more in a long line of Belgium copied firearms that was shipped over here to the US (as well as other places) as cheaper (more affordable) copies of the originals. By jiminy it would be something to figure out in the day of the old west how many guns were from Belgium??

Willie Sutton · January 22, 2013, 12:05 PM

^^^ LOADS of them, probably.

Willie

.

Old Dragoon · January 22, 2013, 12:23 PM

Yeah Willie, that fancy one was way out of my reach also and too darn nice to shoot. BTW the nipple sie is 6MM-.75 which makes sense as the screw i need to replace the Stock(4th) screw in mine are 6mm and are too loose in a 6mm-1.0 at my nearest Ace Hardware store....I am betting the the nipple size and the 4th screw are the same pitch.

Willie Sutton · February 3, 2013, 10:38 AM

Well, the first of four of these critters finally reached my door yesterday. This wil be my only "fix" for a few weeks, as the other three will arrive after I leave today for a 3 week business trip. Oh well...

In any event the thing is a beauty, and is definately "different" than the Italian copies. Case coloring is rich, the wood is excellent quality with beautiful grain, finish is excellent, contours on the loading lever area, etc., are slightly different and look more like the original, knurling on top of the hammer is quite a bit sharper, arbor length is correct, wedge pushed out with finger pressure and reseated with ease, etc. I'd say it meets exactly what I expected.

This particular example was obviously a shooter. The area where you load the caps has been marked a bit, the cylinder notches have just a bit of wear, overall condition shows it's been shot, and the entire thing is loaded with heavy grease (including the inside of the cylinders). The nipples are missing, leading me to think that it was deliberately used for dry-firing on a routine basis, possibly for a movie production or similar. When I get back I'll strip the grips, disassemble it, pull the grip frame off, degrease the entire thing, reassemble, and lubricate. Need to figure out what the nipple size is, I know that the Germans sell them mail order but Treso must have nipples that will fit. This will make a great shooter, and a decent example for a collector.

Three more to go! I'm glad this one is in the condition it is in... the new in box ones will never be shot. Sometimes things can be "too nice" to really enjoy.

Willie

.

Old Dragoon · February 3, 2013, 04:59 PM

Willie,
The nipple size is 6mm x .75, but I do not know the length, they are for sale on the www.1960nma.org website, made by a member in Germany. Dixie has a few different ones from Ampco and the like, but without knowing the length it might be hard to get the right ones.

I looked these up before you beat me out on the bid. Glad you got her home though.

Willie Sutton · February 4, 2013, 09:21 PM

^^ Thanks. I'll score some of the ones available here, taking a guess by looking at my other 1860's, and if they do not work I can always send off to the Germans.

If I let this one go, I'll give rights of first refusal here first.

Willie

.

sltm1 · February 4, 2013, 10:20 PM

I've got one, gave it to a friend to have it engraved....I might not shoot it again once he's done, unless I'm standing on a foam rubber platform. Interesting tidbit about these guns, Samuel Colt licensed a Belgian company(s) to copy his guns in the mid 1800's and the license had no expiration date, some folks think these are the "real" 2nd Gen guns made by the FAUL consortium.

woodnbow · February 4, 2013, 11:35 PM

Keep me in mind Willie... still looking..

Willie Sutton · February 5, 2013, 10:33 AM

some folks think these are the "real" 2nd Gen guns made by the FAUL consortium.

Some folks think Elvis works at 7-11 too.

No Colts were ever made using the license that Colt granted. To fluff it up 100 years later as "Authorized".... well.... it's good marketing. So good that some folks actually believe it...

It's a good copy. Very good, in fact. Not perfect: I can show you contours that are quite different than an original, but it's picking nits. They are excellent copies. Better by far than contemporary Italian ones. Better by a little than the modern copies available today.

Love to see your engraved one when it's done.

Willie

.

sltm1 · February 5, 2013, 10:55 AM

Willie, I post pic' of it for sure. Back to the licensing story, the other reality is that they only made brevette's of the 51', not the 60'...sales pitch ot not, it rolls off the tongue better than "Made in Italy and finished in the USA". BTW, Elvis works at Jiffy Lube.

pohill · February 5, 2013, 11:43 AM

I'm a fan of Belgian guns. I have a few originals and they've stood up well over a hundred or so years. As far as the 1860s - I had one briefly but never fired it. It seems that they all need work of some sorts right out of the box (no big deal). So, what actually makes them better than other copies? Is the steel harder? Are the screw and nipple threads metric or American?

Old Dragoon · February 5, 2013, 11:36 PM

Better steel and Metric threads. Go here for more infor.
www.1960nma.org. Enough reading to keep you busy for a while and some myths set to rest.

Old Dragoon · February 7, 2013, 05:27 PM

Woodnbow,
You get that Centaur on GB? I think it went for a fair price, maybe even cheap if it is what it was listed as.

woodnbow · February 7, 2013, 07:32 PM

Nope, it shot right past my price... I'm looking more for a shooter, that one's a bit too nice. It looked unfired, barely had the cylinder turned! I'm patient tho', I've got a couple of leads and figure I'll see what Willie turns up once he gets done looking over his stash.

Old Dragoon · February 7, 2013, 08:19 PM

Here's a couple shots of the one I bought in December.
Yep it is loaded and ready to go to the wall, but it is non fired as of today.
Was stored badly so has some pits on the exterior, but the chamber bores and the bbl bore is slcik as it was in 1962 when it was made. She's gonna be my shooter since the shabby storage for 50 years.

BTW the safety pins on the cylinder and the hammer safety slot work as they should.

1962 Centaur 1860 NMA 3rd Model Cavalry, 3 digit S/N with an F(fluted?) prefix.

Willie Sutton · February 7, 2013, 10:38 PM

^^ Thats's a beauty! I've always liked the fluted 1860's. Think those and the Pocket Police are the best looking of the Colts.

The one on GB sold for $480, which I would say is about right. $500 is more or less what a really nice one ought to cost... even a good shooter is worth over $400 these days.

Willie

(The box-o-Centaures is arriving in a few days, sadly I am on the road and will not see them for nigh a month...)

January 21, 2013, 10:38 AM	#1
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Belgian Centaures 1860 Army Got to love mis-described auction ads. Where else can you find a nice 1860 Centaures for less than the price of a Pietta? Totally different paradigm of replica. Just scored a nice 1860 Belgian, any other owners? Willie .

January 21, 2013, 11:47 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Willie... ...I own SN 952 and came by it in much the same way at a gun show about four years ago. Bought two revolvers for 200.00. One was a .44 Colt with an 1851 pattern barrel and a steel frame. Not great condition. The other was SN 952. Also not in great condition. Had it gone over to the tune of 260.00. You bought a revolver to be proud of. To get it for the price you paid, is a bonus. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 21, 2013, 07:59 PM	#4
wap41 Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 2009 Posts: 99	1960 new army I have two I bought a few years ago,great quality and very accurate

January 21, 2013, 08:15 PM	#5
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	There is a group in Europe.... ...That has established what is essentially a virtual shrine to these high quality revolvers. http://www.1960nma.org They will be very interested in knowing the particulars of your revolver. They are seeking to catalogue every one which was ever made and your info could appreciably add to their knowledge base. These revolvers may actually be a closer approximation of the original Colt 1860, than the Imperato marketed second and third gen Colts. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

January 21, 2013, 08:45 PM	#6
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	SOOOO! It was YOU!!!! Thanks Willy you out bid me. LOL! No hard feelings. Glad to know it went to someone here. I was looking to make that one a friend of the one I got last month. You got it for a fair price. Mine is the Cavalry Model S/N F698 with the full fluted cylinder that sold on GB in DEC. I'll keep looking for the one to pair with this one. Another Cavalry model would be the cat's whiskers, or Meouw or?? Last edited by Old Dragoon; January 21, 2013 at 09:13 PM.

January 21, 2013, 01:00 PM	#3
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Got two, both purchased at auction (different auctions) for less than $150 each.

January 22, 2013, 01:51 AM	#7
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Sorry Buddy.... I think it was fairly sold too. I've been looking for one for a while too. There were two at auction, the one I bought and a fancier one with gold-filled markings. I'm happy with the basic one. Any ideas of nipple sizes? This one will need a full set. Thanks as well. Doc. I've seen that site and it's what got me interested in these. It'll be interesting to see how it compares to my Second Gen 1860 Army as well as few others I have in the safe. Hopes are high. Best, Willie .

January 22, 2013, 02:53 AM	#8
Bootsie Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: Hofheim/Germany Posts: 102	Regarding nipples for the Centaures aka Centennial Armies: newly made Beryllium nipples for the Centaures are available. Please, find the address of the dealer at the bottom of left navigation bar of www.1960nma.org Long Johns Wolf

January 22, 2013, 09:03 AM	#9
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Thank You! Willie .

January 22, 2013, 10:06 AM	#10
indy1919 Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2011 Posts: 277	Many thanks for this Hey many thanks for this info, I had never heard of this company before, and will have to look for one of these . It is kind of neat how this is just one more in a long line of Belgium copied firearms that was shipped over here to the US (as well as other places) as cheaper (more affordable) copies of the originals. By jiminy it would be something to figure out in the day of the old west how many guns were from Belgium??

January 22, 2013, 12:05 PM	#11
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^^ LOADS of them, probably. Willie .

January 22, 2013, 12:23 PM	#12
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Yeah Willie, that fancy one was way out of my reach also and too darn nice to shoot. BTW the nipple sie is 6MM-.75 which makes sense as the screw i need to replace the Stock(4th) screw in mine are 6mm and are too loose in a 6mm-1.0 at my nearest Ace Hardware store....I am betting the the nipple size and the 4th screw are the same pitch.

February 3, 2013, 10:38 AM	#13
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	Well, the first of four of these critters finally reached my door yesterday. This wil be my only "fix" for a few weeks, as the other three will arrive after I leave today for a 3 week business trip. Oh well... In any event the thing is a beauty, and is definately "different" than the Italian copies. Case coloring is rich, the wood is excellent quality with beautiful grain, finish is excellent, contours on the loading lever area, etc., are slightly different and look more like the original, knurling on top of the hammer is quite a bit sharper, arbor length is correct, wedge pushed out with finger pressure and reseated with ease, etc. I'd say it meets exactly what I expected. This particular example was obviously a shooter. The area where you load the caps has been marked a bit, the cylinder notches have just a bit of wear, overall condition shows it's been shot, and the entire thing is loaded with heavy grease (including the inside of the cylinders). The nipples are missing, leading me to think that it was deliberately used for dry-firing on a routine basis, possibly for a movie production or similar. When I get back I'll strip the grips, disassemble it, pull the grip frame off, degrease the entire thing, reassemble, and lubricate. Need to figure out what the nipple size is, I know that the Germans sell them mail order but Treso must have nipples that will fit. This will make a great shooter, and a decent example for a collector. Three more to go! I'm glad this one is in the condition it is in... the new in box ones will never be shot. Sometimes things can be "too nice" to really enjoy. Willie .

February 3, 2013, 04:59 PM	#14
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Willie, The nipple size is 6mm x .75, but I do not know the length, they are for sale on the www.1960nma.org website, made by a member in Germany. Dixie has a few different ones from Ampco and the like, but without knowing the length it might be hard to get the right ones. I looked these up before you beat me out on the bid. Glad you got her home though.

February 4, 2013, 09:21 PM	#15
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Thanks. I'll score some of the ones available here, taking a guess by looking at my other 1860's, and if they do not work I can always send off to the Germans. If I let this one go, I'll give rights of first refusal here first. Willie .

February 4, 2013, 11:35 PM	#17
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	Keep me in mind Willie... still looking..

February 5, 2013, 10:33 AM	#18
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	some folks think these are the "real" 2nd Gen guns made by the FAUL consortium. Some folks think Elvis works at 7-11 too. No Colts were ever made using the license that Colt granted. To fluff it up 100 years later as "Authorized".... well.... it's good marketing. So good that some folks actually believe it... It's a good copy. Very good, in fact. Not perfect: I can show you contours that are quite different than an original, but it's picking nits. They are excellent copies. Better by far than contemporary Italian ones. Better by a little than the modern copies available today. Love to see your engraved one when it's done. Willie .

February 5, 2013, 10:55 AM	#19
sltm1 Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Location: Idaho Posts: 353	Willie, I post pic' of it for sure. Back to the licensing story, the other reality is that they only made brevette's of the 51', not the 60'...sales pitch ot not, it rolls off the tongue better than "Made in Italy and finished in the USA". BTW, Elvis works at Jiffy Lube.

February 5, 2013, 11:43 AM	#20
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I'm a fan of Belgian guns. I have a few originals and they've stood up well over a hundred or so years. As far as the 1860s - I had one briefly but never fired it. It seems that they all need work of some sorts right out of the box (no big deal). So, what actually makes them better than other copies? Is the steel harder? Are the screw and nipple threads metric or American?

February 5, 2013, 11:36 PM	#21
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Better steel and Metric threads. Go here for more infor. www.1960nma.org. Enough reading to keep you busy for a while and some myths set to rest.

February 7, 2013, 05:27 PM	#22
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Woodnbow, You get that Centaur on GB? I think it went for a fair price, maybe even cheap if it is what it was listed as.

February 7, 2013, 07:32 PM	#23
woodnbow Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2012 Posts: 190	Nope, it shot right past my price... I'm looking more for a shooter, that one's a bit too nice. It looked unfired, barely had the cylinder turned! I'm patient tho', I've got a couple of leads and figure I'll see what Willie turns up once he gets done looking over his stash. Last edited by woodnbow; February 7, 2013 at 07:46 PM.

February 7, 2013, 08:19 PM	#24
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Here's a couple shots of the one I bought in December. Yep it is loaded and ready to go to the wall, but it is non fired as of today. Was stored badly so has some pits on the exterior, but the chamber bores and the bbl bore is slcik as it was in 1962 when it was made. She's gonna be my shooter since the shabby storage for 50 years. BTW the safety pins on the cylinder and the hammer safety slot work as they should. 1962 Centaur 1860 NMA 3rd Model Cavalry, 3 digit S/N with an F(fluted?) prefix. Last edited by Old Dragoon; February 7, 2013 at 08:24 PM.

February 7, 2013, 10:38 PM	#25
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Thats's a beauty! I've always liked the fluted 1860's. Think those and the Pocket Police are the best looking of the Colts. The one on GB sold for $480, which I would say is about right. $500 is more or less what a really nice one ought to cost... even a good shooter is worth over $400 these days. Willie (The box-o-Centaures is arriving in a few days, sadly I am on the road and will not see them for nigh a month...)

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