Mini 14 experiment ..

[1stmar]

About a year ago I purchased a mini as an inexpensive shooter with resemblances to my garand or m1a. After attempting to work up some reloads, not surprisingly, my accuracy was unacceptable. I sent it ruger who replaced almost everything including the barrel. Though the photocopied target showed 3 shot groups of less than 1/2" at 50yds I have never been able to come close to that. The rifle was at best 3" 5 shot groups and 2 5 shot groups would never look the same. So a 10 shot group would probably be closer to 4-6". No pattern, no logic. Left,right, high, low. Just a mess. After all the reading I decided to try some tuning.

Everything I read was accustrut, thin barrel (heat) , trigger etc. I had the barrel shortened to try and take some whip out. Seem to help a bit but still nothing reliable. So I restocked it with a hogue overmold. Love the stock but no change. (Wasn't expecting it just wanted the composite stock). Still loving the rifle but disappointed, I sent it to greatwestgunsmithing (gun doc). He bedded it, gave it a trigger job, bushing and gas port adjustment. Btw he is out of business now. Shut down right after I got my rifle back. Go to the range- still lousy groups. Probably worse! Very frustrated and ready to throw the towel in.

Started to look at accuracy systems but hesitant to dump anymore money into. The other day I thought about my garands and how accurate they are. While thinking through what could be done it, it dawned on me. If I had (and I do) a garand that didn't shoot, I'd shim the trigger group. I do this with my oldest garand with a very old stock and it shoots great. Though I've never read anyone shimming the mini I thought I'd try it. Keep in mind I am using the hogue stock without the brass frame in the stock though I don't think it would materially matter.

I take some painter tape and wrap it around the feet of the trigger group. Though very difficult to lock the trigger group, it's seems effective. My first 3 shots are dead center less than an inch. It then throws one 2" high right. The 5th shot is back with the first 3. Second 5 shot group very similar results. Running out of time I quickly fire a 3rd group with mixed results but the group shows vertical dispersion of 2.5" and about an 1" of horizontal.

While not conclusive yet, I'm convinced I'm on the right path just may need some tweaking. I believe there are two issues. The last group was hurried and I think the barrel was heating up. The errand shots are high right. I believe the receiver is still moving in the stock. Either from it just settling into the stock or perhaps am imbalance in how the receiver is sitting.

I've seen threads about shimming garands but never minis. Maybe I missed them. Seems logical though. I do not leave my trigger groups locked when not in use. When I get time I will post note more results and pics. So far very encouraged. If I can eliminate or reduce the flyer in the group I'll be very pleased. Thought I'd pass it on and see if anyone else has tried this or had cause to try it.

[dogrunner]

Have a friend that had positive results with his mini with a home made bbl strut......cheap as hell & refused to buy one, but it worked.

[T. O'Heir]

Like Dave says. Think paragraphs.
"...photocopied target showed 3 shot groups of less than 1/2" at 50yds..." 50 yards is too close for a .223 rifle. No apparent mention of what ammo the used. And the Mini-14 is and always has been an over priced, inaccurate toy that Ruger has been able to sell every single one they've ever made with no fuss.
"...Left, right, high, low. Just a mess..." Is the bedding.
Cutting a thin, crappy, barrel does nothing but reduce velocity. Restocking it would require a bedding job. Still no guarantee of better accuracy.
Shimming the trigger group on an M1 does nothing for accuracy if the rest of it and the ammo isn't good too.

[1stmar]

The ammo used was fed red box 55 gr. was only referencing it because that's what they tested it with. Never said it was a valid test. I'll edit for easier reading. No argument the mini is inaccurate, that's the point. Why? A lot of info out there on how to accurize then but maybe it's more simple then all the gadgets.

[COSteve]

I'm new with the platform just recently getting a NIB 583 series wood stock Ranch Rifle with the thicker barrel as my first Mini. I've also got 2ea M1 Garands, 2ea M1 Carbines, and an M1A, a copy of my M14 Basic Training weapon an a real favorite of mine, so the general manual of arms of the Ranch Rifle is very familiar to me. Further, I handload for all my firearms including 2 ARs, one of which is a long range shooter.

Anyway, based upon what I read at Perfect Union and other sites before I got mine, I added the following to my Ranch Rifle right out of the box.

• Wilson 1911 Buffers - Front & Rear
• SOCOM Length Accu-Strut
• Mini200 Rear Sight
• Choat Handguard
• Polished Sears

After a thorough cleaning and the installation of the parts above, including the important step of torquing the gas block screws to 30 in/lbs and insuring that the gap between the top and bottom piece was the same on each side, I made it out to our range this afternoon and wrung out my new Ruger Ranch Rifle. All told I ran 88 rds of my 62grn lead core (non penetrator) 5.56 handloads through it. It operated as expected; no issues as 8 is my lucky number. The rifle felt good on the shoulder as it should being a scaled down version of my M1A. Sighting in at 50yds initially was uneventful as the Mini200 rear sight gave me a good sight picture and the smaller aperture helped me see the front sight and target more clearly.

Initial groups were 4-5” as I got used to it but after 10-15rds I settled down and the groups shrank down to the 2-3”. Now, with a whopping 20rds through it, I moved the target back to 100yds and bore down trying for small groups and checking zero. After some fine tuning with the windage and elevation, my groups settled in at 2” high (again where I want them for 200yd zero) and held at under 2½” which I consider as good as I can shoot with my 67yr old eyes.

The minor trigger stoning I did made for a decent trigger but it's still got a long second stage before it breaks so I'm considering a complete trigger workup when I have time. I also noted that it beats the brass up a bit and the op rod right in front of the charging lever took a few hits from flying brass as they came screaming out. Just with those 88rds I noticed that the action is smoothing out a bit and I expect it to get better as we go forward. Its no where near as smooth as my Springfield M1A's action is but I feel it will get better with time. Unsurprisingly, all five of my Ruger 20rd mags worked without issue so it feeds perfectly.

As expected from the posts I'd read, I was launching the brass into the next county and some I’m certain had a shot at a low earth orbit!! I shoot full power loads and the hike to retrieve my brass was quite a workout. I had considered investing in a smaller gas system bushing set and now I feel that it's a necessity.

As I assumed I would, I ordered a set of smaller aperture gas bushings from John at GWG (since retired) and put in the largest bushing of the three (.045"). I stopped by the range the next day and my Ruger now works like a charm throwing the brass only 10-12 ft from the bench. This is still a new rifle with just over 100rds through it; not even broken in yet. When it is, I've got 2 smaller aperture gas bushings to swap in so I'm good to go. Besides the much closer, tighter brass pile, I noticed a substantial reduction in the recoil as well as a significant reduction in damage to the brass. As I'm a handloader, I'm tickled that the brass is now in the same condition as it comes out of my ARs.

I was also pleasantly surprised to find that my testing at the 200yd range demonstrated that my Ruger is even more accurate now with the reduced gas bushings than before. I'm not saying that the Ruger is magically a tack driver, I'm saying that it's now about as accurate as my M1 Garand and more accurate than my M1 Carbine by a decent amount. I placed some bowling pins out on the berm behind the 200 yd target stands giving me a shooting distance right at 210yds. Off the bench the Ruger was knocking them about on every shot I didn't call as bad; just as well as my AR with iron sights does. This is a favorite pastime with me so I'm actually pretty good at it and I was tickled that the Ruger performed so well.

Later, after a few hundred more rounds, I let one of our younger (better eyes) CMP shooters who also has a Ranch Rifle and does well with it, give it a go and he was able to get 5rd, 1½-1¾" groups at 100yds with it. Remember, this is a iron sight rifle so I'm really pleased with it's accuracy now. I'm convinced that adding an Accu-Strut, Wilson 1911 rubber bushings, reducing the gas bushing size, and torquing the gas block can significantly help tighten up your groups as long as your action fits tight in the stock.

All in all, I'm just thrilled with my Ruger Ranch Rifle and glad I bought it. The look, the way it feels on the shoulder, the balance, and now the accuracy makes me smile. It's just a handy, fun rifle to shoot, reasonably accurate, and reliable so I'm happy as heck I got ite and look forward to taking it plinking often.

[samsmix]

Dear Grammar Nazis,

There are grammatical and or punctuation errors in your replies. Put another way, your own accuracy with written English is very Mini-14-like. If you must correct others, please make sure your own house is in order. Moses stuttered, but he had plenty to say for those who wished to hear. Do try to be a TFL ambassador...


That said,
The Mini has the pedigree to be accurate, but one can only miniaturize so far before barrel stiffness becomes an issue. Heavy barreled Minis tend to shoot better than pencil barrel models...usually. the trouble is the extra weight sorta isn't in the spirit of the theme.

I'm not sure why 1/2" @ 50 yards is too close for the .223. That equates to 1" a 100, 3" @ 300, and so on. This is acceptable even by AR and even most bolt gun standards. By comparison most AKs are 3-4" 100 yard guns. The vertical stringing you see most likely goes back to a thin barrel that is starting to heat up.

[jmr40]

Sams, it isn't about perfect grammar. The OP was a single paragraph, which you never saw, that made it almost unreadable. The OP edited his post and it is no longer an issue. Minor grammar and spelling errors are just part of it, we all do it. But some posts are downright hard to read or decipher. Those need to be corrected. You are about a 2 weeks late with your critique.

[samsmix]

It was partly an attempt at humor, but no I didn't realize I was basing my response on an edited version. I stand corrected.

[DaleA]

If I ever buy another mini, I hope someone beats me to death with it. God knows I'm safe from being shot by one.

Ha! I like it.

The mini-14 and to a lessor extent the 10/22 are kind of like listening to your kid play a musical instrument...you REALLY want to like it and you make excuses etc. I sometimes think Ruger has mind control figured out.

I've resisted getting a mini because of the accuracy issues even though I've kind of wanted one since I first saw one back in the mid 70's. The new ones they say are way more accurate but I just can't see buying one instead of an AR.

[COSteve]

Again, I've got 2 M1 Garands, 2 M1 Carbines, and an M1A and they are all decently accurate but none can hold a candle accuracy-wise to my ARs. My RRA A4 with a scope is my 400+ yd 'apple shooter'. Find me a standard scoped M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, or M1A that can do that. You can't so why is it that no one bad mouths them? Tweaked with good, precision ammo they won't do better than 1-1¼" groups without some serious upgrading to rear lugged receivers, NM parts, unitized gas systems, etc., in short the whole way to a match rifle but still, people don't bad mouth them.

Further, there are quite a few ARs out there that can't group worth snot, gritty triggers, poor sights, lose rails, sloppy uppers, etc., etc., but all anyone says is fix this, fix that and you've got a nice shooter. No one bad mouths them, rather they say, "it just needs a few upgrades."

So why the hate for the new style, thicker barreled minis when most people shooting them for poor groups are using junk Russkie ammo no one on the planet can make group for any amount of money in any platform. For those shooting decent ammo, all the new Minis need is "...a few upgrades" and a bit of time to make the quick mods (reduced gas bushing, align and torque gas block, Wilson 1911 buffers, Accu-Strut, bedded action if you want to go really nuts) and you can make it into a great (not fantastic but really good) shooter that's now on a par or slightly better accuracy wise with most rifles currently made.

Yes, you shouldn't have to spend the $$ to get it right and no, you shouldn't have to do further mods to get the Mini-30 to light hard Berdan primers reliably but you do. That's all true, but then you shouldn't have a mag capacity limit or bayo lug prohibition, etc., etc., etc. many of us are forced to live with but we do.

The fact is, once you get over your whining and do the simple fixes, you've got a reliable, handy, compact, fun shooter. I took mine out last Tuesday and ran 250 rds through it. It got hot but didn't vertically string and it got dirty but didn't jam. It fed without a single issue and shot as accurately as I can shoot it.

As an irons gun, it performed as well as my AR middy with irons out to slightly over 100yds at plinking targets (I don't shoot bullseye for fun as it's boring and I'm not good at it). Was it more fun than my AR middy in part because it takes a bit more care to shoot well? You bet!

OH, and you who think it's only good as a club. Come on out and sign your life away. At anything up to 300yds (likely farther) with my old eyes and my Ranch Rifle just as pictured above, you're dead meat. Not most, not many, but every time. I practice plinking at small, random targets at random ranges and I'm good at it. My Ranch Rifle performs as well as my iron sighted AR middys do. Medium size apple at 200 yds standing anyone?

[Homerboy]

I had a Mini once. I miss it. I have a Garand so I liked the action. I've had AR's too. Is the AR more accurate? Maybe. Does the dead target know any better? Nope. A .223 to the torso is gonna do you in. Doesn't matter if you were aiming 2 inches higher than where the round hit.

I think people have fantasies about having to take a head shot while somebody is holding a hostage. I remember stalking an empty 9MM box of ammo to the target and shredding it firing rapidly at 50 yards with my Mini using iron sights. That's good enough for me.

And every time j see a kid (I'm 44) show up with his AR I think he might as well be shooting blanks because he's just there to make noise.

[Kosh75287]

Well said, COSTEVE. With a few minor mods, the Mini-14 is a HELLUVA light rifle! Will it be a sub-M.O.A. tack-driver, like an ultra-tight AR is? No. But it'll take a marksman better than most who read this, to find the difference in precision. NOW, ask me which one will still shoot with a half-cup of dirt and sand in it.

Homerboy, if the concern about an out-of-the-box Mini-14's accuracy was where in the torso it will put a bullet, I'd likely not bother fiddling with it to make it shoot tighter. When it becomes a question of whether I'll hit somewhere in a human torso or the human's upper arm, it's time to try tightening things a bit.

Admittedly, an adversary with a .223 through their upper arm isn't in great shape, but I'm a BIG believer in Murphy's Law, especially when someone thinks I'm a worthwhile target. I'd rather not leave them in shape to entertain the notion of returning fire.

[Bamashooter]

My mini-14 is a 580 series with the skinny barrel. After a trigger job and a accustrut it shoots 5 shot groups at 1.5-2". Good enough for me. Its killed just about every small game and predator you can think of including deer. On top of accurate its light and reliable as hell and it looks good.

[Ignition Override]

Homerboy: Many people actually appear to believe that roving gangs from collapsed urban centers will definitely be driving miles to begin sniping at various suburban/rural homes from 100-300 yards away. It can't be denied that it is possible.

In general, too many re-runs of "Red Dawn" begin to seem plausible, or simply the fantastic directing and cleverly inventive scenarios of
"The Road Warrior" sinking into sub-consciousness? Maybe "I am Legend", with Will Smith and his AR in post-plague Manhattan