Who here fights ?

MTAA · December 21, 2000, 05:24 AM

Sorry guys, I'm getting tired of the "_____ scenario" threads. Time to check into some good ol' hand to hand.

I have a Muay Thai match coming up in February, just started up the road work...man it sucks during wintertime

. Oh well, gotta lose 15 lbs in the next 7 weeks. Anyone else here compete regularly ?

Matt VDW · December 21, 2000, 11:55 AM

I don't compete, but I'm curious.

What's involved? Do you have classifications based on skill and/or weight, or are the fights "open"? Do you wear any protective padding? How long do the fights last? Are they usually decided by points, or by one fighter being punched/kicked into submission?

Thumper · December 21, 2000, 03:19 PM

If you're ever out Ga way, Jose Castro's Dojo in Athens offers the most realistic training I've seen. You'll definetely know you were there. Protection is at the participants discretion. I recommend at least a mouthpiece. It's about 90% speed. Nobody's trying to kill anybody, and if you're not experienced, things slow down even more. Muay thai afficianados have actually fared pretty well in this type of training, as long as they have some experience fighting on the floor. A few things I've learned:
1.)Don't spar with a Gracie, even after he's fought seven other people.
2.)Size DOES matter, but strength and technique can prevail.
3.)Don't carry a handgun in condition 3-Cycling a slide will not be an option.
4.)Avoid a fight until you can't anymore, then POUNCE!
5.)Have good health insurance.

Good luck in your next match.

MTAA · December 21, 2000, 07:42 PM

Matt VDW, to answer your questions :

--- "Do you have classifications based on skill and/or weight, or are the fights "open"?"

Depends on the venue. This fight is a local club fight, which is a warmup for serious competitve amateurs and a way to break in new fighters. Experience is definitely considered when matching up opponents, and we use the same weight classification of amateur boxing sans cruiserweight.

---"Do you wear any protective padding"

Yep, shin guards, gloves (16 ouncers for me), and headgear. This is more of a nuisance than it is a benefit. When a fighter steps up to semipro or sanctioned amateur fights, we ditch the head gear and shin guards.

---"How long do the fights last? Are they usually decided by points, or by one fighter being punched/kicked into submission?"

Fights last three rounds, three minutes each. Fights are decided just like in pro boxing, an opponent wins by a KO, TKO, or judges decision. Since these are only three round fights, most end up in decision.

falconer · December 21, 2000, 10:50 PM

I do, but only when I can't avoid it or if a friend/relative needs protected. I don't see much point to tournaments. I've watched way too many to believe that most of those people wouldn't get themselves killed on the street.

iso1 · December 22, 2000, 10:08 AM

I've attended a few classes, Tae Kwon Do (sp), Kung Fu, some others.....never liked the look of it.

So, I've been looking into a few alternative styles.

One that interests me is SCARS. Basic principle, don't worry about what your opponent MIGHT do to you...Focus on what you ARE going to do to him!

I like that idea.

LASur5r · December 22, 2000, 11:17 AM

Hi guys,
I don't know your age, but I'm 52 now...had been in the fight game without pads since 1960 (jiu-jitsu and golden gloves), went to tournament karate for a long time...one word of advice? Use the pads...royal pain to use, but I walk a little gimpy legged now from all the kicks I blocked with my shins. No big deal when I was your age...now
...maybe, should have learned a different way to block those kicks.
Actually worse is my hip from taking all those falls in judo and jiujitsu.
Anyway, I always wondered what all those years of letting your body take the punishment from fighting would do...just finding out now.

Spectre · December 22, 2000, 02:01 PM

Use your jing.

Did you typically breakfall, or roll out of those throws?

LASur5r · January 27, 2001, 10:11 PM

Spectre,
Being originally from the old aiki jitsu, we rolled out of a throw when possible. Then I got into soCal judo which was a lot more tournament then self-defense.
Eventually I started teaching (for some 20 years) and doing basics over and over has impacted the hips a lot.
A few years back, though, I was being stupid as usual and I went on the top step of the ladder while pruning a tree. I fell, my leg got locked into the ladder and I did a complete fall with a 6 foot step ladder, I broke fall typical judo style, at the same time I reacted jiujitsu style and threw the ladder over me.
My wife fell on the ground laughing as I lay there assessing whether or not I had damaged anything.....just my pride...just my pride.

jadams951 · January 28, 2001, 07:45 AM

Don't fight but I've got a mean ASP baton, cannister of pepper spray, and if those fail an H & K USP 40, S & W Model 642, and a Remington 870 12 guage at work with me!!!!!!!

TaxPhd · January 28, 2001, 12:59 PM

Thumper,

Have you got contact info. for Jose Castro's?

fadingbreed · January 28, 2001, 07:44 PM

I use to compete and teach before I became disabled. Now I fight pain, boredom, my kids (sort of) and whatever. At the young age of 41, I envy you who compete. I think we all have taken our physical abilities for granted at times. Now for self defense I am honing my marksmanship skills. In all probability, I will never need to do this but practicing sure is a release. Sorry, I know this reply isn't exactly relative to the original question, but just had to get it out. Man, I feel better!

krept · January 30, 2001, 12:59 PM

Hey MTAA...

First off, good luck in your upcoming match!

I don't compete, but do occasionally spar with some guys that do fight in cage fights out here in Az. We usually do about 75% speed striking (western boxing and Thai) but do very limited elbows/knees to the head (save them for the pads). Grappling for position and submission is usually 90%, about 70% speed on takedowns (don't want to pull a muscle in shoots and don't want to be seriously hurt in a fall)... usually no slams.

On a side note, I'm not sure if you know who Gilbert Yvel is, but I saw him on ESPN cornering for a guy that won a Thai match two nights ago. I've got a couple of NHB matches with him and man, he is a wrecking machine.

Another BTW... I have heard that California is coming close to legalizing mixed martial arts competitions... amazing. I have heard from many that the ones on the reservations down off of I-8 are very good.

handgun357 · February 10, 2001, 10:43 PM

I wrestled from 4th grade through 9th grade.
I boxed in junior high and high school, then in the navy tried kickboxing.
When I got out, I got into kung-fu very heavy.
Strictly combat, no competition.
I enjoyed it very much and ended up teaching for about 8 years after I got my 3rd degree black sash.
I later got my 4th degree.
Then came kids and that was it. All is on hold.
My boy is 6 now and is getting interested.
When he asks, and is serious, then here I go again.......
If at all posible, expose a kid to martial arts of any kind.
It is good for the mind, body, and spirit.
Have A Good Day All...........

fadingbreed · February 11, 2001, 09:19 AM

Hey Handgun357 - You are absolutely right about the benefits of exposing kids to the martial arts. It has been the best thing in the world for my two sons. I have exposed my two sons to Judo, Okinawan Kempo Karate and TKD. They have excelled in both real self defense and competition - they know the difference between combat training and tournament stuff. But most importantly, it has developed them not only physically but the mind and spirit as well. They are really good teenagers who are, for the most part, disciplined, confident and mature. I started them out when they were six years old. My oldest, 15 years old, whose background in Judo brought hell to both his Middle School and High School wrestling mat. When your son is ready to study, you are in for a treat but I don't have to tell you that. Take care.

LASur5r · February 11, 2001, 07:56 PM

Well you guys know then, "Dad's got bragging rights"

My daughter is 14 now and she has been in some serious fights against either a bigger opponent or more than one four times now. So far no "marks" on her. I was worried that she could develop into a bully if she knew too much, but each time she had to defend herself, I feel it was justifiable...I have made her go back to apologize to some of the folks that picked on her, but they don't want to "mess" with her anymore. She had to apologize because of some of the "blows" she used were kind of heavy.
I haven't taught her too many "techniques" but I do wrestle with her a lot. I have thrown in elements of jiujitsu,JKD, and some real close in gung-fu stuff. Her legs are strong, and she has a good sense of balance.
Another proud moment was when I took her to the shooting range on her 12th birthday...she did good and now she is my shooting buddy.

One of my co-workers had his daughter picked on by the local "bullies" of the school. About 5 real brave ones...they wanted the new girl's lunch money in high school, so they said if she didn't pay up then she had to take a beating in the school restroom. They lead her in the restroom...she learned a few techniques of Escrima from her dad so she knew that her best chance was to take out the person in front of her, who happened to be the leader, then stand off the rest in the doorway because only one or two can come at her at one time.
The minute the ringleader went into the restroom, the daughter grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head against the sink counter top. Then she took the girl off the rebound and hip threw on to the floor. Administering several kicks to the head and body, she stood in the doorway to see that the rest of the bullies had run away.
She was called into the principal's office, the gangleader was taken to the hospital (concussion and various bruises)...the school threatened to kick her out even when they found out the real situation.
My friend threatened to sue the school and the principal when they found out this gang had been allowed to "run" their little ring for two years. His daughter has a big group of friends (read other people extorted by the gang).

Dad's get bragging rights, right?

fadingbreed · February 11, 2001, 08:12 PM

Outstanding!!!

krept · February 12, 2001, 12:38 AM

yes, great story... I love hearing when martial arts helps the good guys (especially the gals) defend themselves... the way they were ment to.

riddleofsteel · February 12, 2001, 08:17 PM

i would tend to disagree with the statement that tournament fighters do not do well in the street. most of the guys i know that "fight" in a full contact ring and myself are tough nuts to crack in real life. how else do you propose to hone these skills? the only other way i know is to pick or finish fights in the street and that is one part butt whipping (yours) and one part butt kicking (thiers) and one good chance of meeting a real bad ass that will kill you or cripple you for fun. full speed, full contact fighting in a controlled enviroment combined with sessions of no holes barred grappling is a sure way to identify your strengths and weaknesses. as i get older i tend to rely more on weapons and tactical common sense to keep from fighting. but if the flag goes up i will strike to cripple of kill with or without weapons with practice born of decades of punishing opponents in the ring and having my own ass wipped by those with superior skills.

SamH · February 13, 2001, 06:59 PM

Riddleofsteel,

I partly agree and disagree with your opinion.
Some full-contact tournaments impose rules that are unrealistic in a street situation. For example, the 'no-below-the-belt' rule in Tae Kwon Do is certainly not going to apply in a real life situation. Therefore, full-contact TKD sees little use of techniques aimed below the waist - and therefore presents very limited realism. On the other hand, there is boxing and Muay Thai, where almost anything is permissible - and therefore better fits street fighting scenarios.

Semi-contact training is for technique. The idea is to use enough force to jar your training partner when they make mistakes, without seriously injuring them.

Full-contact training is for polishing up - where trainees can identify what works for them, and what doesn't work.

Thumper · February 13, 2001, 07:04 PM

I think there are probably exceptions to every rule. We've all known individuals with no training who were hell in a real fight.

That having been said, I think it's obvious that those who receive some realistic training do better on the street. If nothing else, the sight of my oft-broken nose should serve as a warning that I can at least take a punch. Actually, come to think of it, it's probably more of an indication of inefficient blocking skills on my part. I'm going to have to think about that one.

fadingbreed · February 13, 2001, 07:29 PM

Hey Thumper, We use to call those "face blocks". Had my share. Take Care.

handgun357 · February 13, 2001, 07:36 PM

I used to lead with my chin in my first year of boxing.
Then I discovered that blocking and dodging worked, with less healing. Just because you "CAN" take it doesn't mean you "Should" take it.
Happy Blocking...................

krept · February 13, 2001, 10:03 PM

I think the kind of competitions he's talking about are the limited-rules mixed martial arts competitions like the UFC, IFC, pitfights, etc. where only biting, eyegouges and groin shots are "outlawed." I say that in quotes because not everything is picked up by the ref and places like Brazil tend to be a little bit more liberal on the rules if you can believe it.

I have tapes of fights where people are bitten, eyegouged and hit in the stones and some do come back and win the fight. Others do not. The point is, they are very aware and are frequently exposed to techniques that people think they will "sneak" into a fight when in combat with mixed martial artists. Aside from exclusive combat arenas like TKD rules events, point fighting in Karate, forms in Kung Fu, etc. the days of the single style martial artist dominating limited-rules competitions are on their way out.

This is absolutely no way a slam on traditional martial arts , especially the mental and spiritual faculties that they serve to develop. But in streetfights, I do pity the person that underestimates the hybrid fighter, or those that crosstrain in solid striking and grappling arts.

Everything is possible in a fight, but crosstraining definately opens many eyes and minds and evens the odds. Thai fighters use grappling positions to augment their striking if taken to the ground by a wrestler. A judoka uses boxing jabs and thai kicks to keep an opponent at a proper distance until he commits to an attack whereas the judoka can utilize this momentum to throw instead of attempting a sacrifice throw on the sidewalk.

The scary thing is that, just like gangbangers are learning what ammunition is the most effective, they are also learning mixed martial arts. A gang around Phoenix was recently known to have used Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tactics to beat up on kids... no longer the sloppy beatdown, but a slow, methodical one that bolsters their egos and end up doing much more psychological and physical damage to their victims.

I guess I'm rambling at this point, but I do feel that if you are considering learning martial arts or getting your kids into MAs, give serious thought to crosstraining. Fortunately, thugs rarely have the heart and persistance to take such training to the next level.

SamH · February 13, 2001, 11:42 PM

Excellent, Krept!

The value of cross-training is undoubtable.

When choosing martial arts, I've always been told to 'shop around'. Try this style and that, see what fits best for you. Every person is different, both physically and mentally. The agressive, hard-hitting types may prefer fighting sports like Muay Thai and Boxing; the more analytical types may prefer traditional martial arts. Some people need to learn to defend themselves in a short period of time - self defence courses have been developed for those people.

IMHO, a genuine martial artist must be open-minded. Otherwise s/he will only see fighting from the perspective of his or her style. If someone who is used to fighting only wrestlers suddenly confronts an Aikido exponent, he may as well be defeated due to his ignorance of how Aikido works. An experienced Judoka who has never been exposed to boxing may lose a fight against a boxer, because the two styles are so much different. True understanding of martial arts and fighting can only be achieved by diligent practice and exposure to and respect for other styles and fighters.

Ok, I've ranted too long...

But the point is, one must keep his or her mind open, in order to better understand how to deal with dangerous confrontations. A full-contact fighter must respect the capabilities of semi or non-contact stylists - and vice versa.

December 21, 2000, 03:19 PM	#3
Thumper Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2000 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 1,507	Hello If you're ever out Ga way, Jose Castro's Dojo in Athens offers the most realistic training I've seen. You'll definetely know you were there. Protection is at the participants discretion. I recommend at least a mouthpiece. It's about 90% speed. Nobody's trying to kill anybody, and if you're not experienced, things slow down even more. Muay thai afficianados have actually fared pretty well in this type of training, as long as they have some experience fighting on the floor. A few things I've learned: 1.)Don't spar with a Gracie, even after he's fought seven other people. 2.)Size DOES matter, but strength and technique can prevail. 3.)Don't carry a handgun in condition 3-Cycling a slide will not be an option. 4.)Avoid a fight until you can't anymore, then POUNCE! 5.)Have good health insurance. Good luck in your next match.

December 22, 2000, 11:17 AM	#7
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Fights Hi guys, I don't know your age, but I'm 52 now...had been in the fight game without pads since 1960 (jiu-jitsu and golden gloves), went to tournament karate for a long time...one word of advice? Use the pads...royal pain to use, but I walk a little gimpy legged now from all the kicks I blocked with my shins. No big deal when I was your age...now ...maybe, should have learned a different way to block those kicks. Actually worse is my hip from taking all those falls in judo and jiujitsu. Anyway, I always wondered what all those years of letting your body take the punishment from fighting would do...just finding out now.

January 27, 2001, 10:11 PM	#9
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Falls Spectre, Being originally from the old aiki jitsu, we rolled out of a throw when possible. Then I got into soCal judo which was a lot more tournament then self-defense. Eventually I started teaching (for some 20 years) and doing basics over and over has impacted the hips a lot. A few years back, though, I was being stupid as usual and I went on the top step of the ladder while pruning a tree. I fell, my leg got locked into the ladder and I did a complete fall with a 6 foot step ladder, I broke fall typical judo style, at the same time I reacted jiujitsu style and threw the ladder over me. My wife fell on the ground laughing as I lay there assessing whether or not I had damaged anything.....just my pride...just my pride.

January 28, 2001, 12:59 PM	#11
TaxPhd Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 534	Thumper, Have you got contact info. for Jose Castro's? __________________ TaxPhd "Those who live by the sword are probably pretty f***ing good at it." "Instructions for a successful gunfight: Front Sight, Press Trigger, repeat as necessary." - B. Braxton

February 10, 2001, 10:43 PM	#14
handgun357 Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2001 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 293	I wrestled from 4th grade through 9th grade. I boxed in junior high and high school, then in the navy tried kickboxing. When I got out, I got into kung-fu very heavy. Strictly combat, no competition. I enjoyed it very much and ended up teaching for about 8 years after I got my 3rd degree black sash. I later got my 4th degree. Then came kids and that was it. All is on hold. My boy is 6 now and is getting interested. When he asks, and is serious, then here I go again....... If at all posible, expose a kid to martial arts of any kind. It is good for the mind, body, and spirit. Have A Good Day All........... __________________ Always identify your target before you shoot. NRA Member

December 21, 2000, 05:24 AM	#1
MTAA Junior member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: CA Posts: 447	Sorry guys, I'm getting tired of the "_____ scenario" threads. Time to check into some good ol' hand to hand. I have a Muay Thai match coming up in February, just started up the road work...man it sucks during wintertime . Oh well, gotta lose 15 lbs in the next 7 weeks. Anyone else here compete regularly ?

December 21, 2000, 11:55 AM	#2
Matt VDW Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 1999 Posts: 1,315	I don't compete, but I'm curious. What's involved? Do you have classifications based on skill and/or weight, or are the fights "open"? Do you wear any protective padding? How long do the fights last? Are they usually decided by points, or by one fighter being punched/kicked into submission?

December 21, 2000, 07:42 PM	#4
MTAA Junior member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: CA Posts: 447	Matt VDW, to answer your questions : --- "Do you have classifications based on skill and/or weight, or are the fights "open"?" Depends on the venue. This fight is a local club fight, which is a warmup for serious competitve amateurs and a way to break in new fighters. Experience is definitely considered when matching up opponents, and we use the same weight classification of amateur boxing sans cruiserweight. ---"Do you wear any protective padding" Yep, shin guards, gloves (16 ouncers for me), and headgear. This is more of a nuisance than it is a benefit. When a fighter steps up to semipro or sanctioned amateur fights, we ditch the head gear and shin guards. ---"How long do the fights last? Are they usually decided by points, or by one fighter being punched/kicked into submission?" Fights last three rounds, three minutes each. Fights are decided just like in pro boxing, an opponent wins by a KO, TKO, or judges decision. Since these are only three round fights, most end up in decision.

December 21, 2000, 10:50 PM	#5
falconer Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: somewhere Posts: 546	I do, but only when I can't avoid it or if a friend/relative needs protected. I don't see much point to tournaments. I've watched way too many to believe that most of those people wouldn't get themselves killed on the street.

December 22, 2000, 10:08 AM	#6
iso1 Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2000 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 573	I've attended a few classes, Tae Kwon Do (sp), Kung Fu, some others.....never liked the look of it. So, I've been looking into a few alternative styles. One that interests me is SCARS. Basic principle, don't worry about what your opponent MIGHT do to you...Focus on what you ARE going to do to him! I like that idea.

December 22, 2000, 02:01 PM	#8
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Use your jing. Did you typically breakfall, or roll out of those throws?

January 28, 2001, 07:45 AM	#10
jadams951 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: Houston, Texas USA Posts: 295	Don't fight but I've got a mean ASP baton, cannister of pepper spray, and if those fail an H & K USP 40, S & W Model 642, and a Remington 870 12 guage at work with me!!!!!!!

January 28, 2001, 07:44 PM	#12
fadingbreed Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 92	I use to compete and teach before I became disabled. Now I fight pain, boredom, my kids (sort of) and whatever. At the young age of 41, I envy you who compete. I think we all have taken our physical abilities for granted at times. Now for self defense I am honing my marksmanship skills. In all probability, I will never need to do this but practicing sure is a release. Sorry, I know this reply isn't exactly relative to the original question, but just had to get it out. Man, I feel better!

January 30, 2001, 12:59 PM	#13
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Hey MTAA... First off, good luck in your upcoming match! I don't compete, but do occasionally spar with some guys that do fight in cage fights out here in Az. We usually do about 75% speed striking (western boxing and Thai) but do very limited elbows/knees to the head (save them for the pads). Grappling for position and submission is usually 90%, about 70% speed on takedowns (don't want to pull a muscle in shoots and don't want to be seriously hurt in a fall)... usually no slams. On a side note, I'm not sure if you know who Gilbert Yvel is, but I saw him on ESPN cornering for a guy that won a Thai match two nights ago. I've got a couple of NHB matches with him and man, he is a wrecking machine. Another BTW... I have heard that California is coming close to legalizing mixed martial arts competitions... amazing. I have heard from many that the ones on the reservations down off of I-8 are very good.

February 11, 2001, 09:19 AM	#15
fadingbreed Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 92	Hey Handgun357 - You are absolutely right about the benefits of exposing kids to the martial arts. It has been the best thing in the world for my two sons. I have exposed my two sons to Judo, Okinawan Kempo Karate and TKD. They have excelled in both real self defense and competition - they know the difference between combat training and tournament stuff. But most importantly, it has developed them not only physically but the mind and spirit as well. They are really good teenagers who are, for the most part, disciplined, confident and mature. I started them out when they were six years old. My oldest, 15 years old, whose background in Judo brought hell to both his Middle School and High School wrestling mat. When your son is ready to study, you are in for a treat but I don't have to tell you that. Take care. __________________ The only constant thing in life is change itself.

February 11, 2001, 07:56 PM	#16
LASur5r Junior member Join Date: July 20, 2000 Location: pasadena,california,America Posts: 542	Fights Well you guys know then, "Dad's got bragging rights" My daughter is 14 now and she has been in some serious fights against either a bigger opponent or more than one four times now. So far no "marks" on her. I was worried that she could develop into a bully if she knew too much, but each time she had to defend herself, I feel it was justifiable...I have made her go back to apologize to some of the folks that picked on her, but they don't want to "mess" with her anymore. She had to apologize because of some of the "blows" she used were kind of heavy. I haven't taught her too many "techniques" but I do wrestle with her a lot. I have thrown in elements of jiujitsu,JKD, and some real close in gung-fu stuff. Her legs are strong, and she has a good sense of balance. Another proud moment was when I took her to the shooting range on her 12th birthday...she did good and now she is my shooting buddy. One of my co-workers had his daughter picked on by the local "bullies" of the school. About 5 real brave ones...they wanted the new girl's lunch money in high school, so they said if she didn't pay up then she had to take a beating in the school restroom. They lead her in the restroom...she learned a few techniques of Escrima from her dad so she knew that her best chance was to take out the person in front of her, who happened to be the leader, then stand off the rest in the doorway because only one or two can come at her at one time. The minute the ringleader went into the restroom, the daughter grabbed her by the hair and slammed her head against the sink counter top. Then she took the girl off the rebound and hip threw on to the floor. Administering several kicks to the head and body, she stood in the doorway to see that the rest of the bullies had run away. She was called into the principal's office, the gangleader was taken to the hospital (concussion and various bruises)...the school threatened to kick her out even when they found out the real situation. My friend threatened to sue the school and the principal when they found out this gang had been allowed to "run" their little ring for two years. His daughter has a big group of friends (read other people extorted by the gang). Dad's get bragging rights, right?

February 11, 2001, 08:12 PM	#17
fadingbreed Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 92	Outstanding!!!

February 12, 2001, 12:38 AM	#18
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	yes, great story... I love hearing when martial arts helps the good guys (especially the gals) defend themselves... the way they were ment to.

February 12, 2001, 08:17 PM	#19
riddleofsteel Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2000 Location: above ground Posts: 1,558	i would tend to disagree with the statement that tournament fighters do not do well in the street. most of the guys i know that "fight" in a full contact ring and myself are tough nuts to crack in real life. how else do you propose to hone these skills? the only other way i know is to pick or finish fights in the street and that is one part butt whipping (yours) and one part butt kicking (thiers) and one good chance of meeting a real bad ass that will kill you or cripple you for fun. full speed, full contact fighting in a controlled enviroment combined with sessions of no holes barred grappling is a sure way to identify your strengths and weaknesses. as i get older i tend to rely more on weapons and tactical common sense to keep from fighting. but if the flag goes up i will strike to cripple of kill with or without weapons with practice born of decades of punishing opponents in the ring and having my own ass wipped by those with superior skills. __________________ For him there was always the discipline of steel.

February 13, 2001, 06:59 PM	#20
SamH Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2001 Location: Down Under Posts: 108	Riddleofsteel, I partly agree and disagree with your opinion. Some full-contact tournaments impose rules that are unrealistic in a street situation. For example, the 'no-below-the-belt' rule in Tae Kwon Do is certainly not going to apply in a real life situation. Therefore, full-contact TKD sees little use of techniques aimed below the waist - and therefore presents very limited realism. On the other hand, there is boxing and Muay Thai, where almost anything is permissible - and therefore better fits street fighting scenarios. Semi-contact training is for technique. The idea is to use enough force to jar your training partner when they make mistakes, without seriously injuring them. Full-contact training is for polishing up - where trainees can identify what works for them, and what doesn't work.

February 13, 2001, 07:04 PM	#21
Thumper Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2000 Location: Sugar Land, Tx Posts: 1,507	I think there are probably exceptions to every rule. We've all known individuals with no training who were hell in a real fight. That having been said, I think it's obvious that those who receive some realistic training do better on the street. If nothing else, the sight of my oft-broken nose should serve as a warning that I can at least take a punch. Actually, come to think of it, it's probably more of an indication of inefficient blocking skills on my part. I'm going to have to think about that one.

February 13, 2001, 07:29 PM	#22
fadingbreed Member Join Date: January 16, 2001 Location: Virginia Posts: 92	Hey Thumper, We use to call those "face blocks". Had my share. Take Care. __________________ The only constant thing in life is change itself.

February 13, 2001, 07:36 PM	#23
handgun357 Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2001 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 293	I used to lead with my chin in my first year of boxing. Then I discovered that blocking and dodging worked, with less healing. Just because you "CAN" take it doesn't mean you "Should" take it. Happy Blocking................... __________________ Always identify your target before you shoot. NRA Member

February 13, 2001, 10:03 PM	#24
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	I think the kind of competitions he's talking about are the limited-rules mixed martial arts competitions like the UFC, IFC, pitfights, etc. where only biting, eyegouges and groin shots are "outlawed." I say that in quotes because not everything is picked up by the ref and places like Brazil tend to be a little bit more liberal on the rules if you can believe it. I have tapes of fights where people are bitten, eyegouged and hit in the stones and some do come back and win the fight. Others do not. The point is, they are very aware and are frequently exposed to techniques that people think they will "sneak" into a fight when in combat with mixed martial artists. Aside from exclusive combat arenas like TKD rules events, point fighting in Karate, forms in Kung Fu, etc. the days of the single style martial artist dominating limited-rules competitions are on their way out. This is absolutely no way a slam on traditional martial arts , especially the mental and spiritual faculties that they serve to develop. But in streetfights, I do pity the person that underestimates the hybrid fighter, or those that crosstrain in solid striking and grappling arts. Everything is possible in a fight, but crosstraining definately opens many eyes and minds and evens the odds. Thai fighters use grappling positions to augment their striking if taken to the ground by a wrestler. A judoka uses boxing jabs and thai kicks to keep an opponent at a proper distance until he commits to an attack whereas the judoka can utilize this momentum to throw instead of attempting a sacrifice throw on the sidewalk. The scary thing is that, just like gangbangers are learning what ammunition is the most effective, they are also learning mixed martial arts. A gang around Phoenix was recently known to have used Brazilian Jiu Jitsu tactics to beat up on kids... no longer the sloppy beatdown, but a slow, methodical one that bolsters their egos and end up doing much more psychological and physical damage to their victims. I guess I'm rambling at this point, but I do feel that if you are considering learning martial arts or getting your kids into MAs, give serious thought to crosstraining. Fortunately, thugs rarely have the heart and persistance to take such training to the next level.

February 13, 2001, 11:42 PM	#25
SamH Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2001 Location: Down Under Posts: 108	Excellent, Krept! The value of cross-training is undoubtable. When choosing martial arts, I've always been told to 'shop around'. Try this style and that, see what fits best for you. Every person is different, both physically and mentally. The agressive, hard-hitting types may prefer fighting sports like Muay Thai and Boxing; the more analytical types may prefer traditional martial arts. Some people need to learn to defend themselves in a short period of time - self defence courses have been developed for those people. IMHO, a genuine martial artist must be open-minded. Otherwise s/he will only see fighting from the perspective of his or her style. If someone who is used to fighting only wrestlers suddenly confronts an Aikido exponent, he may as well be defeated due to his ignorance of how Aikido works. An experienced Judoka who has never been exposed to boxing may lose a fight against a boxer, because the two styles are so much different. True understanding of martial arts and fighting can only be achieved by diligent practice and exposure to and respect for other styles and fighters. Ok, I've ranted too long... But the point is, one must keep his or her mind open, in order to better understand how to deal with dangerous confrontations. A full-contact fighter must respect the capabilities of semi or non-contact stylists - and vice versa.