.308 Accuracy Loads w/165gr

browninghunter86 · January 11, 2012, 01:27 PM

Just curious of what your accuracy loads are for .308 rifles using 165 gr bullet

Pictures of groups would be cool also

grubbylabs · January 11, 2012, 04:42 PM

IMR 4064 and Varget seem to work really well with 4064 performing just a little better for me.

boostedtt91 · January 11, 2012, 05:13 PM

no real way to answer that, its gonna vary rifle to rifle. Need more information like what your shooting it out of, what kind of bullets your using and so on...

browninghunter86 · January 11, 2012, 07:34 PM

I was just trying to get other people's load performance just out of curiosity but I am shooting Hornady 165gr SST/Interlock out of a Savage 10FXP 1:10" twist and believe it is a 22" barrel

dacaur · January 12, 2012, 01:26 AM

I havent been to the range in a while so no targets that I can find, but I shoot 165gr SST's. CCI large rifle primers, remington brass, 43.8gr of varget will give me sub moa every time, and the occasional 1/2" group... this is just rested on my shooting gear bag, no vice or anything cool like that....

Poodleshooter · January 12, 2012, 05:51 PM

42.5gr of military pulldown 4895, using a CCI LR primer and Federal, Remington, or Winchester brass usually produces a good load in my rifle. I originally tested this load for 168gr Speer BTHPs, but found that it also worked very well for other bullets. This charge weight has a wide sweet spot in my rifle.

I highly recommend using Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight method to develop your own load.

browninghunter86 · January 12, 2012, 07:45 PM

I just loaded Interlock BTSP 165gr using that method. Had some issues with my Lee Scale and my digital Frankford Arsenal scale batteries ran low so was inconsistant so had to get new batteries. Could not get LEE scale to stay zero or give accurate readings.

dacaur · January 12, 2012, 08:12 PM

The trick to the lee scale is to put the beam on the base the exact same way every time. I will take it and put it on, then move it all the way to one side, and then back untill its in the right spot... its harder to explain then to do... Look closly at the underside of the beam and the slot where it fits in the base, Its basicaly a blade the fits down into a slot, and if you're not careful on how you do it, you can get it in different each time, and get inconsistent readings. Once you figure it out, its very accurate, I trust it more than my digital frankford arsenal scale, which I got just as a backup to verify the lee scale. I thought it as off since it showed the powder drops from my auto disk as much lower than the chart said they were, but of course I have since learned that the drops from the auto disk are ALWAYS lower than the chart says they are

shoptroll · January 12, 2012, 09:16 PM

46 grains of H380, 165 grain Sierra Game King Hollowpoints, CCI primers, and Lake City match military brass.

browninghunter86 · January 12, 2012, 09:52 PM

dacaur:do you take the beam off to set the weight you are trying to get out of the load or leave it on the base while adjusting it? I will take it off and look for the slot like you were talking about and maybe this will help me use it. When it was on the other week, my FA digital scale was exactly on according to the Lee Scale. Do you find your FA to be accurate?

farmerboy · January 12, 2012, 10:36 PM

Same gun here with Varget @ 46.0 and Hornady 165 grain SSTs but that's with MY gun not Yours!

dacaur · January 12, 2012, 11:26 PM

Yea I take the beam off the base to adjust. Any time my lee beam scale acts wonky I know the end is probably touching the magnet. just reposition so its not touching and its good again. On mine, the end is really close to the "front" magnet so if its not on just right it touches, but I can get it on good the first try 9 times out of 10...

I'm not sure about the FA scale yet... If I calibrate it it works and matches the lee scale, but a few times its started to go off track, and I have had to calibrate it again, but its like 45F in my basement where I am loading so i wonder if the cold is affecting it or something...

I dont entirely trust it yet, I still like to verify things with my beam scale before loading, but I use it to adjust my perfect powder measure for load development and switching between calibers, makes it much easier to know how far off I am on the load I am trying to drop.... I've only used it a few times though....

browninghunter86 · January 12, 2012, 11:51 PM

dacaur: when you say adjust it to not hit magnet how do you do this? or is that fixed when you put it on straight where it balances on that small slit on the base? I went out and saw what you were talking about and checked and seemed to be working better.... FA says 50 degrees up to 90 I believe in the instructions maybe that may be making it off sometimes

dacaur · January 12, 2012, 11:58 PM

yea, just reposition it so the end isnt touching the magnet. it seems it can go into the slit slightly crookid, and when it does it skims the magnet slightly and messes things up, I just wiggle it a little in the base so its not touching anymore...

ricehombre · January 13, 2012, 12:01 AM

165 gr NBT over 45gr RL15
168 berger over 44.8 RL15
Both do 1/4 MOA

browninghunter86 · January 13, 2012, 12:54 AM

goin out tom to try new loads using RL 15 and new bullets(Interlock BTSP vs SSTs). Suppose to be windy so will see how it goes though. Used OCW load development

browninghunter86 · January 14, 2012, 06:06 PM

New powder and bullet. Still not under MOA @100yrds

dacaur · January 14, 2012, 08:19 PM

Are the weights written on the target all you are using? If so, they are way too far apart, IMO. When I developed my .308 load for hunting, I loaded 5 rounds each in .2gr increments. If I did it again I would do 3 round groups rather than 5, and I would start about midway in the powder range rather than at the min load, I went through a lot of bullets, and found a LOT of loads didn't work well. Its amazing how just little bits of powder can make such a big difference. Some weights gave groups as much as 2.5 inches! The difference between 43.6 and 43.8 was dramatic for being only .2grains.... 43.6 gave about 1.5" groups, and 43.8 gives sub moa every time. You could just be passing right over the sweet spot.....

Right now I am developing a load for my uncles .300 savage with a different method, where you load 1 round each in .5gr increments from min to max and shoot them all at one target, starting from low to high they will track up the target as the powder increases, and at some point several rounds will all be in the same vertical axis, and thats where you start load development. We did that part a couple weeks ago, and based on that I am loading 3 rounds each of 38.8, 39, 39.2, 39.4 and 39.6gr, and hopefully one of those will be the cats meow in his dad's old gun....

browninghunter86 · January 14, 2012, 11:26 PM

yes. well I did this way based on numerous suggestions on Dan Newberry's load development http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/? I am new to this so tried a new method for this batch. Any suggestions on better way would be nice. out of those groups I believe 42.9 shot the best

So the method you just mentioned at some point the different loads will start hitting the same spot vertically at the target and then you use those loads to work up? I planned on loading 42.7,42.8,42.9,43.0,43.1,and 43.2 tom to see

mrawesome22 · January 15, 2012, 12:21 AM

Browning... Varget, RL15, and 4064 all have almost identical burn rates.

Try some IMR4064 or something with a similar burn rate.

And ya gotta be certain that copper is being kept at a resonable level and that you are using good shooting techniques.

QL is predicting IMR4064 should be a great powder for this combo.
Nice velocity and a slightly compressed load to take powder position out of the equation.

RL15 is showing 44,468psi, 2585fps and 92.2% case fill at 42.9gr.

IDK what your book max is on the RL15, but it looks like it could go much higher.

QL says even at 47gr you are still within safe pressure limits.

So, up that charge of RL15, and if that don't work, get some IMR4064

Can I ask why you are staying so low on the powder charge?

browninghunter86 · January 15, 2012, 01:02 AM

just started working up on RL-15 and new to reloading so started about 10%below max. books are stating 44.3-44.5 is MAX fot this bullet.

Poodleshooter · January 16, 2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

yes. well I did this way based on numerous suggestions on Dan Newberry's load development http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/? I am new to this so tried a new method for this batch. Any suggestions on better way would be nice. out of those groups I believe 42.9 shot the best

So the method you just mentioned at some point the different loads will start hitting the same spot vertically at the target and then you use those loads to work up? I planned on loading 42.7,42.8,42.9,43.0,43.1,and 43.2 tom to see

In Newberry's method, you charges should be no more than .2-.3 grains apart. Your loads on that photo were much farther apart, which defeats the purpose.
Use a narrower range of powder weights, and shoot with .3gr apart. Round robin the groups, shooting 1 of 1 charge weight, then 1 of the next charge weight, and then back to the starting charge weight.
You're looking for where there's a large sweet spot, not necessarily for the best group. 42.9 is the best group, but it would make for a bad load if 42.8gr and 43gr loads go to completely different locations. You want a spot where at least 3 charge weights worth of groups shoot very close to the same POI. Then load the middle charge. That should give you the most "stable" powder charge.

browninghunter86 · January 16, 2012, 03:01 PM

well his method states start 7-10% below max(which in manuals is 44.5gr). And I understand not looking for best group but consistant POI. So starting below that states load 1 bullet@2% above that, then another @2%, then another at 2% to have sighters and check for pressure. Then for the loads of 3 bullets it states go (.7-1% above then keep going up in those increments from previous load).

So that should look like this if my math is correct(using 1%increase in load):
[email protected],41.3,42,1
[email protected],42.9,43.3,43.7,44.1,44.5,44.9

using .7%:
[email protected],41.3,42,1
[email protected],42.7,42.9,43.2,43.5,43.8,44.1,44.4,44.7

at 1% looks like increase of .4gr and at .7% it is .3gr increase

So would I do the .7% or just go up .2gr each load and work up?

dacaur · January 16, 2012, 10:45 PM

Hmmm.... I checked that dan newberry link for the first time.... seems like a lot of BS to me.... it talks about creating a universal "starting" load that will shoot well in all rifles... well, if thats the case, then why not just develop the load once and tell us the recipe?

If we each need to follow the description and develop the "OCW" load on our own, then that would suggest that "all rifles are different" after all, which it seems he is trying to disprove in the first place....... Just My $0.02.

It also seems strikingly similar to the method I described above where you load a bunch in .5 grain increments, shoot them all at a single target, and look for the 1.5-2 grain range where they all group at about the same vertical axis, which would be the OCW range, according the the link, then you fine tune from there.... seems like his method does the same thing, just with a lot more bullets wasted finding that optimal range....

browninghunter86 · January 16, 2012, 11:19 PM

dacaur: I think I responded to your method but can't remember. You just shoot one round and look for same POI then how do you fine tune from there?

January 11, 2012, 01:27 PM	#1
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	.308 Accuracy Loads w/165gr Just curious of what your accuracy loads are for .308 rifles using 165 gr bullet Pictures of groups would be cool also

January 11, 2012, 04:42 PM	#2
grubbylabs Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2009 Location: Hansen Idaho Posts: 1,465	IMR 4064 and Varget seem to work really well with 4064 performing just a little better for me. __________________ * (Swinging club) Whack! whack! whack! * Nope, the old nag's still dead . (Capt Charlie) Last edited by grubbylabs; January 11, 2012 at 05:33 PM.

January 12, 2012, 09:16 PM	#9
shoptroll Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Elizabethtown, Pa Posts: 60	46 grains of H380, 165 grain Sierra Game King Hollowpoints, CCI primers, and Lake City match military brass. Last edited by shoptroll; January 14, 2012 at 09:14 PM.

January 15, 2012, 12:21 AM	#20
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Browning... Varget, RL15, and 4064 all have almost identical burn rates. Try some IMR4064 or something with a similar burn rate. And ya gotta be certain that copper is being kept at a resonable level and that you are using good shooting techniques. QL is predicting IMR4064 should be a great powder for this combo. Nice velocity and a slightly compressed load to take powder position out of the equation. RL15 is showing 44,468psi, 2585fps and 92.2% case fill at 42.9gr. IDK what your book max is on the RL15, but it looks like it could go much higher. QL says even at 47gr you are still within safe pressure limits. So, up that charge of RL15, and if that don't work, get some IMR4064 Can I ask why you are staying so low on the powder charge? Last edited by mrawesome22; January 15, 2012 at 12:41 AM.

January 16, 2012, 03:01 PM	#23
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	well his method states start 7-10% below max(which in manuals is 44.5gr). And I understand not looking for best group but consistant POI. So starting below that states load 1 bullet@2% above that, then another @2%, then another at 2% to have sighters and check for pressure. Then for the loads of 3 bullets it states go (.7-1% above then keep going up in those increments from previous load). So that should look like this if my math is correct(using 1%increase in load): [email protected],41.3,42,1 [email protected],42.9,43.3,43.7,44.1,44.5,44.9 using .7%: [email protected],41.3,42,1 [email protected],42.7,42.9,43.2,43.5,43.8,44.1,44.4,44.7 at 1% looks like increase of .4gr and at .7% it is .3gr increase So would I do the .7% or just go up .2gr each load and work up? Last edited by browninghunter86; January 16, 2012 at 03:06 PM.

January 11, 2012, 05:13 PM	#3
boostedtt91 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Danville, Pa Posts: 520	no real way to answer that, its gonna vary rifle to rifle. Need more information like what your shooting it out of, what kind of bullets your using and so on...

January 11, 2012, 07:34 PM	#4
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	I was just trying to get other people's load performance just out of curiosity but I am shooting Hornady 165gr SST/Interlock out of a Savage 10FXP 1:10" twist and believe it is a 22" barrel

January 12, 2012, 01:26 AM	#5
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	I havent been to the range in a while so no targets that I can find, but I shoot 165gr SST's. CCI large rifle primers, remington brass, 43.8gr of varget will give me sub moa every time, and the occasional 1/2" group... this is just rested on my shooting gear bag, no vice or anything cool like that....

January 12, 2012, 05:51 PM	#6
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	42.5gr of military pulldown 4895, using a CCI LR primer and Federal, Remington, or Winchester brass usually produces a good load in my rifle. I originally tested this load for 168gr Speer BTHPs, but found that it also worked very well for other bullets. This charge weight has a wide sweet spot in my rifle. I highly recommend using Dan Newberry's Optimal Charge Weight method to develop your own load.

January 12, 2012, 07:45 PM	#7
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	I just loaded Interlock BTSP 165gr using that method. Had some issues with my Lee Scale and my digital Frankford Arsenal scale batteries ran low so was inconsistant so had to get new batteries. Could not get LEE scale to stay zero or give accurate readings.

January 12, 2012, 08:12 PM	#8
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	The trick to the lee scale is to put the beam on the base the exact same way every time. I will take it and put it on, then move it all the way to one side, and then back untill its in the right spot... its harder to explain then to do... Look closly at the underside of the beam and the slot where it fits in the base, Its basicaly a blade the fits down into a slot, and if you're not careful on how you do it, you can get it in different each time, and get inconsistent readings. Once you figure it out, its very accurate, I trust it more than my digital frankford arsenal scale, which I got just as a backup to verify the lee scale. I thought it as off since it showed the powder drops from my auto disk as much lower than the chart said they were, but of course I have since learned that the drops from the auto disk are ALWAYS lower than the chart says they are

January 12, 2012, 09:52 PM	#10
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	dacaur:do you take the beam off to set the weight you are trying to get out of the load or leave it on the base while adjusting it? I will take it off and look for the slot like you were talking about and maybe this will help me use it. When it was on the other week, my FA digital scale was exactly on according to the Lee Scale. Do you find your FA to be accurate?

January 12, 2012, 10:36 PM	#11
farmerboy Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 1,343	Same gun here with Varget @ 46.0 and Hornady 165 grain SSTs but that's with MY gun not Yours!

January 12, 2012, 11:26 PM	#12
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Yea I take the beam off the base to adjust. Any time my lee beam scale acts wonky I know the end is probably touching the magnet. just reposition so its not touching and its good again. On mine, the end is really close to the "front" magnet so if its not on just right it touches, but I can get it on good the first try 9 times out of 10... I'm not sure about the FA scale yet... If I calibrate it it works and matches the lee scale, but a few times its started to go off track, and I have had to calibrate it again, but its like 45F in my basement where I am loading so i wonder if the cold is affecting it or something... I dont entirely trust it yet, I still like to verify things with my beam scale before loading, but I use it to adjust my perfect powder measure for load development and switching between calibers, makes it much easier to know how far off I am on the load I am trying to drop.... I've only used it a few times though....

January 12, 2012, 11:51 PM	#13
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	dacaur: when you say adjust it to not hit magnet how do you do this? or is that fixed when you put it on straight where it balances on that small slit on the base? I went out and saw what you were talking about and checked and seemed to be working better.... FA says 50 degrees up to 90 I believe in the instructions maybe that may be making it off sometimes

January 12, 2012, 11:58 PM	#14
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	yea, just reposition it so the end isnt touching the magnet. it seems it can go into the slit slightly crookid, and when it does it skims the magnet slightly and messes things up, I just wiggle it a little in the base so its not touching anymore...

January 13, 2012, 12:01 AM	#15
ricehombre Member Join Date: December 27, 2004 Posts: 22	165 gr NBT over 45gr RL15 168 berger over 44.8 RL15 Both do 1/4 MOA

January 13, 2012, 12:54 AM	#16
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	goin out tom to try new loads using RL 15 and new bullets(Interlock BTSP vs SSTs). Suppose to be windy so will see how it goes though. Used OCW load development

January 14, 2012, 08:19 PM	#18
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Are the weights written on the target all you are using? If so, they are way too far apart, IMO. When I developed my .308 load for hunting, I loaded 5 rounds each in .2gr increments. If I did it again I would do 3 round groups rather than 5, and I would start about midway in the powder range rather than at the min load, I went through a lot of bullets, and found a LOT of loads didn't work well. Its amazing how just little bits of powder can make such a big difference. Some weights gave groups as much as 2.5 inches! The difference between 43.6 and 43.8 was dramatic for being only .2grains.... 43.6 gave about 1.5" groups, and 43.8 gives sub moa every time. You could just be passing right over the sweet spot..... Right now I am developing a load for my uncles .300 savage with a different method, where you load 1 round each in .5gr increments from min to max and shoot them all at one target, starting from low to high they will track up the target as the powder increases, and at some point several rounds will all be in the same vertical axis, and thats where you start load development. We did that part a couple weeks ago, and based on that I am loading 3 rounds each of 38.8, 39, 39.2, 39.4 and 39.6gr, and hopefully one of those will be the cats meow in his dad's old gun....

January 14, 2012, 11:26 PM	#19
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	yes. well I did this way based on numerous suggestions on Dan Newberry's load development http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/? I am new to this so tried a new method for this batch. Any suggestions on better way would be nice. out of those groups I believe 42.9 shot the best So the method you just mentioned at some point the different loads will start hitting the same spot vertically at the target and then you use those loads to work up? I planned on loading 42.7,42.8,42.9,43.0,43.1,and 43.2 tom to see

January 15, 2012, 01:02 AM	#21
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	just started working up on RL-15 and new to reloading so started about 10%below max. books are stating 44.3-44.5 is MAX fot this bullet.

January 16, 2012, 10:45 PM	#24
dacaur Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Posts: 733	Hmmm.... I checked that dan newberry link for the first time.... seems like a lot of BS to me.... it talks about creating a universal "starting" load that will shoot well in all rifles... well, if thats the case, then why not just develop the load once and tell us the recipe? If we each need to follow the description and develop the "OCW" load on our own, then that would suggest that "all rifles are different" after all, which it seems he is trying to disprove in the first place....... Just My $0.02. It also seems strikingly similar to the method I described above where you load a bunch in .5 grain increments, shoot them all at a single target, and look for the 1.5-2 grain range where they all group at about the same vertical axis, which would be the OCW range, according the the link, then you fine tune from there.... seems like his method does the same thing, just with a lot more bullets wasted finding that optimal range....

January 16, 2012, 11:19 PM	#25
browninghunter86 Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Posts: 524	dacaur: I think I responded to your method but can't remember. You just shoot one round and look for same POI then how do you fine tune from there?

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