Knife-wielding suspect vs. 5 armed officers - Page 3

Nordeste · May 14, 2011, 06:51 PM

I would watch the video, but it requires a Youtube account that I don't have. Tried registering but I found out (and actually pis*ed me off) that Youtube wanted to know my phone number and I don't wanna give that information to them. Enough that they would have my e-mail. Since I'm a native spanish speaker, guess I could give a hand with the dialogues.

Although our training standards are (I bet) quite higher in my country that in central america, I remember my instructors at the Academy telling us about the "seven meters (21 ft) rule", knifes and firears. And that no matters whether you are Steven Seagal or not, a blade moves quickly and if you fail at grabbing and inmovilizing the hand that holds it (assuming you wear proper anti-cut gloves) or you will surely get cut and/or stabbed.

Sad thing is that, for us over here, you may get a bad guy as close as one meter to you, you may be lying on the floor as a result of having slipped and fallen down during the chase, you produce two 9mm shots and hit the chest of the BG, who succumbs to the wounds. My friend still had to prove his innocence in Court, since those shots had not been aimed to "non vital parts of the body" as our regulations state.

That's why, yes, how happy I would be having those prosecutors and judges sent to our academy, or to the worst neighbourhoods in Sevilla and Madrid, and let them taste the tension of facing a knife and the dilemma of choosing between your life, and your career, job, and freedom

An old spanish cops' saying states something like "Better have your family bringing you cigarettes to prison, rather than flowers to your grave".

2damnold4this · May 14, 2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

My friend still had to prove his innocence in Court, since those shots had not been aimed to "non vital parts of the body" as our regulations state.

What?! Do your regulations expect you to target an assailant's arms when faced with a lethal threat?

DRBoyle · May 14, 2011, 09:51 PM

This video seemed all too familiar to another. Might have been the same country, but the perp was slender and wearing a white shirt. In that debacle,
he managed to strike an officer once. Every stab was a fatality. With all the officers his physical build gave him that advantage (god didn't create all men equal, browning did?) with the knife up close. You also hear the gun fire when the police realize all too late what they should do.

Of all the things in world police are criticized over, shooting knife wielding men that demonstrate they will attack, is something you have to give police the benefit of the doubt for doing. If only the powers that be would extend the same to civilians.

Kodyo · May 15, 2011, 02:21 AM

Quote:

I would watch the video, but it requires a Youtube account that I don't have.

NON YOUTUBE LINK:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=271_1291673920

I know a few can't get it running due to youtube, here is a copy of the video on another site.

Nordeste · May 15, 2011, 01:36 PM

Thanks, Kodyo. The sound is poor. At the beginning looks like he's asking for his wife and the journalist tells him something like "she says you wanna kill her". Then one of the cops says "you're not going to solve anything like this (with this attitude)" and it's when he stabs the first officer. The way the subject is approached is wrong, I agree, but I dare to say that the way they approach the subject has to do with the fact that it looks like it's someone known to the officers. They treat familiarly.

Personally, I wouldn't have ever approached someone armed with a knife without having drawn my gun firstly, regardless of any kind of familiarity.

@2damnold4this: Yes, it's that bad. We are expected to shoot to non-vital parts of the body, and actually get in trouble when an offender dies in a shoot-out. Usually, the case is looked upon with a huge magnifiying glass in Court. In most cases, even if the offender uses adeadly weapon like a firearm, knife, katana or similar, officers are released from charges, but you still have to prove in court that you couldn't have acted in a different manner.

The concept of "use of lethal force" is not contemplated. It's contemplated the "use of firearms", but as the biggest oxymoron possible on earth, officers are expected to be able to shoot, under tension and in a life-threatening situation, to the BG's ankles and still, stop them with a 9mm. "Protection of life" seems to be the reason, but under this <cursed> regulations, an Officer's life appears to be less valuable than an offender's one.

Explanations to this?. The need to "democratize" a police force that was a repression instrument during Franco's dictatorship, and with the advent of democracy during late 70's-early 80's. Shame is that no politician appears to realize how different the police forces are nowadays from those of the old days, and how different a kind of criminality we have in the present day.

We'll regret from this. We are already doing but there's the worst to follow with the ex-East block mafias. I honestly envy your regulations. They protect the innocent and bring adequate support to law enforcers. I say this because I've done my bit of peacekeeping and have worked with americans officers too.

Bubba in c.a. · May 20, 2011, 08:15 PM

I too couldn't get thru Utube's stupidity.
I had my step daughter watch it with me to pick up on the Spanish better. She's said the reporter asked what he was up to and he said he wanted to kill his wife. she also said this is an old tape as she saw it on the news a couple years ago. It took place in Juigalpa, capitol of Chontales, a region know for cattle raising. If you ever get the chance, they have a great little archeological museum and a so-so zoo, and one of the nicest public parks in the country (Parque Palo Solo).
No going to restate all the above good posts, but it seems that the police are under extreme pressure not to kill anyone. It also dawned on me that the police weapons may not have been loaded. Not exactly the type thing I'm going to ask a cop on the street, but someday at a social event I'll ask these type of questions after I have been properly introduced. (If you think people don't go around with unloaded weapons, you have never been in the US Army!).
Nicaragua does not have the death penalty, largely as a knee-jerk reaction to the murders committed by the old Somoza dictatorship 30 years ago. This is not likely to change in the near future because there is also a major distrust of the court system.
Broadcast said 1 officer killed, and 2 wounded. It didn't say anything about the perp, so he probably survived his wounds.

dabo · May 28, 2011, 02:33 AM

I think as soon as he took a step towards an officer, they should have opened fire on him big time. JMHO...

May 14, 2011, 09:51 PM	#53
DRBoyle Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2010 Posts: 124	This video seemed all too familiar to another. Might have been the same country, but the perp was slender and wearing a white shirt. In that debacle, he managed to strike an officer once. Every stab was a fatality. With all the officers his physical build gave him that advantage (god didn't create all men equal, browning did?) with the knife up close. You also hear the gun fire when the police realize all too late what they should do. Of all the things in world police are criticized over, shooting knife wielding men that demonstrate they will attack, is something you have to give police the benefit of the doubt for doing. If only the powers that be would extend the same to civilians. Last edited by DRBoyle; May 15, 2011 at 02:32 AM.

May 15, 2011, 01:36 PM	#55
Nordeste Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2011 Location: Asturias, Spain Posts: 328	Thanks, Kodyo. The sound is poor. At the beginning looks like he's asking for his wife and the journalist tells him something like "she says you wanna kill her". Then one of the cops says "you're not going to solve anything like this (with this attitude)" and it's when he stabs the first officer. The way the subject is approached is wrong, I agree, but I dare to say that the way they approach the subject has to do with the fact that it looks like it's someone known to the officers. They treat familiarly. Personally, I wouldn't have ever approached someone armed with a knife without having drawn my gun firstly, regardless of any kind of familiarity. @2damnold4this: Yes, it's that bad. We are expected to shoot to non-vital parts of the body, and actually get in trouble when an offender dies in a shoot-out. Usually, the case is looked upon with a huge magnifiying glass in Court. In most cases, even if the offender uses adeadly weapon like a firearm, knife, katana or similar, officers are released from charges, but you still have to prove in court that you couldn't have acted in a different manner. The concept of "use of lethal force" is not contemplated. It's contemplated the "use of firearms", but as the biggest oxymoron possible on earth, officers are expected to be able to shoot, under tension and in a life-threatening situation, to the BG's ankles and still, stop them with a 9mm. "Protection of life" seems to be the reason, but under this <cursed> regulations, an Officer's life appears to be less valuable than an offender's one. Explanations to this?. The need to "democratize" a police force that was a repression instrument during Franco's dictatorship, and with the advent of democracy during late 70's-early 80's. Shame is that no politician appears to realize how different the police forces are nowadays from those of the old days, and how different a kind of criminality we have in the present day. We'll regret from this. We are already doing but there's the worst to follow with the ex-East block mafias. I honestly envy your regulations. They protect the innocent and bring adequate support to law enforcers. I say this because I've done my bit of peacekeeping and have worked with americans officers too. Last edited by JohnKSa; May 15, 2011 at 04:01 PM. Reason: Terminology adustment.

May 20, 2011, 08:15 PM	#56
Bubba in c.a. Member Join Date: April 18, 2011 Posts: 49	thanx, Kodyo I too couldn't get thru Utube's stupidity. I had my step daughter watch it with me to pick up on the Spanish better. She's said the reporter asked what he was up to and he said he wanted to kill his wife. she also said this is an old tape as she saw it on the news a couple years ago. It took place in Juigalpa, capitol of Chontales, a region know for cattle raising. If you ever get the chance, they have a great little archeological museum and a so-so zoo, and one of the nicest public parks in the country (Parque Palo Solo). No going to restate all the above good posts, but it seems that the police are under extreme pressure not to kill anyone. It also dawned on me that the police weapons may not have been loaded. Not exactly the type thing I'm going to ask a cop on the street, but someday at a social event I'll ask these type of questions after I have been properly introduced. (If you think people don't go around with unloaded weapons, you have never been in the US Army!). Nicaragua does not have the death penalty, largely as a knee-jerk reaction to the murders committed by the old Somoza dictatorship 30 years ago. This is not likely to change in the near future because there is also a major distrust of the court system. Broadcast said 1 officer killed, and 2 wounded. It didn't say anything about the perp, so he probably survived his wounds.

May 14, 2011, 06:51 PM	#51
Nordeste Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2011 Location: Asturias, Spain Posts: 328	I would watch the video, but it requires a Youtube account that I don't have. Tried registering but I found out (and actually pis*ed me off) that Youtube wanted to know my phone number and I don't wanna give that information to them. Enough that they would have my e-mail. Since I'm a native spanish speaker, guess I could give a hand with the dialogues. Although our training standards are (I bet) quite higher in my country that in central america, I remember my instructors at the Academy telling us about the "seven meters (21 ft) rule", knifes and firears. And that no matters whether you are Steven Seagal or not, a blade moves quickly and if you fail at grabbing and inmovilizing the hand that holds it (assuming you wear proper anti-cut gloves) or you will surely get cut and/or stabbed. Sad thing is that, for us over here, you may get a bad guy as close as one meter to you, you may be lying on the floor as a result of having slipped and fallen down during the chase, you produce two 9mm shots and hit the chest of the BG, who succumbs to the wounds. My friend still had to prove his innocence in Court, since those shots had not been aimed to "non vital parts of the body" as our regulations state. That's why, yes, how happy I would be having those prosecutors and judges sent to our academy, or to the worst neighbourhoods in Sevilla and Madrid, and let them taste the tension of facing a knife and the dilemma of choosing between your life, and your career, job, and freedom An old spanish cops' saying states something like "Better have your family bringing you cigarettes to prison, rather than flowers to your grave".

May 28, 2011, 02:33 AM	#57
dabo Member Join Date: March 23, 2011 Posts: 16	I think as soon as he took a step towards an officer, they should have opened fire on him big time. JMHO...