S&W M&P'S with / without Manuel safety ?

[number 9]

I have owned a M&P 9mm for several years and reliability couldn't have been better. That being said one in my circle has recently bought one and for whatever reason just doesn't like it and has offered to sell it to me at a reasonable price.


Only drawback is this model has a safety lever and mine has a trigger type safety. So the question is can the safety lever type be converted to a trigger safety type?

[overhead]

The one with an external safety also includes the trigger safety (trigger block deal). The external safety can be removed, I took the one off of my M&P 45c.

[number 9]

What would be required to convert the safety lever type to trigger only type?

[overhead]

I am not an expert on the process, I just removed mine. Being it is a safety on a firearm and I am not a gunsmith I don't feel comfortable walking anyone through the process. I used instructions I found on the internet after doing a search. I assume you could do the same. Not trying to be a jerk, I just don't want to tell you something that is incorrect.

[number 9]

No problem I totally understand. I do appreciate your post as well. I will do some digging and gather the info. Mainly I wanted to know it could be safely done. Thanks

[6.8]

I have a couple with safeties as well. IIRC after the safety is removed S&W or someone has a small polymer block that fits neatly into the small void left in the frame after the safety is removed. Please Post and let us Know what you find. Good Luck

[chris in va]

Or, you could simply not use it. Won't make a difference either way.

[overhead]

I thought the same thing when I bought my gun. I figured I just wouldn't use it. The problem is, for me anyway, I found that from time to time I would accidentally knock the safety up when I did not mean to. Not a big deal on a range gun, but I carry mine some and the last thing I want is to flick up a safety in a stressful situation. I could train to keep my thumb on the safety, but it just seemed easier to remove it.

[danez71]

Go to http://www.burwellguns.com/misc/M&Ptriggerjob.pdf

Slide 7 and 8 shows the sear housing coming out. Its at that point the thumb safety will basically fall off.

[TunnelRat]

Or, you could simply not use it. Won't make a difference either way.

I always recommend against this. If a firearm has a safety, incorporate it into your use of the weapon. Murphy's Law loves to bite people in the butt when they least expect it.

[number 9]

Thanks for the posts but the guy crawfished on the deal. Sometimes peanuts sometimes shells.

[KyJim]

I always recommend against this. If a firearm has a safety, incorporate it into your use of the weapon. Murphy's Law loves to bite people in the butt when they least expect it.

So, for a CZ 75B, you would recommend carrying cocked and locked, rather than hammer down and double action first shot? My SW 3913 is SA/DA and has a safety/decocker. Am I not supposed to carry it hammer down with safety off like all the police did when they were carrying third gen Smiths? It seems to me that sometimes it's entirely appropriate to ignore the safety on a gun.

[TunnelRat]

It seems to me that sometimes it's entirely appropriate to ignore the safety on a gun.

You're free to do whatever you want, it's a free country

I actually got rid of my S&W 908 for that reason. For a DA/SA pistol I prefer just a decocker. That's why when I look at CZs I look at the decocker only models.

Let's also keep in mind we're not talking about any of those weapons. We're talking about a S&W M&P that is available in versions with and without a safety. If you don't want the safety, just have it converted by a S&W armorer or gunsmith. I bet if you called S&W they'd do it for you.

[c.j.]

I know it doesn't apply since you didn't end up getting it, but in case anyone else is wondering...the M&P line (9mm/.45/.40/.357sig) safeties are easily removed, and S&W sells and sometimes will just send out) some plugs that fit. It's a little tricky to get everything lined up right and in order (at least it was for me), but not too difficult, doesn't really require a gunsmith, and cheap. I ended up getting a 9mm that had a safety, and did the job in a few minutes.

The M&P .22 and Shields are a whole different design though, so this doesn't apply.

[Gaerek]

I know the OP isn't getting the gun, but if this is a carry or SD gun, I'd be very careful about removing any safety device, whether there's a version without a safety or not. In the unlikely event that you are in a situation where you had to use the gun to defend yourself, an unscrupulous DA could paint you as reckless because you removed the gun's safety device.

In the end, what you do to your gun is what you do. But you'll find most experts recommend against modifying a safety device of any kind on any weapon. They'll just say if you don't want a safety, find a gun that doesn't have one from the factory.

[TunnelRat]

In the end, what you do to your gun is what you do. But you'll find most experts recommend against modifying a safety device of any kind on any weapon. They'll just say if you don't want a safety, find a gun that doesn't have one from the factory.

Or just sent it to S&W and have them do it

[ShelbyV8]

It is a second safety and not needed. It is for people with no confidence like wearing a belt and suspenders.

[Lonewulff]

Having owned an m&p both with and without a manual safety, I prefer it without. And I checked on the feasibility of removing the manual safety as well. The manual safety is in addition to the internal safeties of the weapon. So it's basically a "plus 1 to safety" as Shelby
posted.

[ScotchMan]

I know the OP isn't getting the gun, but if this is a carry or SD gun, I'd be very careful about removing any safety device, whether there's a version without a safety or not. In the unlikely event that you are in a situation where you had to use the gun to defend yourself, an unscrupulous DA could paint you as reckless because you removed the gun's safety device.

In the end, what you do to your gun is what you do. But you'll find most experts recommend against modifying a safety device of any kind on any weapon. They'll just say if you don't want a safety, find a gun that doesn't have one from the factory.

Beat me to it. I was going to post this exact thing. Nothing wrong with having it removed, but I'd much prefer to have some paperwork from S&W about a "variant conversion" or some such than just my testimony in court.

[danez71]

It is a second safety and not needed. It is for people with no confidence like wearing a belt and suspenders.

Right. Just like a seat bealt and an airbag.

[David White]

The trigger on the M&P line of guns is comparable to the Glock trigger.
They are both considered "Safe Action" triggers.
Fingers must be placed on the trigger for the gun to go bang.
Some models of the M&P line have an external safety that functions like the safety on the 1911 style guns.
If it is up, the weapon is on safe.
If it is down, the weapon is ready to fire.
Smith and Wesson had to add the external safety per request from some LE departments who wanted that extra step before the weapon could be discharged.
Treat all M&P handguns as you would a Glock and things will be just fine!

[Gaerek]

Right. Just like a seat bealt and an airbag.

Bad analogy is bad.

With a gun, as long as you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to intentionally fire, you will never have a negligent discharge. A manual safety is unneeded. If it makes you feel safer, so be it, but it doesn't actually make the gun safer.

With a car, even if you're the best driver in the world, you still have to worry about all the other drivers. Because of this, seatbelts and airbags actually do make a car safer.

Your analogy would work if the safety on your gun could keep you from getting shot unintentionally by someone else with their gun. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and why your analogy doesn't work.

[danez71]

With a gun, as long as you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to intentionally fire, you will never have a negligent discharge. A manual safety is unneeded. If it makes you feel safer, so be it, but it doesn't actually make the gun safer.

Yep... and if you keep the key out of the ignition, you'll never have a negligent accident driving your car.

With a car, even if you're the best driver in the world, you still have to worry about all the other drivers. Because of this, seatbelts and airbags actually do make a car safer.

What about solo car accidents? Seat belts and air bads dont help then?

Your analogy would work if the safety on your gun could keep you from getting shot unintentionally by someone else with their gun. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and why your analogy doesn't work.

Uhhh.... you apparently have never heard of solo car accidents and thats why your analogy fails.

[TunnelRat]

you apparently have never heard of solo car accidents

I think you mean negligence.

[Gaerek]

No offense man danez, but I think my post went over your head.

With a gun, your gun, the gun you carry, as long as you keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready, able, and willing to fire, you will never have a negligent discharge. A negligent discharge would be equivalent to a "solo car accident." A safety on a gun has one purpose, to prevent YOU from doing something stupid. Follow that one simple rule and you will never have a "solo accident" with your gun, whether you have a safety or not (and it's a very easy rule to follow).

Now, let's talk about cars. Let's say the equivalent of "keeping your finger off the trigger" in a car is following all the safety laws (speed limit, stop lights, etc), staying within your lane, not tailgating, and paying attention to your surroundings. If you follow all of this, can you still get into an accident? Well, assuming all of those things will prevent you from being the cause of the accident (and let's just assume for a minute that they do), the answer is still yes, you can get into an accident. How? Because there are other drivers on the road. They are as much, if not more, of a danger to you, than you are. Again, using the analogy, "keeping your finger off the trigger" of your car, you can still get hurt. The seat belt and airbag will keep you from getting hurt, even if you are the most perfect driver in the world.

This is why your analogy fails. A mechanical safety prevents YOU from doing something stupid. An airbag and seatbelt help to keep you safe in case someone else does something stupid (and of course, in case you do something stupid too). By the way, if you're looking for something that's more analogous in the gun world to a seat belt or airbag, body armor is closer, since it will help prevent you from getting hurt AFTER something happens...just like a seatbelt or airbag. A seatbelt and airbag cannot prevent an accident. The only thing that can prevent an accident, is safe driving, or not driving at all. Funny, the only thing that can prevent an "accident" with a gun is "safe handling" (read: booger hook off bang switch) or "not handling." A safety is not a guarantee. There's nothing really in a car that's close to analogous to a mechanical safety on a gun. The closest I think would be the ignition. (Gun won't fire without safety off, car won't start without key in the ignition.)

In addition, driving a car is FAR more complicated than firing a gun. You lose your attention for half a second in a car, and it can be disastrous. There is so much going on when you're driving, and so many rules you have to be mindful of. When handling a firearm, there's at most 4 rules that you need to be mindful of, and they are easy to remember, and easy to follow.

If you feel you need a safety, that's fine, but it does not make the gun any safer. It still has the ability to injure, maim, kill. You forget to activate, or deactivate, as the case may be, the safety, and it could be one of the last things you (or the person in front of your muzzle) do. It's another thing you have to remember, and be mindful of. My Glock has no safety, and I'm well aware of that fact. I also know if I follow the 4 rules all the time, (google Coopers rules of safe firearms handling if you don't know what I'm speaking of) I will never have a "solo accident."

And to close, I'm going to be done with this thread. If you wish to continue, please PM me instead. I'd rather discuss it there, past this, than have the possibility of the thread being locked due to bickering.