Is this key holing?

mattL46 · December 14, 2014, 04:21 PM

Load is a 38 Special. Extreme plated bullets. 158gn. RNFP 4.8 gn unique. COAL of 1.400 very light crimp very light flare. Gun in a new to me 2.5" S&W M66. I shoot this same load out of my 4" M65 and have never seen holes like this. First time I've used these targets as well. Although when I first purchased the 66 I shot several cylinders and no elongated holes like this. ????? Edited to say it was about 25' away and windy. Also the gun has excellent rifling and upon inspection of bore no build up. Have first target which is same brand and lot with nice clean holes.

g.willikers · December 14, 2014, 04:36 PM

Yes, or the target was at an angle to the path of the bullets.
Or something else, since it was the same gun and ammo that didn't key hole on a previous target.

TMD · December 14, 2014, 04:37 PM

Looks more like tears in the target from not having a solid backing. If it was keyholing the holes in the target would be shaped like the side profile of the bullet and your pistol bullets don't have a rifle bullet profile.

andyjr11 · December 14, 2014, 04:42 PM

Does not look like keyholeing to me. The holes in the target are round and the tears are because there was no backing of the target, like cardboard.

g.willikers · December 14, 2014, 04:42 PM

Yes, ^^^
Try it again with the targets stapled or taped to decent cardboard and see what happens.
Make sure they are square to the path of the bullets, too.

mattL46 · December 14, 2014, 04:44 PM

OK thanks guys. I had to ask because I wasn't convinced. The little goofy target stand I got can be rotated a bit by the wind. I believe that is what's going on. Not to mention once I take the targets outside they want to kind of roll up. So I think its a combination of not being square to the target and no backing. Thanks folks.

Barnacle Brad · December 14, 2014, 04:45 PM

Ditto on the backer...

mattL46 · December 14, 2014, 04:49 PM

Y'all are the best. Tis' why I hang here...

WIL TERRY · December 14, 2014, 04:56 PM

NOT keyholing. IT does look to me like that sharp elongated cuts are by the plating being cut by the rifling, coming loose and sticking out, and cutting the target.

Armed_Chicagoan · December 14, 2014, 05:15 PM

Not just because there's no backing on the target, but also because of low velocity the bullet tears the target instead of cutting through it. There will be quite a velocity difference between a 4" and a 2.5" barrel.

chris in va · December 14, 2014, 05:18 PM

I had keyholing when first starting to reload my lead bullets through my CZ. Like others said it looks exactly like the bullet went in sideways, like a cylinder.

Example...

mattL46 · December 14, 2014, 05:48 PM

Yep definitely not key holing for me. Like others have said combo of target issues. And the velocity makes sense as well.

Sevens · December 14, 2014, 09:16 PM

Hahaha, chris in va, I don't think I have ever seen better photographed evidence of target keyholing than that!

mattL46 · December 14, 2014, 11:01 PM

@sevens and chris in VA I was thinking the same thing. Once I saw my target I was pretty confident it was not key holing. Although its never happened to me so what did I know. This why I turned to the forum. Little did I know I was going to see such a well pronounced case of the illness considering I've never seen it at all. Looks like he traced the pills on the paper and took an exacto knife and cut them out. Pretty crazy.

noylj · December 15, 2014, 01:04 AM

You tore your target. You tore your target. na na na na.
Now that that childishness is out of the way...
Look like nice round bullet holes that tore out the target along the paper grain due to lack of backing and poor paper quality.

TimSr · December 15, 2014, 08:11 AM

Poor paper quality works better for targets. Those yellow/tan recycled, pressed particle paper bunches cleaner than good paper with a directional grain to it. Wadcutters are awesome papar punchers for .38.

December 14, 2014, 04:21 PM	#1
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Is this key holing? Load is a 38 Special. Extreme plated bullets. 158gn. RNFP 4.8 gn unique. COAL of 1.400 very light crimp very light flare. Gun in a new to me 2.5" S&W M66. I shoot this same load out of my 4" M65 and have never seen holes like this. First time I've used these targets as well. Although when I first purchased the 66 I shot several cylinders and no elongated holes like this. ????? Edited to say it was about 25' away and windy. Also the gun has excellent rifling and upon inspection of bore no build up. Have first target which is same brand and lot with nice clean holes. Last edited by mattL46; December 14, 2014 at 04:30 PM.

December 14, 2014, 04:36 PM	#2
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Yes, or the target was at an angle to the path of the bullets. Or something else, since it was the same gun and ammo that didn't key hole on a previous target. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

December 14, 2014, 04:42 PM	#5
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Yes, ^^^ Try it again with the targets stapled or taped to decent cardboard and see what happens. Make sure they are square to the path of the bullets, too. __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

December 14, 2014, 04:45 PM	#7
Barnacle Brad Senior Member Join Date: March 12, 2009 Location: Greybull, Wyoming Posts: 416	Ditto on the backer... __________________ Brad

December 14, 2014, 09:16 PM	#13
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	Hahaha, chris in va, I don't think I have ever seen better photographed evidence of target keyholing than that! __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

December 14, 2014, 04:37 PM	#3
TMD Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2011 Posts: 1,293	Looks more like tears in the target from not having a solid backing. If it was keyholing the holes in the target would be shaped like the side profile of the bullet and your pistol bullets don't have a rifle bullet profile.

December 14, 2014, 04:42 PM	#4
andyjr11 Member Join Date: March 27, 2013 Posts: 40	Does not look like keyholeing to me. The holes in the target are round and the tears are because there was no backing of the target, like cardboard.

December 14, 2014, 04:44 PM	#6
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	OK thanks guys. I had to ask because I wasn't convinced. The little goofy target stand I got can be rotated a bit by the wind. I believe that is what's going on. Not to mention once I take the targets outside they want to kind of roll up. So I think its a combination of not being square to the target and no backing. Thanks folks.

December 14, 2014, 04:49 PM	#8
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Y'all are the best. Tis' why I hang here...

December 14, 2014, 04:56 PM	#9
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	NOT keyholing. IT does look to me like that sharp elongated cuts are by the plating being cut by the rifling, coming loose and sticking out, and cutting the target.

December 14, 2014, 05:15 PM	#10
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	Not just because there's no backing on the target, but also because of low velocity the bullet tears the target instead of cutting through it. There will be quite a velocity difference between a 4" and a 2.5" barrel.

December 14, 2014, 05:18 PM	#11
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	I had keyholing when first starting to reload my lead bullets through my CZ. Like others said it looks exactly like the bullet went in sideways, like a cylinder. Example...

December 14, 2014, 05:48 PM	#12
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	Yep definitely not key holing for me. Like others have said combo of target issues. And the velocity makes sense as well.

December 14, 2014, 11:01 PM	#14
mattL46 Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2013 Posts: 656	@sevens and chris in VA I was thinking the same thing. Once I saw my target I was pretty confident it was not key holing. Although its never happened to me so what did I know. This why I turned to the forum. Little did I know I was going to see such a well pronounced case of the illness considering I've never seen it at all. Looks like he traced the pills on the paper and took an exacto knife and cut them out. Pretty crazy.

December 15, 2014, 01:04 AM	#15
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	You tore your target. You tore your target. na na na na. Now that that childishness is out of the way... Look like nice round bullet holes that tore out the target along the paper grain due to lack of backing and poor paper quality.

December 15, 2014, 08:11 AM	#16
TimSr Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: Rittman, Ohio Posts: 2,074	Poor paper quality works better for targets. Those yellow/tan recycled, pressed particle paper bunches cleaner than good paper with a directional grain to it. Wadcutters are awesome papar punchers for .38.