.32 S&W short, .32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Question??

74camaroman · December 13, 2013, 11:58 AM

Can someone tell me if these two ammo's are the same. I have a Iver Johnson and cycle works, top break 5 shot revolver .32, chambered for the S&W short but noticed that the colt also has a short (32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Ammo).

Here is the one by MagTech: 32 S&W Short 85 Grn. Lead RN Magtech

This is by Colt: 32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Ammo

I would like some expert advise as to "will they both work in the same gun or are they different rounds". Thanks to all who reply.

**Mike Irwin** · December 13, 2013, 12:19 PM

The answer is no, they are not the same.

Generally, the .32 Short Colt will chamber in .32 S&W guns, but it will be a loose fit.

The .32 S&W generally will not chamber in guns chambered for the .32 Short Colt because of differences in the cartridge's neck diameter.

After Colt and many of the ammo companies switched away from the heeled bullet, bullet diameter for the .32 Short and Long Colts was reduced to something like .295.

While the .32 S&W was never officially know as the .32 S&W Short, that is a common term used for it and has been for many years, more than likely as a means of differentiating it from the .32 S&W Long and also in keeping pace with the Colt offerings.

**44 AMP** · December 13, 2013, 12:48 PM

The .32 Short Colt (known in England and Europe as the .320 revolver) is listed as being approx. .014-015 smaller in diameter at the mouth than the .32 S&W. Also .025" smaller rim diameter.

original bullet dia for the .32 colt is listed as .317-.319" while for the S&W it is .312". The change to inside lubricated bullets reduced the Colt to .299" bullet dia, and from 90gr to 80 or 82gr weight. Accuracy reputation is not very good, most likely due to the undersize bullets for the bore diameter.

The Colt rounds (long and short) were introduced in 1875, while the S&W came out in 1878. With an 80gr bullet moving at less than 800fps (factory load) neither the long, nor the short colt, nor the S&W are suited to anything larger than small game, and were (back in their day) considered the minimum calibers for serious self defense.

Today, they all fall below what is considered the minimum for self defense performance.

**Mike Irwin** · December 13, 2013, 12:56 PM

"The .38 Short Colt (known in England and Europe as the .320 revolver)"

The .38 Short Colt is nothing of the sort. It is a completely different cartridge.

The .32 Short Colt was apparently based on the earlier European .320 Revolver, but they are also not identical - their rim dimensions are different, and the case lengths are slightly different, as well.

74camaroman · December 13, 2013, 04:28 PM

Thank you all for the information, I sincerely appreciate all the replies. Does anyone have any reloading information on the 32 s&w? I might want to reload some of the 20 or so empties but that is a future project. Thanks again for the information.

**Unclenick** · December 13, 2013, 04:58 PM

Take a look at the SAAMI drawings for the two:

.32 Short Colt
.32 S&W

You'll see the .32 S&W brass is wider but shorter than the colt, and the overall length is also shorter than for the Colt round.

McShooty · December 13, 2013, 10:52 PM

If you load for a top break IJ, it must be light. I have used 1.4 gr of Trail boss
with .310 round balls and hard cast 76-gr round noses of the type used for .32 ACP. Whereas the normal weight of a .32 S&W lead bullet is 85 or 88 grains, I believe it is better to use lighter bullets in the old poppers to keep pressure down.

**44 AMP** · December 14, 2013, 01:03 AM

Quote:

"The .38 Short Colt (known in England and Europe as the .320 revolver)"

Sorry for the typo, which I didn't catch (38 instead of 32). Fixed now...

Info on .32 Colt/.320 revolver from Cartridges of the World, 3rd edition. (1972)

If this is one of the cases of that book being mistaken, sorry for bad data, but its all I have on this caliber.

darkgael · December 16, 2013, 05:28 AM

Reloading these old cartridges is best done with black powder. That is what they were designed to be loaded with and what the guns were designed to shoot.
Loading with BP is straightforward. Drop enough FFFg powder into the case so that when the bullet is seated the powder charge will be slightly compressed. Crimp.
Pete

December 13, 2013, 11:58 AM	#1
74camaroman Member Join Date: April 24, 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 50	.32 S&W short, .32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Question?? Can someone tell me if these two ammo's are the same. I have a Iver Johnson and cycle works, top break 5 shot revolver .32, chambered for the S&W short but noticed that the colt also has a short (32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Ammo). Here is the one by MagTech: 32 S&W Short 85 Grn. Lead RN Magtech This is by Colt: 32 Short Colt 80 Grain Lead Heeled RN Ammo I would like some expert advise as to "will they both work in the same gun or are they different rounds". Thanks to all who reply. Last edited by 74camaroman; December 13, 2013 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Added Question and marks

December 13, 2013, 12:19 PM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	The answer is no, they are not the same. Generally, the .32 Short Colt will chamber in .32 S&W guns, but it will be a loose fit. The .32 S&W generally will not chamber in guns chambered for the .32 Short Colt because of differences in the cartridge's neck diameter. After Colt and many of the ammo companies switched away from the heeled bullet, bullet diameter for the .32 Short and Long Colts was reduced to something like .295. While the .32 S&W was never officially know as the .32 S&W Short, that is a common term used for it and has been for many years, more than likely as a means of differentiating it from the .32 S&W Long and also in keeping pace with the Colt offerings. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 13, 2013, 12:48 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,818	Smaller and larger both... The .32 Short Colt (known in England and Europe as the .320 revolver) is listed as being approx. .014-015 smaller in diameter at the mouth than the .32 S&W. Also .025" smaller rim diameter. original bullet dia for the .32 colt is listed as .317-.319" while for the S&W it is .312". The change to inside lubricated bullets reduced the Colt to .299" bullet dia, and from 90gr to 80 or 82gr weight. Accuracy reputation is not very good, most likely due to the undersize bullets for the bore diameter. The Colt rounds (long and short) were introduced in 1875, while the S&W came out in 1878. With an 80gr bullet moving at less than 800fps (factory load) neither the long, nor the short colt, nor the S&W are suited to anything larger than small game, and were (back in their day) considered the minimum calibers for serious self defense. Today, they all fall below what is considered the minimum for self defense performance. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

December 13, 2013, 12:56 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,381	"The .38 Short Colt (known in England and Europe as the .320 revolver)" The .38 Short Colt is nothing of the sort. It is a completely different cartridge. The .32 Short Colt was apparently based on the earlier European .320 Revolver, but they are also not identical - their rim dimensions are different, and the case lengths are slightly different, as well. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

December 13, 2013, 04:58 PM	#6
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Take a look at the SAAMI drawings for the two: .32 Short Colt .32 S&W You'll see the .32 S&W brass is wider but shorter than the colt, and the overall length is also shorter than for the Colt round. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

December 13, 2013, 04:28 PM	#5
74camaroman Member Join Date: April 24, 2005 Location: northern California Posts: 50	Thank you all for the information, I sincerely appreciate all the replies. Does anyone have any reloading information on the 32 s&w? I might want to reload some of the 20 or so empties but that is a future project. Thanks again for the information.

December 13, 2013, 10:52 PM	#7
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	If you load for a top break IJ, it must be light. I have used 1.4 gr of Trail boss with .310 round balls and hard cast 76-gr round noses of the type used for .32 ACP. Whereas the normal weight of a .32 S&W lead bullet is 85 or 88 grains, I believe it is better to use lighter bullets in the old poppers to keep pressure down.

December 16, 2013, 05:28 AM	#9
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Reload Reloading these old cartridges is best done with black powder. That is what they were designed to be loaded with and what the guns were designed to shoot. Loading with BP is straightforward. Drop enough FFFg powder into the case so that when the bullet is seated the powder charge will be slightly compressed. Crimp. Pete __________________ “Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports ... all others are games.” Ernest Hemingway ... NRA Life Member