Help Identifying Rifle

Ninetail · February 14, 2013, 12:44 PM

Hey all,

I'm new here, and I don't really know anything about firearms. My grandfather died recently, and I inherited this rifle from him. I'd like some help identifying it. This is the only gun I've ever owned, and I'd like to know when/where it was manufactured etc.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/39352467@N02/8427569554/

Unspoken · February 14, 2013, 02:28 PM

I'm sorry I can't help you..I just wanted to comment on how beautiful that rifle is.

Wait for James K to show up. I have a feeling he'll be all over this one.

tahunua001 · February 14, 2013, 02:28 PM

some larger more detailed pictures, focusing mainly on rifle markings may aid in getting you some more information, usually the left side of the barrel near the receiver has most of the markings.

Ninetail · February 14, 2013, 02:44 PM

I couldn't see any markings on the gun, other than a serial number on the barrel. I can post the number when I get home, would that be helpful at all?

James K · February 14, 2013, 04:58 PM

The rifle is a Warnant action, an improvement on the Flobert. The original Flobert action, which dates to c. 1845, had no breechblock, and depended on its large and heavy hammer to keep the pressure in the chamber when the cartridge fired. Later, Warnant added a breechblock in the form seen here, making rifles that were stronger and could use more powerful cartridges.

Flobert invented the rimfire cartridge, an idea that was later used by a couple of guys named Smith and Wesson.

Those rifles and pistols were made by the ton in Europe, mainly in Belgium, and many were imported into the U.S. before and after WWI. Most were utilitarian rifles for plinking and hunting small game, but some were at the high end with elaborate engraving and intricately carved stocks.

They were made in calibers from 6 to 9mm, including 9mm rimfire shot; some stronger ones were made in centerfire for moderate power rifles and even conventional size shotguns.

Look on the side or bottom of the barrel and breechblock for an oval with the letters E L G. That is the Belgian proof mark and would confirm that it was made in that country. If that is not present, a picture of any markings that are there might help determine its origin.

Jim

Ninetail · February 15, 2013, 11:23 AM

You were right! Opening the breech I did find an oval with the letters E L G. Below the oval was a capital T topped with a crown, star, or fleur-de-lis (I can't quite tell which, it's pretty small).

I also noticed that there was a very faint "AS" on one side of the barrel. The serial number on the opposite side is 4892.

There is some nice engraving around the trigger area (which can be seen in the photo) and on the metal butt of the rifle. The wooden stock has some cross hatch like engraving on it (I assume to provide a better grip).

mapsjanhere · February 15, 2013, 12:05 PM

Usual warning: While you can probably chamber and fire a modern 22 lr cartridge, it's not a safe thing to do. 6 mm Flobert was weaker than the 22 short. If you want to fire it, have a competent gunsmith determine the correct chambering and condition.

Ninetail · February 15, 2013, 12:47 PM

Yeah, I wasn't planning on firing it.

So doing some reading based on your info, it sounds like this is a "garden gun"? It would be used in/around barns and buildings on a farm to control pests. Is that correct?

PetahW · February 15, 2013, 01:02 PM

More like a "parlor gun", used in Europe around the late 1800's for indoor shooting practice/targets - where both low-powered rifle and/or pistols were useful.

"Garden guns' were usually smallbore smoothbores, loaded with fine shot.

.

James K · February 15, 2013, 01:36 PM

The "T" is the initial of the inspector at the Liege Proof House. The "AS" may be the maker. There were at least two makers with the initials "AS". Here is a good place for Liege info:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...ifies%20gb.htm

Jim

February 14, 2013, 12:44 PM	#1
Ninetail Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 4	Help Identifying Rifle Hey all, I'm new here, and I don't really know anything about firearms. My grandfather died recently, and I inherited this rifle from him. I'd like some help identifying it. This is the only gun I've ever owned, and I'd like to know when/where it was manufactured etc. http://www.flickr.com/photos/39352467@N02/8427569554/

February 14, 2013, 02:28 PM	#2
Unspoken Member Join Date: October 12, 2012 Posts: 99	I'm sorry I can't help you..I just wanted to comment on how beautiful that rifle is. Wait for James K to show up. I have a feeling he'll be all over this one. __________________ Proverb for Paranoids: The innocence of the Creatures is in inverse proportion to the immorality of the Master. -T. Pynchon

February 14, 2013, 02:28 PM	#3
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	some larger more detailed pictures, focusing mainly on rifle markings may aid in getting you some more information, usually the left side of the barrel near the receiver has most of the markings. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

February 15, 2013, 12:05 PM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Usual warning: While you can probably chamber and fire a modern 22 lr cartridge, it's not a safe thing to do. 6 mm Flobert was weaker than the 22 short. If you want to fire it, have a competent gunsmith determine the correct chambering and condition. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

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February 14, 2013, 02:44 PM	#4
Ninetail Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 4	I couldn't see any markings on the gun, other than a serial number on the barrel. I can post the number when I get home, would that be helpful at all?

February 14, 2013, 04:58 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The rifle is a Warnant action, an improvement on the Flobert. The original Flobert action, which dates to c. 1845, had no breechblock, and depended on its large and heavy hammer to keep the pressure in the chamber when the cartridge fired. Later, Warnant added a breechblock in the form seen here, making rifles that were stronger and could use more powerful cartridges. Flobert invented the rimfire cartridge, an idea that was later used by a couple of guys named Smith and Wesson. Those rifles and pistols were made by the ton in Europe, mainly in Belgium, and many were imported into the U.S. before and after WWI. Most were utilitarian rifles for plinking and hunting small game, but some were at the high end with elaborate engraving and intricately carved stocks. They were made in calibers from 6 to 9mm, including 9mm rimfire shot; some stronger ones were made in centerfire for moderate power rifles and even conventional size shotguns. Look on the side or bottom of the barrel and breechblock for an oval with the letters E L G. That is the Belgian proof mark and would confirm that it was made in that country. If that is not present, a picture of any markings that are there might help determine its origin. Jim

February 15, 2013, 11:23 AM	#6
Ninetail Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 4	You were right! Opening the breech I did find an oval with the letters E L G. Below the oval was a capital T topped with a crown, star, or fleur-de-lis (I can't quite tell which, it's pretty small). I also noticed that there was a very faint "AS" on one side of the barrel. The serial number on the opposite side is 4892. There is some nice engraving around the trigger area (which can be seen in the photo) and on the metal butt of the rifle. The wooden stock has some cross hatch like engraving on it (I assume to provide a better grip).

February 15, 2013, 12:47 PM	#8
Ninetail Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 4	Yeah, I wasn't planning on firing it. So doing some reading based on your info, it sounds like this is a "garden gun"? It would be used in/around barns and buildings on a farm to control pests. Is that correct?

February 15, 2013, 01:02 PM	#9
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	More like a "parlor gun", used in Europe around the late 1800's for indoor shooting practice/targets - where both low-powered rifle and/or pistols were useful. "Garden guns' were usually smallbore smoothbores, loaded with fine shot. .

February 15, 2013, 01:36 PM	#10
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The "T" is the initial of the inspector at the Liege Proof House. The "AS" may be the maker. There were at least two makers with the initials "AS". Here is a good place for Liege info: http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge...ifies%20gb.htm Jim