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Old January 30, 2005, 05:04 PM   #26
S76Patriot
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Camillus Heat



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Old January 30, 2005, 05:50 PM   #27
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Ok,,,,,,, thanks for helping me understand it a little...

I agree and know first hand how fast a knife from 25 yards can become a deadly weapon. Many training programs train for such events and it's an eye opener to those who never thought of a knife as a big threat. If the BG with the knife is half way trained with it he is twice the threat. The argument if my firearm fails and BG is beating the holy grail out of me with a tire iron, what next? I would then pull backup firearm and use it quickly. If that one failed too it would be over. I don't know but we could come up with What If's until we run out of air. I find my small carry knife a tool for many items but it would be at best #3 tool to use to stop an attack. I think if the first two tools fail I will either be dead or not able to use any further tools to protect myself. This is just my take and I don't intend to change any minds as nobody can change mine to using it as back up to my first firearm. Might be a shade tree chance but real low.... again just me.... Great info and I take all responding with respect...
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Old January 30, 2005, 05:54 PM   #28
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Quote:
I agree and know first hand how fast a knife from 25 yards can become a deadly weapon.
Dont you boys mean "25 feet"? If you cant draw and fire on someone at 25 yards, your either REALLY bad or your opponent is the FLASH.
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Old January 30, 2005, 06:16 PM   #29
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Sir are you kidding.....?

25' and the BG is zipped up on some good cain and coming at you full speed...... sorry I don't know that many quick draws......... maybe a few but that 25' thing is a blink against above.... I will stick my neck out and guess 1 out of 10 average Joe's, as I consider myself, would stop this puke before things got ugly......and you can bet I am not standing still for him to greet me either. Until you have faced a knife and a BG who wants your liver please don't tell me how slow and bad I am......please don't take this wrong but your post has me thinking real hard here.

I just checked the Michigan Legislature web site and it explains something real clear I thought I would share. "Unless licensed to carry a concealed firearm a person may not carry a concealed weapon for SELF DEFENSE. It is cut and dry in the Lansing legal works. It also states any knife over 3" blade is not legal to carry. This whole thing gets into the legal yama jama and I am not in anyway going there. I would admit I would rather be tried in court than carried to an early grave....just my take. (Each state has different laws so I am just giving advice on Michigan's wording)

Yes, 25 yards and less make me nervous.....and closer gets me damn worried... I'm not too proud to run for distance if situation allows.....
ok.....enough on knives I am getting a pain in my side........
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Old January 30, 2005, 11:12 PM   #30
Lawyer Daggit
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tactical knife

Go for a knife from a good brand that is a folding lock knife with a 5 inch blade and good strong bolsters and a non slip handle. It must have a device that assists in the opening of the blade and when you handle it feel like it is a part of you.

If you ever need to use it you will wind up being interviewed by cops and possibly charged and tried. A word from the wise. Avoid anything that is black and tactical- if you wind up having to use it you are better off from a defence point of view having fought with something that happened to be on hand that was applied to the task than something that is 'tactical' and 'premeditated'.
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Old January 30, 2005, 11:38 PM   #31
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Hi Lawyer Daggit. Most states in the U.S. have fairly straightforward criteria as to whether a pocket knife is legal or not. The two main issues are how the blade gets opened and how long the blade is. Fully automatic mechanisms (aka switchblades) are outlawed most places. The length of blade allowed varies by the state. In Tennessee it's 4 inches. They don't care here if the knife is black, blue, tactical or Swiss Army, as long as the blade is 4 inches or less. I believe the same articulation would be necessary for using a (legal) knife for self defense that would be necessary for using a (legal) CCW firearm. No more, no less.

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Old January 30, 2005, 11:48 PM   #32
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Ufo

I agree with you in respect to legality- the issue I was addressing was perception by jurors and your DA's office. If someone claims to be attacked and they use something that is improvised - a screw driver, a fruit knife etc that is one thing, but a lot of DA's have on my understanding ( I live and practice in Australia not US) policies against people carrying knives for self defence-if you are carrying an ugly black tactical knife that is obviously what it is for, if you happended to have your faithful folding knife with you that gets used for everything from opening boxes to peeling fruit, its use is likely to be looked at differently.
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Old January 30, 2005, 11:57 PM   #33
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Maybe in Australia LD, but I don't think that's the case here. This Kershaw is my "whittling knife". That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Old January 31, 2005, 12:17 AM   #34
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Hey Rojoe67, Michigan State compiled laws, sewction 750.226, say that you cannot carry a knife which is classified as a deadly weapon (>3") for an unlawful purpose.

Link
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Old January 31, 2005, 01:13 AM   #35
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(Auto opening knives are illegal here, which is why I go with the butterflies)
Switchblades and ballistics are illegal but butterfly knives aren't? what an odd state.
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Old January 31, 2005, 02:25 AM   #36
Lawyer Daggit
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In NSW (Australia's biggest state) we have laws prohibiting one from carrying knives unless you have a very good reason- self defence is expressly excluded as a good reason.

There have been problems- particularly at night spots in Sydney of people having a few to drink, becoming beligerent and knifing someone.

I usually have a knife about my person for opening my mail and cartons of boxes and peeling fruit- what else?

Fortunately in a lot of country areas the Police apply a level of common sense to the enforcement of the laws (unless they want to nail someone).
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Old January 31, 2005, 08:59 AM   #37
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Ok...thanks for the law I saw that........ sorry I must have read it wrong or understood it wrong?
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Old January 31, 2005, 02:55 PM   #38
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Most any knife will do if you will, self defense wise.

Don't forget they are among the most useful of tools.

Keep those in mind and while some might think you decided "wrong" most will acknowlegde that whatever your decision you'll have decided "right."
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Old January 31, 2005, 05:39 PM   #39
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Just remember that "unlawful purpose" isn't defined, so you better have a "lawful" excuse just in case.
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Old January 31, 2005, 07:20 PM   #40
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I use to live in new york and walk around with a K-BAR knife straped to my leg under my pants.
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Old February 1, 2005, 02:02 AM   #41
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Yes yes 25' that was it sorry... and Good sir i ment no offence by what i said, i was just stating a rule that was taught to me... and normally BGs maybie fairly clever but, they tend not to think about what they are doing when they go to rob someone...
its more like *I need money for my next bag... hey theres a guy *Walks up to him in conversation range and speaks in a low voice* give me all your money or die...*
thats when you need to do a threat assesment and see if the person will shoot you anyway after you give them your wallet... if the person is just skittish and wants to get the hell out of their give him your wallet and report it.. if the guy has a serious look in his eye and is looking at your eyes etc rather then your hands and where the money is coming from then i would be worryed...

i dont mind corrections on these statements i am just speaking from some personal experance...

but considering that i just turned 21 myself and have not been able to get a Carry permit *nor do i have a suitable weapon or training but wish to persue these both /w a personal intrest* i have stuck with knives senise i was 16...

and on a bit of a differnt note.. in responce to a earlyer statement.. i remember a time when i was 17 i was walking to the bus to goto my college, dressed in a trench coat, sun glasses and combat boots *stuped militant kid i was" and i noticed a patrol car pass on the other side of the street. they make a u-trun and stop me, side arms drawn. i clamly keep my hands in clear view and ask what the problem was.. they just asked me to open my coat, and hand them my bag, also if i had any weapons on me... like a fool i mentioned i had 3 pocket knives on my.. my Gerber lock back, my multitool and my swiss army knife. after giving me a bit of an odd look they checked my ID and left me on my way...

looking at this thread i thought that was pretty intresting antadote ..

Jess
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Old February 1, 2005, 03:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S76Patriot
Camillus Heat



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I had gotten to the bottom of the first page and wondered why nobody had mentioned Camillus yet. IMO, they make the best folding knives for the money. I have a black bladed serrated Heat as pictured and a Cuda Maxx, both are excellent knives.
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Old February 1, 2005, 04:42 AM   #43
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Ten yds!

Ten yds is the latest "Thats to close" distance, used to be 21 feet, but a teen, with bad intent, and a knife will cut you!! a wee bit less chance at 10 yds, (30ft) I have carrid a knife all my adult life, the last 5 years, or so, the Benchmade axis lock, quicker than an auto knife, and a one hand closer as well.
1960 to 64 I worked on the door of The Cavern Club, in Liverpool UK, I was stabbed twice, once in the back, nasty little cut next to my right kidney, once in the right wrist, by a rat tail file, converted to an ice pick by some sick s+++ in a suit! this 18 year old had this weapon up side down in a holder, stiched inside his jacket, what I thought was a straight left punch!! was a thumb forward stab for the heart! I took it in the right wrist blocking what I thought was a punch, silly me! promptly slamming him into the stone wall in the entrance (head first, side of head!) the Police took him away, still out, not sure if he took a dive into the Mersey!! at least I was never called to Court.

A Glock 19 is not as small as a knife, but quicker to get into play, and the ringing in your ears goes away after a while!
Keep Safe.
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Old February 1, 2005, 03:10 PM   #44
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Don't

Don't carry a knife for self-defence unless you are very skilled in knife-combat. Otherwise your own knife might quickly turn against you.
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Old February 1, 2005, 07:46 PM   #45
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Benchmade AFCK...D2 steel...very nice knife and I love the newer axis lock. Also for a really big folder I love my Cold Steel Grand Vaquero...it carries very easily and I carry it often...mostly my AFCK though because it is more comfortable. Trust me on this...even with a moderate skill level, a person can be very effective with a solid knife in hand. Get some knife fighting videos and see what a totally unskilled person can do with one.
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Old February 1, 2005, 09:09 PM   #46
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Any reason a diving knife would be a bad choice?
http://www.oceanmaster.com/Knives.htm
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Old February 1, 2005, 09:49 PM   #47
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Also, in reguard to why you should carry a knife when you have a gun. What if a guy comes from behind and gets his hand on your gun, you grab his wrist as he starts to grip the gun in your holster. With your free hand, you grab your knife and slit his wrist. simple as that.
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Old February 1, 2005, 09:58 PM   #48
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I don't understand how that Emerson Commander can be opened so fast - looks like an auto-knife....

Wow, I *really* like that ocean master dive knife - nice.
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Old February 2, 2005, 12:58 AM   #49
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this is true i remember reading something a big knive trainner (from what he said he had studyed TONs of knife fighting teciques from all over the world) had wrote..

'Among all my training and learning i found one attack to be the most effective... i have used it in demionstartions with other knife fighting masters and always stab the person *fake knives of course*. and this was the Prison Yard Rush.. just a simple unexpected tackle and stab and it is for the most part undefendable'

keeping things like this in mind.. the only problem is when you are on the receving end of this.. but we all should accept the fact that if the person really had the intent to kill us. we wouldent know it *except for maybie law efforcement or the like where they are going into a 'Hot' Area*.. and thinking about that i know personally if i really had the intent to kill someone they would not have any forwarning about it... in all honesty the best defence is not nessarlly a good offence but a good watchful eye..

and we never bring a knive to a knive fight.. we bring a knive to a fist fight, a bat to a knive fight, a gun to a bat fight and so on...the whole point of weapon is to have an advantage over your oponint..

Just me thoughts
Jess
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Old February 2, 2005, 04:28 AM   #50
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Spyderco Delica serrated. I bought mine at Fred Meyers in Fairbanks AK for the token sum of $17+ about 8 years ago. I originally never used it for anything else - to keep the blade sharp as new. But once or twice had nothing else to use for a chore and have been trying to wear it out ever since. I have not resharpened it and still going strong.

One I would like to get is the Al Mar SERE 2000, but I shall have to wear out that Spyderco first.
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