Colt 1894 .38 Army & Navy

asr22 · July 31, 2013, 11:59 PM

I have a Colt 1894 .38 Army & Navy and it will not cycle the trigger can be pulled but the hammer only move abot a 1/8 of a inch. The cylinder will not cycle to the next chamber either. Can I fix this or should. I take it to a gunsmith?

Thanks

**Mike Irwin** · August 1, 2013, 09:51 AM

The sad fact is that there are few gunsmiths today who work on Colts, the supply of replacement parts for old Colts is practically exhausted, and often repairing an old Colt, especially one chambered for an obsolete cartridge, can cost a LOT more than the gun's worth.

Bob Wright · August 1, 2013, 10:33 AM

Well, I'd look up the parts on Numrich's (Gun Parts Corporation) to see whats available, maybe also Dixie Gun Works.

Either your trigger has the sear worn off, or the DA fly on the hammer is not all there. These parts are easily replaced if you are mechanically minded and if you can find the parts. BUT be sure you have proper fitting screwdrivers.

Bob Wright

James K · August 1, 2013, 12:40 PM

I cannot tell for sure what is wrong without having the gun, but IMHO nothing on those guns is simple. I suspect that the bolt is not releasing, so the cylinder won't turn, which keeps the trigger from moving. But that is a WAG and there could be several causes of that condition.

Gun Parts Corp (www.gunpartscorp.com) has some parts for those guns, but not many and some are taken from broken up guns. I am also told Jack First has some parts also, but I don't know which ones.

The first job is to find out what is wrong and I have no idea who would be able (or willing) to even look at one of those guns.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · August 1, 2013, 12:46 PM

If the hammer isn't rotating back, then the sear may be broken or even jammed in the rearward position such that it won't be picked up by the tail of the trigger.

If the cylinder won't rotate, either the bolt isn't dropping to allow the cylinder to rotate or the hand is really worn.

Don't try to fix it yourself. I was trained in Colts at Lassen College and the last one was problematic. It took me forever to install a replacement bolt and after that, the trigger would not return to its position of rest. After numerous adjustments it did, but the timing was marginal and I broke the hand while attempting to stretch it. I had to machine a new one from bar stock and then time it.

I suspect that yours is an even older Colt with two rebound levers instead of just one like the Python/Diamondback and older Police Positives. It will be especially hard to work on (and I've only worked on one of those once).

Moving to Smithy. Suggest you send it to Cylinder and Slide or to Trinidad State Gunsmithing School. We have one teacher who knows them inside and out.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 1, 2013, 01:04 PM

When you say the trigger can be pulled, do you mean all the way, or just a small amount? It seems to me that this might be the sear on the trigger missing, as that could cause the hammer to barely move, and nothing else, as the rebound lever works the cylinder stop on these. If this is the case, and if the cylinder stop is holding the cylinder from revolving, then working the trigger will grind the cylinder hand against the ratchet until it skips, so it's not good to do this much, or you'll need a new cylinder hand, or possibly have to fix the ratchet on the cylinder.

Below is how the triggers sear to hammer works.

Colt Sear 2 by matneyw, on Flickr

40-82 · August 1, 2013, 02:30 PM

Complicating your problem relatively few gunsmiths today are familiar with the Colt 1908 action of the New Service, Police Positive and others. Yours is an older action with if I remember correctly a double mainspring system and a cylinder that revolved counter clockwise, a feature no other Colt had. According to R.L. Wilson, the only source I have immediately at hand, your 1894 model was the first in the series of Army and Navy Colts that had hammer and trigger locks, The action had a reputation for delicacy. I have two of them which I haven't shot in a while, and I've never worked on this action.

Once you figure out what you need in parts, you may be surprised that you very well might find what you need. Of course start with Gun Parts Corporation because if they do have what you need they will likely be the cheapest source.

**4V50 Gary** · August 1, 2013, 02:43 PM

I found a parts diagram. It is indeed the action that preceded the Python/Police Positive type action. DO NOT WORK ON IT YOURSELF The hand works the same as does the Python, but the rebound lever (31) is different.

Link to Steves' Pages

I'm wondering if the hand spring (28) is broken. This would cause the hand (27) not to engage the ratchet. Of course, if the bolt (29) isn't dropping, then the cylinder won't rotate anyway.

Finally, don't be surprised if the cost to repair outweigh cost of the gun itself.

James K · August 1, 2013, 06:07 PM

The action shown in #6 is a newer Colt, not the Army & Navy. The link 4V50 Gary gives is the gun in question, a different lockwork.

Jim

**4V50 Gary** · August 1, 2013, 06:24 PM

Well, hopefully it is the more modern Police Positive type lockwork.

asr22 - is the sideplate on the left side or the right side of the frame? If on the right side, the illustration is correct.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 1, 2013, 06:38 PM

The photo, even though not the same revolver, still has the thin sear on the trigger. The main thing is how thin and long the sear is, and is easy to break off. I didn't have a photo of the one in question, so I used the closest thing I had to it for a comparison.

If there was just a stub of the sear left, it could be enough to just contact the hammer strut, and bring it partly back, but let it drop way early. That's what I think has happened to it.

Dixie Gunsmithing · August 1, 2013, 07:02 PM

Below is as close as I can come, as I couldn't find an internal photo, just a drawing, which don't show the mechanism clearly.

Colt New Army by matneyw, on Flickr

asr22 · September 3, 2013, 11:48 AM

I found out the problem it is the Hammer Strut Spring (Flat). Now my problem is to find one or maybe make one myself. It is # 18 on the drawing Dixie Gunsmithing provided. If anyone has any ideas on where I can find one it would be great. Have been to all the usual places with no luck.

Thanks again

James K · September 3, 2013, 03:19 PM

If the cylinder isn't turning, the hand spring may be broken or missing also. Those flat springs can be made from spring stock, but a source of surprisingly good spring steel is the common binder clip that can be bought at any office supply store. Available in several sizes and strengths, they can be cut with sheet metal cutters or, if kept cool with water, with the cutoff wheel of a Dremel tool.

Jim

triggerman770 · September 18, 2013, 02:58 AM

you might find parts here
http://www.coltparts.com/parts1.html
he has some for one I'm starting on. It wasn't a used gun. It was a used up gun

July 31, 2013, 11:59 PM	#1
asr22 Junior Member Join Date: July 31, 2013 Posts: 2	Colt 1894 .38 New Army & Navy I have a Colt 1894 .38 Army & Navy and it will not cycle the trigger can be pulled but the hammer only move abot a 1/8 of a inch. The cylinder will not cycle to the next chamber either. Can I fix this or should. I take it to a gunsmith? Thanks Last edited by asr22; August 1, 2013 at 03:23 PM.

August 1, 2013, 09:51 AM	#2
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	The sad fact is that there are few gunsmiths today who work on Colts, the supply of replacement parts for old Colts is practically exhausted, and often repairing an old Colt, especially one chambered for an obsolete cartridge, can cost a LOT more than the gun's worth. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 1, 2013, 12:46 PM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	If the hammer isn't rotating back, then the sear may be broken or even jammed in the rearward position such that it won't be picked up by the tail of the trigger. If the cylinder won't rotate, either the bolt isn't dropping to allow the cylinder to rotate or the hand is really worn. Don't try to fix it yourself. I was trained in Colts at Lassen College and the last one was problematic. It took me forever to install a replacement bolt and after that, the trigger would not return to its position of rest. After numerous adjustments it did, but the timing was marginal and I broke the hand while attempting to stretch it. I had to machine a new one from bar stock and then time it. I suspect that yours is an even older Colt with two rebound levers instead of just one like the Python/Diamondback and older Police Positives. It will be especially hard to work on (and I've only worked on one of those once). Moving to Smithy. Suggest you send it to Cylinder and Slide or to Trinidad State Gunsmithing School. We have one teacher who knows them inside and out. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 1, 2013, 02:43 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	I found a parts diagram. It is indeed the action that preceded the Python/Police Positive type action. DO NOT WORK ON IT YOURSELF The hand works the same as does the Python, but the rebound lever (31) is different. Link to Steves' Pages I'm wondering if the hand spring (28) is broken. This would cause the hand (27) not to engage the ratchet. Of course, if the bolt (29) isn't dropping, then the cylinder won't rotate anyway. Finally, don't be surprised if the cost to repair outweigh cost of the gun itself. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 1, 2013, 06:24 PM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,831	Well, hopefully it is the more modern Police Positive type lockwork. asr22 - is the sideplate on the left side or the right side of the frame? If on the right side, the illustration is correct. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

August 1, 2013, 10:33 AM	#3
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	Well, I'd look up the parts on Numrich's (Gun Parts Corporation) to see whats available, maybe also Dixie Gun Works. Either your trigger has the sear worn off, or the DA fly on the hammer is not all there. These parts are easily replaced if you are mechanically minded and if you can find the parts. BUT be sure you have proper fitting screwdrivers. Bob Wright

August 1, 2013, 12:40 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I cannot tell for sure what is wrong without having the gun, but IMHO nothing on those guns is simple. I suspect that the bolt is not releasing, so the cylinder won't turn, which keeps the trigger from moving. But that is a WAG and there could be several causes of that condition. Gun Parts Corp (www.gunpartscorp.com) has some parts for those guns, but not many and some are taken from broken up guns. I am also told Jack First has some parts also, but I don't know which ones. The first job is to find out what is wrong and I have no idea who would be able (or willing) to even look at one of those guns. Jim

August 1, 2013, 01:04 PM	#6
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	When you say the trigger can be pulled, do you mean all the way, or just a small amount? It seems to me that this might be the sear on the trigger missing, as that could cause the hammer to barely move, and nothing else, as the rebound lever works the cylinder stop on these. If this is the case, and if the cylinder stop is holding the cylinder from revolving, then working the trigger will grind the cylinder hand against the ratchet until it skips, so it's not good to do this much, or you'll need a new cylinder hand, or possibly have to fix the ratchet on the cylinder. Below is how the triggers sear to hammer works. Colt Sear 2 by matneyw, on Flickr Last edited by Dixie Gunsmithing; August 1, 2013 at 02:56 PM.

August 1, 2013, 02:30 PM	#7
40-82 Senior Member Join Date: June 6, 2013 Posts: 178	Complicating your problem relatively few gunsmiths today are familiar with the Colt 1908 action of the New Service, Police Positive and others. Yours is an older action with if I remember correctly a double mainspring system and a cylinder that revolved counter clockwise, a feature no other Colt had. According to R.L. Wilson, the only source I have immediately at hand, your 1894 model was the first in the series of Army and Navy Colts that had hammer and trigger locks, The action had a reputation for delicacy. I have two of them which I haven't shot in a while, and I've never worked on this action. Once you figure out what you need in parts, you may be surprised that you very well might find what you need. Of course start with Gun Parts Corporation because if they do have what you need they will likely be the cheapest source.

August 1, 2013, 06:07 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The action shown in #6 is a newer Colt, not the Army & Navy. The link 4V50 Gary gives is the gun in question, a different lockwork. Jim

August 1, 2013, 06:38 PM	#11
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	The photo, even though not the same revolver, still has the thin sear on the trigger. The main thing is how thin and long the sear is, and is easy to break off. I didn't have a photo of the one in question, so I used the closest thing I had to it for a comparison. If there was just a stub of the sear left, it could be enough to just contact the hammer strut, and bring it partly back, but let it drop way early. That's what I think has happened to it.

August 1, 2013, 07:02 PM	#12
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Below is as close as I can come, as I couldn't find an internal photo, just a drawing, which don't show the mechanism clearly. Colt New Army by matneyw, on Flickr

September 3, 2013, 11:48 AM	#13
asr22 Junior Member Join Date: July 31, 2013 Posts: 2	Thanks Everyone I found out the problem it is the Hammer Strut Spring (Flat). Now my problem is to find one or maybe make one myself. It is # 18 on the drawing Dixie Gunsmithing provided. If anyone has any ideas on where I can find one it would be great. Have been to all the usual places with no luck. Thanks again

September 3, 2013, 03:19 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If the cylinder isn't turning, the hand spring may be broken or missing also. Those flat springs can be made from spring stock, but a source of surprisingly good spring steel is the common binder clip that can be bought at any office supply store. Available in several sizes and strengths, they can be cut with sheet metal cutters or, if kept cool with water, with the cutoff wheel of a Dremel tool. Jim

September 18, 2013, 02:58 AM	#15
triggerman770 Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2009 Location: Metro Atlanta Area Posts: 125	you might find parts here http://www.coltparts.com/parts1.html he has some for one I'm starting on. It wasn't a used gun. It was a used up gun __________________ Small Arms Restoration, Inc. smallarmsrestoration.net Proud member of Georgia Carry.org www.georgiacarry.org