AR15 recoil questions

Chainsaw. · September 30, 2016, 10:37 PM

Hey guys, Got a head scratcher....well for me it is. Maybe ya'll will know better. So I built a varmit AR, 20" WOA barrel, rifle length gas system, A2 butt stock, not sure on buffer weight. No brake/comp/deflector/suppressor. Just an 11º target crown. Also, I build this thing to be heavy, still need to weigh it but Id bet its pushing ten pounds, yet it still seems to recoil pretty heavy for an AR. Now its been 20 years since Ive shot a bolt action in a caliber similar to 223 so my bias may be off but it does seem excessive for such a heavy rifle in such a small caliber. Would the lack of a muzzle device cause more recoil or is she way overgassed or have to light of a buffer?

Your thoughts please.

`Bama_Mike · September 30, 2016, 10:42 PM

I would think if the buffer was too light your brass would be ejecting all crazy. Neither of my two AR's seem to have any real recoil, even on the 6.8spc.

turtlehead · September 30, 2016, 11:34 PM

Shhhhhhh. You're supposed to say you can't even feel the recoil.

CarJunkieLS1 · October 1, 2016, 07:13 AM

The thing with AR's is that they don't have a recoil pad at all. It's hard plastic or very thin rubber. Couple that with a real thin t-shirt and I can see why it has more perceived recoil than you thought it would.

SR420 · October 1, 2016, 09:04 AM

What recoil?

salt and battery · October 1, 2016, 09:55 AM

how much recoil can be in an AR over 10 lbs?

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 10:35 AM

Exactly my point guys. It seems excessive.

My others are complete pu**y cats. Just seems odd.

VoodooMountain · October 1, 2016, 10:38 AM

I think what you are perceiving as recoil is actually the noise and movement of the bolt. It can seem a bit harsh at first. You also mention you you don't know what buffer you have. If it is a lighter buffer than recommended it can make all this seem a bit more violent especially when brass comes flying out.

I have a few ar's and none of them weigh as much as yours. I also have a hog hunter in 223. Despite the equal weight of the bolt action to one of my ar's the bolt action is perceived to be much more mild and tame.

From a physics standpoint your ar should have about 2 ft lbs of recoil.
A 243 has about 10 and a 30-06 about 17 from a hunting rifle.

Those are approximated but it gives you a good idea of the difference.

themalicious0ne · October 1, 2016, 10:40 AM

Do you know your gas port size? What is the chamber? What ammo are you running through it?

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 10:42 AM

Just weighed it on my crappy scale I use for making ingots.

Rifle is 10 3/4 pounds.

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 10:45 AM

Voodoo. Ive been shooting since I was 5. Ive shot up to .416 rigby, I have maybe 20,000 rounds through ARs. Im VERY familiar with the way they shoot and I dont write for a newspaper.

VoodooMountain · October 1, 2016, 10:48 AM

Chainsaw,
The only thing I can think of at this point is to add a comp.

Ps. I'm glad you haven't been suffering from ptsd from your experience.

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 10:49 AM

TMO, gas port size I dont know, Id have to write to white oak armorment for that. Its a 223 wylde chamber. Most running my reloads, 55grain lead core over 25.5 grains of benchmark and a CCI small rifle primer. Nothing special. Pressure should be ~51-52,000. Again, nothing out of this world.

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 10:51 AM

Id rather not add a comp, I am wondering if I need the classic AR bandaid of a heavier buffer. Just dont want to throw parts at it for no reason.

Edit* LOLOLOL!!!

Bartholomew Roberts · October 1, 2016, 11:12 AM

Usually, if you are perceiving increased recoil in the situation you describe, what you are really feeling is reciprocating mass cycling. You may need to play around with the buffer weights and bolt carrier group to find that sweet spot of mass that matches your gas port. You can also add an adjustable gas port in as well.

That is actually one of the underappreciated parts of the AR system - when you get the balance of everything set up just right, it is amazing. I'd just say that instead of going heavier, going as light as you can get reliable function may be better. You might want to look at a stronger buffer spring as well.

Old Bill Dibble · October 1, 2016, 11:20 AM

If it is a recoil a brake will get rid of it. A heavier buffer may reduce it some but not eliminate it.

rickyrick · October 1, 2016, 11:22 AM

He has a non threaded barrel I believe

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 11:29 AM

Ricky. Correct.

Old bill. I expected more recoil not having a brake but this is definitely excessive.

Bart. Thanks. Any suggestions on buffer weight?

Mobuck · October 1, 2016, 12:50 PM

While we were shooting the last M-4(gery) I assembled for a family friend, my 7 year old Granddaughter commented on the recoil. She's only fired a 22 so it was more than she'd expected.
Just to show her the recoil was really quite light, I fired a shot with the butt against the end of my nose. I was holding the carbine fairly tightly in my hands and the bump on my nose wasn't uncomfortable at all.
Considering the laws of physics, it's impossible for a 10# .223 to have much recoil.

If your AR is functioning properly, DO NOT change the buffer as an attempt to modify the "excessive" recoil.

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 12:52 PM

Go back and reread the comments.

I said nothing about it being painful or jarring or unshootable. What I daid is that the recoil is EXCESSIVE for what I would expect of of a nearly 11# rifle shooting such a small cartridge. And yes, any moron who understands pyhsics would release that such a small roumd would have minimal pushback BUT guess what, a bolt carrier weighs a whole heck of alot more than a little bullet, therefore excessive rearward speed of said bolt carrier can infact cause the perseption of heavier recoil. Now that Ive spelled i out for you do you care to add something constructive or do you insist on being troll like?

rickyrick · October 1, 2016, 01:04 PM

Is the receiver extension a carbine extension with an adapter for the A2 stock or is it an A2 extension?

Chainsaw. · October 1, 2016, 01:11 PM

Ooohh..good guestion Ricky. Let me pop it apart and do some looking.

Bartholomew Roberts · October 1, 2016, 02:14 PM

My first suggestion would be to check the length of the buffer spring and make sure it is within spec (between 10 1/16" - 11 1/8" length for a carbine spring). Do you think the BCG is bottoming out on the buffer tube? That will definitely give a sensation of increased recoil?

On buffer weights, you just have to play around and see what works. Heavier increases dwell time and slows unlocking but increases reciprocating mass. Lighter reduces reciprocating mass but if you are getting a lot of gas (oversized gas port, short gas tube, etc.), dwell time might get too short for good function - that's where an adjustable gas port may be handy though I generally prefer to just go for function over absolute smoothest action.

JP Rifles has an endless array of stuff to tune your action just so.

salt and battery · October 1, 2016, 03:30 PM

full auto BG might help but an adjustable gas block will do it not a cheap fix and a little pain in the neck

jmr40 · October 1, 2016, 05:09 PM

Most recoil is between the ears and this proves it. That rifle can't have more than 3-4 ft lbs of recoil. But the noise and other factors has your brain thinking it is a lot more. I read posts quite often where people claim that rifles generating 40-50 ft lbs of recoil are more comfortable than others with 30 ft lbs. Or that one rifle with only 25 ft lbs of recoil has significantly more recoil than another that generates 30 ft lbs. They see the word "magnum" and their shoulders start hurting before they pull the trigger.

September 30, 2016, 10:37 PM	#1
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	AR15 recoil questions Hey guys, Got a head scratcher....well for me it is. Maybe ya'll will know better. So I built a varmit AR, 20" WOA barrel, rifle length gas system, A2 butt stock, not sure on buffer weight. No brake/comp/deflector/suppressor. Just an 11º target crown. Also, I build this thing to be heavy, still need to weigh it but Id bet its pushing ten pounds, yet it still seems to recoil pretty heavy for an AR. Now its been 20 years since Ive shot a bolt action in a caliber similar to 223 so my bias may be off but it does seem excessive for such a heavy rifle in such a small caliber. Would the lack of a muzzle device cause more recoil or is she way overgassed or have to light of a buffer? Your thoughts please.

October 1, 2016, 09:04 AM	#5
SR420 Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2005 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 3,336	What recoil? __________________ The History and Development of the M14 EBR

October 1, 2016, 11:20 AM	#16
Old Bill Dibble Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2016 Posts: 802	If it is a recoil a brake will get rid of it. A heavier buffer may reduce it some but not eliminate it. __________________ "Tragedy has been and will always be with us. Somewhere right now, evil people are planning evil things. All of us will do everything meaningful, everything we can do to prevent it, but each horrible act can’t become an axe for opportunists to cleave the very Bill of Rights that binds us."

October 1, 2016, 12:52 PM	#20
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Go back and reread the comments. I said nothing about it being painful or jarring or unshootable. What I daid is that the recoil is EXCESSIVE for what I would expect of of a nearly 11# rifle shooting such a small cartridge. And yes, any moron who understands pyhsics would release that such a small roumd would have minimal pushback BUT guess what, a bolt carrier weighs a whole heck of alot more than a little bullet, therefore excessive rearward speed of said bolt carrier can infact cause the perseption of heavier recoil. Now that Ive spelled i out for you do you care to add something constructive or do you insist on being troll like? Last edited by Chainsaw.; October 1, 2016 at 01:10 PM.

September 30, 2016, 10:42 PM	#2
`Bama_Mike Member Join Date: August 31, 2016 Location: North Alabama Posts: 30	I would think if the buffer was too light your brass would be ejecting all crazy. Neither of my two AR's seem to have any real recoil, even on the 6.8spc.

September 30, 2016, 11:34 PM	#3
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	Shhhhhhh. You're supposed to say you can't even feel the recoil.

October 1, 2016, 07:13 AM	#4
CarJunkieLS1 Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2013 Posts: 686	The thing with AR's is that they don't have a recoil pad at all. It's hard plastic or very thin rubber. Couple that with a real thin t-shirt and I can see why it has more perceived recoil than you thought it would.

October 1, 2016, 09:55 AM	#6
salt and battery Junior member Join Date: September 24, 2016 Location: ny Posts: 112	how much recoil can be in an AR over 10 lbs?

October 1, 2016, 10:35 AM	#7
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Exactly my point guys. It seems excessive. My others are complete pu**y cats. Just seems odd.

October 1, 2016, 10:38 AM	#8
VoodooMountain Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2014 Posts: 179	I think what you are perceiving as recoil is actually the noise and movement of the bolt. It can seem a bit harsh at first. You also mention you you don't know what buffer you have. If it is a lighter buffer than recommended it can make all this seem a bit more violent especially when brass comes flying out. I have a few ar's and none of them weigh as much as yours. I also have a hog hunter in 223. Despite the equal weight of the bolt action to one of my ar's the bolt action is perceived to be much more mild and tame. From a physics standpoint your ar should have about 2 ft lbs of recoil. A 243 has about 10 and a 30-06 about 17 from a hunting rifle. Those are approximated but it gives you a good idea of the difference.

October 1, 2016, 10:40 AM	#9
themalicious0ne Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2012 Location: Oconomowoc, WI Posts: 345	Do you know your gas port size? What is the chamber? What ammo are you running through it?

October 1, 2016, 10:42 AM	#10
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Just weighed it on my crappy scale I use for making ingots. Rifle is 10 3/4 pounds.

October 1, 2016, 10:45 AM	#11
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Voodoo. Ive been shooting since I was 5. Ive shot up to .416 rigby, I have maybe 20,000 rounds through ARs. Im VERY familiar with the way they shoot and I dont write for a newspaper.

October 1, 2016, 10:48 AM	#12
VoodooMountain Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2014 Posts: 179	Chainsaw, The only thing I can think of at this point is to add a comp. Ps. I'm glad you haven't been suffering from ptsd from your experience.

October 1, 2016, 10:49 AM	#13
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	TMO, gas port size I dont know, Id have to write to white oak armorment for that. Its a 223 wylde chamber. Most running my reloads, 55grain lead core over 25.5 grains of benchmark and a CCI small rifle primer. Nothing special. Pressure should be ~51-52,000. Again, nothing out of this world.

October 1, 2016, 10:51 AM	#14
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Id rather not add a comp, I am wondering if I need the classic AR bandaid of a heavier buffer. Just dont want to throw parts at it for no reason. Edit* LOLOLOL!!!

October 1, 2016, 11:12 AM	#15
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	Usually, if you are perceiving increased recoil in the situation you describe, what you are really feeling is reciprocating mass cycling. You may need to play around with the buffer weights and bolt carrier group to find that sweet spot of mass that matches your gas port. You can also add an adjustable gas port in as well. That is actually one of the underappreciated parts of the AR system - when you get the balance of everything set up just right, it is amazing. I'd just say that instead of going heavier, going as light as you can get reliable function may be better. You might want to look at a stronger buffer spring as well.

October 1, 2016, 11:22 AM	#17
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	He has a non threaded barrel I believe

October 1, 2016, 11:29 AM	#18
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Ricky. Correct. Old bill. I expected more recoil not having a brake but this is definitely excessive. Bart. Thanks. Any suggestions on buffer weight?

October 1, 2016, 12:50 PM	#19
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	While we were shooting the last M-4(gery) I assembled for a family friend, my 7 year old Granddaughter commented on the recoil. She's only fired a 22 so it was more than she'd expected. Just to show her the recoil was really quite light, I fired a shot with the butt against the end of my nose. I was holding the carbine fairly tightly in my hands and the bump on my nose wasn't uncomfortable at all. Considering the laws of physics, it's impossible for a 10# .223 to have much recoil. If your AR is functioning properly, DO NOT change the buffer as an attempt to modify the "excessive" recoil.

October 1, 2016, 01:04 PM	#21
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	Is the receiver extension a carbine extension with an adapter for the A2 stock or is it an A2 extension?

October 1, 2016, 01:11 PM	#22
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Ooohh..good guestion Ricky. Let me pop it apart and do some looking.

October 1, 2016, 02:14 PM	#23
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	My first suggestion would be to check the length of the buffer spring and make sure it is within spec (between 10 1/16" - 11 1/8" length for a carbine spring). Do you think the BCG is bottoming out on the buffer tube? That will definitely give a sensation of increased recoil? On buffer weights, you just have to play around and see what works. Heavier increases dwell time and slows unlocking but increases reciprocating mass. Lighter reduces reciprocating mass but if you are getting a lot of gas (oversized gas port, short gas tube, etc.), dwell time might get too short for good function - that's where an adjustable gas port may be handy though I generally prefer to just go for function over absolute smoothest action. JP Rifles has an endless array of stuff to tune your action just so.

October 1, 2016, 03:30 PM	#24
salt and battery Junior member Join Date: September 24, 2016 Location: ny Posts: 112	full auto BG might help but an adjustable gas block will do it not a cheap fix and a little pain in the neck

October 1, 2016, 05:09 PM	#25
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,809	Most recoil is between the ears and this proves it. That rifle can't have more than 3-4 ft lbs of recoil. But the noise and other factors has your brain thinking it is a lot more. I read posts quite often where people claim that rifles generating 40-50 ft lbs of recoil are more comfortable than others with 30 ft lbs. Or that one rifle with only 25 ft lbs of recoil has significantly more recoil than another that generates 30 ft lbs. They see the word "magnum" and their shoulders start hurting before they pull the trigger.