I wish Sig made more carbon steel framed semi auto pistols !

WIN1886 · February 2, 2013, 10:06 AM

I just feel carbon steel has a more fluidly smooth action over the stainless pistols I own like my P220 Elite which is a great pistol for sure and yes , I'm using the recommended lube ! I know they make the P210 in carbon steel but would like to see carbon steel models at about half that price !

Other makes as well , like S&W bringing back the model 952 in carbon steel as an example ! I know stainless is nice for being more rust resistant in certain conditions but a few carbon steel models I'm sure would be popular ! I wouldn't hesitate to grab a Sig P220 in full carbon steel if it ever was produced !

Skadoosh · February 2, 2013, 10:29 AM

...my aluminum frame/stainless steel slide Sig P226 has a buttery smooth action. It is so smooth that it feels like it's on ball bearings.

TunnelRat · February 2, 2013, 10:55 AM

Explain to me again what the frame material has to do with the smoothness of the action?

WIN1886 · February 2, 2013, 11:03 AM

So why does my carbon steel Browning Hi Power feel way more fluid between the slide and frame than both of my stainless steel .45 auto's ? This is what Ive noticed especially after they get warm from use and I have even noticed it on revolvers when they get hot from lots of shooting ! This is not to say I don't like my stainless pistols...in fact , I bought them for the more rust resistant properties over carbon steel ! Regardless , I wish they produced at least some carbon steel framed models for the few of us that would appreciate the effort , thanks !

Dragline45 · February 2, 2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

So why does my carbon steel Browning Hi Power feel way more fluid between the slide and frame than both of my stainless steel .45 auto's ?

That means absolutely nothing. It would be one thing if you were comparing a stainless Hi Power to a carbon steel Hi Power, but to compare two completely different guns and make the assumption that the type of metal used is the reason for a smoother action makes zero sense.

By the way, you could have 5 identical looking Hi Powers sitting all next to each other, one could have the smoothest action ever, and the others could feel like crap. Some pistols are fitted better than others, but no two pistols are exactly the same even if they are the same brand and model.

WIN1886 · February 2, 2013, 01:49 PM

Even with today's stainless alloys , carbon steel has less of a friction coefficient than stainless.......I heard it is common to use a different alloy of stainless with slide in match with the frame ! The frame on my P220 looks just a tad different in finish than the slide....try running a stainless pistol with dry lube in comparison to a carbon steel pistol sometime ! I will always run a stainless with the Sig recommended wet lube and yes, it runs and hold up just fine if maintained properly ! The point is for my own preference I wish Sig offered a carbon steel version of the P220 and other models and just maybe a few others would want one as well ! They most likely won't because they have no trouble selling the models they already produce ! For those that like aluminum alloy frames, if I had to carry the pistol everyday I most likely would go with that option as well ! I have felt the difference in other carbon steel pistols other than my BHP so that was just an example.....I already know Sig makes great stainless pistols but if they made a carbon steel framed P220 I'd buy it in a heartbeat ! If there is an actual gunsmith that can persuade me different that knows a few things about metallurgy then fine....I've heard it does make a difference and I've felt the difference and I'm just a regular joe that likes to shoot !

Dragline45 · February 2, 2013, 01:57 PM

Say what you want, but carbon steel does not contribute to a smoother action over stainless. A well fit pistol is what makes an action smooth.

Quote:

Even with today's stainless alloys , carbon steel has less of a friction coefficient than stainless.......I heard it is common to use a different alloy of stainless with slide in match with the frame

Huh?

WIN1886 · February 2, 2013, 02:11 PM

Mkay , I will.....and yes , I've been told this when I took a metallurgy course or two while getting certified for MIG And TIG welding !

chris in va · February 2, 2013, 05:00 PM

You won't notice a bit of difference when actually firing the pistol.

geetarman · February 3, 2013, 11:00 AM

Quote:

I heard it is common to use a different alloy of stainless with slide in match with the frame

Don't know if it was the particular type of stainless steel that was first used with guns but the quickest way to put something together that would have to eloxed out was to use the same heat treatment screw in the same heat treatment threaded hole.

Even in the last few years we had an issue with nuts and bolts for the Apache AH64 where the nut would spin on hand tight and have to be cut away.

All the individual characteristics for pitch diameter, major and minor diameter and lead would be in spec and the parts would assemble. You just could not get them apart. The problem was traced to improper heat treatment of the mating parts.

RC20 · February 3, 2013, 09:13 PM

I have run into that with the old Model 1917 rifles vs the 1903

The used a Nickle steel receiver and bolt in that case of the 1917. While they are great guns, they indeed are sticky and lube does not help (even synthetic)

the 1903s are silk smooth on comparison. The metals do make a difference.

Enough to be a problem? Probably not, but as much as I like the 1917s when you cycle a 1903 its very obvious and I can appreciate someone wanting that silk smooth feel.

I think stainless get overdone, sort of a broad brush for the relatively
few that really need it.

My folks kept their carbon steel guns rust free in South East Alaska when I was a kid and thats a Norther Rain Forrest down there!

February 2, 2013, 10:06 AM	#1
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 604	I wish Sig made more carbon steel framed semi auto pistols ! I just feel carbon steel has a more fluidly smooth action over the stainless pistols I own like my P220 Elite which is a great pistol for sure and yes , I'm using the recommended lube ! I know they make the P210 in carbon steel but would like to see carbon steel models at about half that price ! Other makes as well , like S&W bringing back the model 952 in carbon steel as an example ! I know stainless is nice for being more rust resistant in certain conditions but a few carbon steel models I'm sure would be popular ! I wouldn't hesitate to grab a Sig P220 in full carbon steel if it ever was produced ! Last edited by WIN1886; February 2, 2013 at 10:15 AM.

February 2, 2013, 10:29 AM	#2
Skadoosh Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2010 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,016	...my aluminum frame/stainless steel slide Sig P226 has a buttery smooth action. It is so smooth that it feels like it's on ball bearings. __________________ NRA Life Member USN Retired

February 2, 2013, 10:55 AM	#3
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,212	Explain to me again what the frame material has to do with the smoothness of the action? __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

February 2, 2013, 11:03 AM	#4
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 604	So why does my carbon steel Browning Hi Power feel way more fluid between the slide and frame than both of my stainless steel .45 auto's ? This is what Ive noticed especially after they get warm from use and I have even noticed it on revolvers when they get hot from lots of shooting ! This is not to say I don't like my stainless pistols...in fact , I bought them for the more rust resistant properties over carbon steel ! Regardless , I wish they produced at least some carbon steel framed models for the few of us that would appreciate the effort , thanks !

February 2, 2013, 01:49 PM	#6
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 604	Even with today's stainless alloys , carbon steel has less of a friction coefficient than stainless.......I heard it is common to use a different alloy of stainless with slide in match with the frame ! The frame on my P220 looks just a tad different in finish than the slide....try running a stainless pistol with dry lube in comparison to a carbon steel pistol sometime ! I will always run a stainless with the Sig recommended wet lube and yes, it runs and hold up just fine if maintained properly ! The point is for my own preference I wish Sig offered a carbon steel version of the P220 and other models and just maybe a few others would want one as well ! They most likely won't because they have no trouble selling the models they already produce ! For those that like aluminum alloy frames, if I had to carry the pistol everyday I most likely would go with that option as well ! I have felt the difference in other carbon steel pistols other than my BHP so that was just an example.....I already know Sig makes great stainless pistols but if they made a carbon steel framed P220 I'd buy it in a heartbeat ! If there is an actual gunsmith that can persuade me different that knows a few things about metallurgy then fine....I've heard it does make a difference and I've felt the difference and I'm just a regular joe that likes to shoot !

February 2, 2013, 02:11 PM	#8
WIN1886 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 604	Mkay , I will.....and yes , I've been told this when I took a metallurgy course or two while getting certified for MIG And TIG welding !

February 2, 2013, 05:00 PM	#9
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	You won't notice a bit of difference when actually firing the pistol.

February 3, 2013, 09:13 PM	#11
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I have run into that with the old Model 1917 rifles vs the 1903 The used a Nickle steel receiver and bolt in that case of the 1917. While they are great guns, they indeed are sticky and lube does not help (even synthetic) the 1903s are silk smooth on comparison. The metals do make a difference. Enough to be a problem? Probably not, but as much as I like the 1917s when you cycle a 1903 its very obvious and I can appreciate someone wanting that silk smooth feel. I think stainless get overdone, sort of a broad brush for the relatively few that really need it. My folks kept their carbon steel guns rust free in South East Alaska when I was a kid and thats a Norther Rain Forrest down there!