Why is shooting with support finger on trigger guard frowned upon?

SPUSCG · January 17, 2011, 12:48 PM

Seems all the internet "experts" hate this and say its stupid. I tried it just for kicks at the range but noticed it actually made me shoot more on center and tighten groups. It didnt reduce recoil for me but made the gun more stable in hands. So i gotta say it works for me and I dont see disadvantages, so why the haters?

presspics · January 17, 2011, 01:01 PM

There are a lot of armchair gun experts out there. The fact is that it was a fad back in the 80's and that's why so many manufacturers started putting serrations on the front of the trigger guards. There is nothing inherently wrong with that type of grip. It really depends on the size of your hands and the size and type of pistol. For some people it works wonderfully with certain guns. For others it doesn't work at all.

Right now the current fad is a "thumbs forward" hold. Many say that it gives the best recoil control and best accuracy. For me it puts my left hand in an uncomfortable position. Everyone is different, there is nothing wrong with trying different gripping methods. Just settle on what works best for you. The targets and the bad guy aren't going to care what kind of grip you were using..

Amin Parker · January 17, 2011, 01:04 PM

I agree, too many armchair experts out there offering advice. Do what works for u

dahermit · January 17, 2011, 01:04 PM

There are things that come and go in the shooting community. For awhile, it was considered correct form to have the index finger on the front of the trigger guard while shooting. It was fashionable to the point where it was common to customize handguns by flattening and checkering the front of the trigger guard. However, as you have observed, that fashion has ended and it is considered improver form.
Similarly, cross-draw was all the rage in certain pistol competitions. And now, strong side is the accepted norm. And then there was the idiotic FBI left-arm-held-in-a-"V" across one's chest, shoot one-handed stance that predated the Weaver and the Isosceles stance.
One would hope that body piercing and tattoos would so become out-of-fashion very soon also.

vladan · January 17, 2011, 01:20 PM

Every one is different and need slightly different hold. if that is what works for you, go for it ... Correct hold is the one that enables you to control the gun and put the rounds in target. Spend less time reading internet gurus opinions and more time on the range and you'll do just fine.

SPUSCG · January 17, 2011, 01:25 PM

I have fairly big hands and never liked subcompacts, noticed this hold allows my support hand to ride higher which helps on the short grips. How do the gun fads start? People just watch competitors copy them and bash everything else?

mete · January 17, 2011, 01:30 PM

The problem is that it requires control of an additional set of muscles ! Yes it was a fad and like most fads it eventually dies out because it doesn't work.

pgdion · January 17, 2011, 01:36 PM

I was going to mention the same thing, if this is so bad then why do several manufacturers put the serrations on the trigger guard. Depends on which gun but I like them on my 92 and Cougar. Feels good and very good control with them there. I always put my finger on the trigger guard when shooting these guns two handed.

Falcon642 · January 17, 2011, 01:40 PM

I hold my Beretta 96 this way, with the index finger of my left hand on the front of the trigger guard. For me, such a hold improves my natural point. If I have my left finger on the front of the trigger guard I naturally point on target. If my index finger is not on the front of the trigger guard I naturally point to the right of the target.

Whatever works and is consistently repeatable. Shooting motto to live by.

SPUSCG · January 17, 2011, 01:50 PM

Sound like me Falcon, i was shooting Right with almost any gun until i tried this.

David the Gnome · January 17, 2011, 01:56 PM

Jeff Quinn is really fond of the using a finger on the front of the trigger guard. If you watch a couple of his videos and pay attention to that finger when he's shooting you'll see why it's not really very good for your form. On every shot his finger will come completely off the trigger guard, negating whatever extra control it might have given you. You can see what I'm talking about in his PM9 review below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LFpN...eature=related

I'd rather have that finger holding on to the grip where it can provide some real support during firing instead of it just getting ripped off the front of the trigger guard after every shot, requiring me to re-acquire my grip.

SPUSCG · January 17, 2011, 02:00 PM

Im pretty sure a pm9 kicks wayyyy harder than full size service autos.

Cornhusker77 · January 17, 2011, 02:05 PM

I use that grip on certain pistols, but I did notice one bad thing about it.
If you get used to it, you might try it with a revolver without thinking, and that can lay a big time hurting on you.

labhound · January 17, 2011, 02:15 PM

I prefer to shoot thumbs forward with my offhand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. It improves my shooting accuracy with my Stoeger Cougars and my Beretta 92FS. You have to find what works best for you and the gun you're shooting because what really matters is putting the bullets on target.

SPUSCG · January 17, 2011, 02:46 PM

I can see how it would be dangerous to grip front of frame on revovlers, but not front of guard. Its well below cylinder. I only shoot this way with autos but still, how would it be dangerous on wheelgun? I even saw a russian revovler with a squared trigger guard called the nosorog.

Walt Sherrill · January 17, 2011, 03:36 PM

If you use the Isoceles stance and related grip, with the gun centered or balanced between the palms of your hands, the gun seems to naturally stay "centered" in your grip with the fingers of the off-hand not extended to engage the front of the grip. (This method of holding the gun requires a firm grip but does not require heavy tension.)

If you use the Weaver Stance this is arguably much less of an issue, as that grip requires a firm grip and tension.

That may have something to do with it.

Good shooters can shoot well, either way -- and one good shooter -- Angus Hobdell of Team CZ -- uses the Isoceles stance and grip but lets his off-hand fingers grasp the front of the grip. Angus says he gets a lot of flak and questions about his approach, but it's clear that he regularly outshoots many (if not most) of his critics and questioners. He does what works for him.

geetarman · January 17, 2011, 04:37 PM

Walt,

I have met Angus Hobdell and there is no question he can shoot. His stance is not what I expect to see. There are a couple of CZ team members who shoot regularly at Rio Salado and Angus, to my knowledge, is the only one who grips the gun like that.

They all do what works for them. It is really something to watch them work.

I think they have 4 Dillon automatic presses down at the custom shop and the day I met Angus, they were ALL running. They must burn through a LOT!!

Geetarman

Magyar · January 17, 2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

was going to mention the same thing, if this is so bad then why do several manufacturers put the serrations on the trigger guard.

One reason is the Golden Rule of not placing your finger on the trigger until you are about to fire. The serrations will keep a firm hold on your finger while it waits.... But also, there are still many pistoleros that use the front side trigger guard for firing. There were many good ones, including Bianchi Cup winners, IIRC; Mickey Fowler was one...

Jack Bauer · January 17, 2011, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Right now the current fad is a "thumbs forward" hold. Many say that it gives the best recoil control and best accuracy. For me it puts my left hand in an uncomfortable position.

I'm right there with you...when I try thumbs forward I can't hit the side of a barn from inside.

I agree with others here...do what's best for you....

sirsloop · January 17, 2011, 11:50 PM

Hold it any way you want... if you find you are more accurate to hell with "the book".

cougar gt-e · January 18, 2011, 12:08 AM

Don't forget that grip technique changes for individuals too as their experience level and physical condition changes. Don't stay in a rut, change things up and see what works. Just because it wasn't as good 5 years ago, doesn't mean it won't be better now. (no matter what "it" is).

**Tom Servo** · January 18, 2011, 12:46 AM

Quote:

no matter what "it" is

I used to be with it, then they changed what it was. Now what I'm with, isn't it and what's it seems weird.

Things change. When I was coming up, folks got yelled at for having any fingers ahead of the trigger guard. It was considered a safety issue. In addition to that, if I grip the gun that way, my weak-hand grip feels strained.

It doesn't seem to be a safety concern anymore, but I'm curious as to how steady it is during long courses of fire compared to an "all fingers on the grip" hold.

Wildalaska · January 18, 2011, 12:57 AM

SPUSCG · January 18, 2011, 07:01 PM

Whats a good grip tape to alter rounded trigger guards and help shoot like this?

SIGSHR · January 18, 2011, 07:27 PM

I shot some IPSC in the 1970s, the "finger forward" hold was the fashion, having a squared off front of the trigger guard was very "in". Never caught on for revolvers AFAIK.

January 17, 2011, 12:48 PM	#1
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Why is shooting with support finger on trigger guard frowned upon? Seems all the internet "experts" hate this and say its stupid. I tried it just for kicks at the range but noticed it actually made me shoot more on center and tighten groups. It didnt reduce recoil for me but made the gun more stable in hands. So i gotta say it works for me and I dont see disadvantages, so why the haters? __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 17, 2011, 01:01 PM	#2
presspics Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 343	There are a lot of armchair gun experts out there. The fact is that it was a fad back in the 80's and that's why so many manufacturers started putting serrations on the front of the trigger guards. There is nothing inherently wrong with that type of grip. It really depends on the size of your hands and the size and type of pistol. For some people it works wonderfully with certain guns. For others it doesn't work at all. Right now the current fad is a "thumbs forward" hold. Many say that it gives the best recoil control and best accuracy. For me it puts my left hand in an uncomfortable position. Everyone is different, there is nothing wrong with trying different gripping methods. Just settle on what works best for you. The targets and the bad guy aren't going to care what kind of grip you were using.. __________________ "Quid Clarius Astris"

January 17, 2011, 01:25 PM	#6
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	I have fairly big hands and never liked subcompacts, noticed this hold allows my support hand to ride higher which helps on the short grips. How do the gun fads start? People just watch competitors copy them and bash everything else? __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 17, 2011, 01:30 PM	#7
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	The problem is that it requires control of an additional set of muscles ! Yes it was a fad and like most fads it eventually dies out because it doesn't work. __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 17, 2011, 01:36 PM	#8
pgdion Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 2010 Location: MPLS, MN Posts: 1,214	I was going to mention the same thing, if this is so bad then why do several manufacturers put the serrations on the trigger guard. Depends on which gun but I like them on my 92 and Cougar. Feels good and very good control with them there. I always put my finger on the trigger guard when shooting these guns two handed. __________________ 597 VTR, because there's so many cans and so little time!

January 17, 2011, 01:04 PM	#3
Amin Parker Senior Member Join Date: August 19, 2010 Posts: 1,118	I agree, too many armchair experts out there offering advice. Do what works for u

January 17, 2011, 01:04 PM	#4
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	There are things that come and go in the shooting community. For awhile, it was considered correct form to have the index finger on the front of the trigger guard while shooting. It was fashionable to the point where it was common to customize handguns by flattening and checkering the front of the trigger guard. However, as you have observed, that fashion has ended and it is considered improver form. Similarly, cross-draw was all the rage in certain pistol competitions. And now, strong side is the accepted norm. And then there was the idiotic FBI left-arm-held-in-a-"V" across one's chest, shoot one-handed stance that predated the Weaver and the Isosceles stance. One would hope that body piercing and tattoos would so become out-of-fashion very soon also.

January 17, 2011, 01:20 PM	#5
vladan Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Central Florida Posts: 813	Every one is different and need slightly different hold. if that is what works for you, go for it ... Correct hold is the one that enables you to control the gun and put the rounds in target. Spend less time reading internet gurus opinions and more time on the range and you'll do just fine.

January 17, 2011, 01:40 PM	#9
Falcon642 Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 2010 Posts: 316	I hold my Beretta 96 this way, with the index finger of my left hand on the front of the trigger guard. For me, such a hold improves my natural point. If I have my left finger on the front of the trigger guard I naturally point on target. If my index finger is not on the front of the trigger guard I naturally point to the right of the target. Whatever works and is consistently repeatable. Shooting motto to live by.

January 17, 2011, 01:50 PM	#10
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Sound like me Falcon, i was shooting Right with almost any gun until i tried this. __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 17, 2011, 01:56 PM	#11
David the Gnome Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,092	Jeff Quinn is really fond of the using a finger on the front of the trigger guard. If you watch a couple of his videos and pay attention to that finger when he's shooting you'll see why it's not really very good for your form. On every shot his finger will come completely off the trigger guard, negating whatever extra control it might have given you. You can see what I'm talking about in his PM9 review below: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LFpN...eature=related I'd rather have that finger holding on to the grip where it can provide some real support during firing instead of it just getting ripped off the front of the trigger guard after every shot, requiring me to re-acquire my grip. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum.

January 17, 2011, 02:00 PM	#12
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Im pretty sure a pm9 kicks wayyyy harder than full size service autos. __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 17, 2011, 02:05 PM	#13
Cornhusker77 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2009 Posts: 219	I use that grip on certain pistols, but I did notice one bad thing about it. If you get used to it, you might try it with a revolver without thinking, and that can lay a big time hurting on you.

January 17, 2011, 02:15 PM	#14
labhound Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2010 Posts: 363	I prefer to shoot thumbs forward with my offhand index finger on the front of the trigger guard. It improves my shooting accuracy with my Stoeger Cougars and my Beretta 92FS. You have to find what works best for you and the gun you're shooting because what really matters is putting the bullets on target.

January 17, 2011, 02:46 PM	#15
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	I can see how it would be dangerous to grip front of frame on revovlers, but not front of guard. Its well below cylinder. I only shoot this way with autos but still, how would it be dangerous on wheelgun? I even saw a russian revovler with a squared trigger guard called the nosorog. __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 17, 2011, 03:36 PM	#16
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	If you use the Isoceles stance and related grip, with the gun centered or balanced between the palms of your hands, the gun seems to naturally stay "centered" in your grip with the fingers of the off-hand not extended to engage the front of the grip. (This method of holding the gun requires a firm grip but does not require heavy tension.) If you use the Weaver Stance this is arguably much less of an issue, as that grip requires a firm grip and tension. That may have something to do with it. Good shooters can shoot well, either way -- and one good shooter -- Angus Hobdell of Team CZ -- uses the Isoceles stance and grip but lets his off-hand fingers grasp the front of the grip. Angus says he gets a lot of flak and questions about his approach, but it's clear that he regularly outshoots many (if not most) of his critics and questioners. He does what works for him. Last edited by Walt Sherrill; January 17, 2011 at 03:59 PM.

January 17, 2011, 04:37 PM	#17
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	Walt, I have met Angus Hobdell and there is no question he can shoot. His stance is not what I expect to see. There are a couple of CZ team members who shoot regularly at Rio Salado and Angus, to my knowledge, is the only one who grips the gun like that. They all do what works for them. It is really something to watch them work. I think they have 4 Dillon automatic presses down at the custom shop and the day I met Angus, they were ALL running. They must burn through a LOT!! Geetarman

January 17, 2011, 11:50 PM	#20
sirsloop Junior member Join Date: January 13, 2011 Posts: 376	Hold it any way you want... if you find you are more accurate to hell with "the book".

January 18, 2011, 12:08 AM	#21
cougar gt-e Senior Member Join Date: July 25, 2009 Posts: 1,003	Don't forget that grip technique changes for individuals too as their experience level and physical condition changes. Don't stay in a rut, change things up and see what works. Just because it wasn't as good 5 years ago, doesn't mean it won't be better now. (no matter what "it" is).

January 18, 2011, 12:57 AM	#23
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Been shooting that way for years and can still outshoot many folks. WildnoneedtochangeAlaska ™©2002-2010

January 18, 2011, 07:01 PM	#24
SPUSCG Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2008 Posts: 3,004	Whats a good grip tape to alter rounded trigger guards and help shoot like this? __________________ Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.

January 18, 2011, 07:27 PM	#25
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I shot some IPSC in the 1970s, the "finger forward" hold was the fashion, having a squared off front of the trigger guard was very "in". Never caught on for revolvers AFAIK.