230gn LRN with Clays, Unique, or Universal?

DBAR · January 22, 2010, 12:06 PM

I have some 230gn LRN, "Softballs" from Missouri Bullet, and these bullets like it a little hotter so there's less leading. Lead loading people will know what I talking about here, but that's another topic.

**Let's just call Universal, Universal in this thread since I'm also using Clays**

I have some Clays, Unique, and some Universal. I'd like to get some input from you guys that have had experience with these powders. I'm going to want to load these closer to the max for a little hotter load. I like practical shooting, so I'm no worried about recoil. Not to mention that the lead bullets I'm using has a brinell of 18, so I need a little higher pressure for the bullet to obturate.

Which of these powders would you guys recommend for what I'm trying to accomplish, and what are some loads that have worked for you?

Thanks,
DBAR

PS: I don’t have a chronograph yet….

PaulTX · January 22, 2010, 12:30 PM

I would think about 6.2 grs of Unique would be nice.

Paul

**Unclenick** · January 22, 2010, 03:46 PM

Universal is very close to Unique in burning rate. Just a fraction faster, and it burns much cleaner and meters much more uniformly from a measure, so I would choose it over Unique for near-max loads just for that reason. Usually, you can just knock about 5% off a Unique load for .45 ACP and get to a Universal load. Seating the bullet to roughly 1.260" to 1.270" COL, start with about 5.0 grains and work up toward 5.5 grains of Universal. 5.1 grains gives roughly commercial hardball ballistics, about 830 fps and 350 ft-lb, and 5.5 will approximate military hardball, 880 fps and 395 ft-lb.

Clays is much faster and you use much less to achieve the same pressure. If you want a lighter load and less recoil, but still need equal peak pressure to bump your bullet up to obturate the bore, then this is your candidate. Its main drawback is the smaller charge makes it easier for the reloader to fail to notice a double-charge, and the very high speed means all the gas is made before the bullet moves very far. For that reason, peak pressure is reached with too little gas to get to full power velocities at a safe pressure. 3.1 grains will give you about the same peak pressure as 5.0 grains of Universal, but only gets 700 fps and 255 ft-lbs. 3.5 grains will give you just over the same pressure as 5.5 grains of Universal, but you get only 760 fps and about 295 ft-lbs. Clays is for light target loads with these bullets.

dwhite · January 22, 2010, 03:49 PM

I don't have a .45 but I use Universal in .40 with good results. It's clean, though not as clean as Clays. Universal meters very consistently. It's also a LOT cleaner than Unique with about the same useful caliber and power level range.

Did I mention it's clean?

All the Best,
D. White

Scorch · January 22, 2010, 03:59 PM

I load Unique for everyhting, I really like it. And the flame temp is low so you don't gas cut your bullets.

reloader28 · January 22, 2010, 08:05 PM

I use Unique sometimes and like it.
Usually I load 4.2grs Clays with the 225gr LRN (same load for 4 different guns) and they all shoot very well.

DBAR · January 22, 2010, 11:30 PM

It sounds like Universal, and Unique have more to offer for what I'm looking to get out of a powder.

It sounds like Clays is not the powder I'd hoped it to be. I really liked Bullseye, but the burn rate of Clays seems to be a little too fast.

Thanks for all the tips guys,
DBAR

jfrey · January 23, 2010, 12:53 AM

Like PaulTX said: try 6.2 gr. Unique. I use Unique in all my 9mm and .45 loads and it works great.

dwhite · January 23, 2010, 02:15 PM

I've been running Clays in some 40 loads but the pressure curve has started to bother me. I reserve it now for 38 Special target loads. It doesn't seem to be terribly position sensitive. The pound I have was given to me by someone who got it instead of Universal. This is a powder I would probably have never bought.

Clays actually measures very consistently through my Lee Perfect Powder Measure down to 3.0 grains. It's slightly bulky so you get a good fill level in the case. The metering consistency really surprised me as it was so flaky.

All the best,
D. White

mustang66maniac · January 24, 2010, 12:26 PM

I use 5.5gr of Universal with my 230gr LRN at 1.25" OAL, supossedly @860fps.
It works pretty well, feels like a factory full load, burns clean, not too smokey.

Edward429451 · January 24, 2010, 01:01 PM

6.2 gr Unique will get you where you want to be.

January 22, 2010, 12:06 PM	#1
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	230gn LRN with Clays, Unique, or Universal? I have some 230gn LRN, "Softballs" from Missouri Bullet, and these bullets like it a little hotter so there's less leading. Lead loading people will know what I talking about here, but that's another topic. Let's just call Universal, Universal in this thread since I'm also using Clays I have some Clays, Unique, and some Universal. I'd like to get some input from you guys that have had experience with these powders. I'm going to want to load these closer to the max for a little hotter load. I like practical shooting, so I'm no worried about recoil. Not to mention that the lead bullets I'm using has a brinell of 18, so I need a little higher pressure for the bullet to obturate. Which of these powders would you guys recommend for what I'm trying to accomplish, and what are some loads that have worked for you? Thanks, DBAR PS: I don’t have a chronograph yet….

January 22, 2010, 03:46 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,060	Universal is very close to Unique in burning rate. Just a fraction faster, and it burns much cleaner and meters much more uniformly from a measure, so I would choose it over Unique for near-max loads just for that reason. Usually, you can just knock about 5% off a Unique load for .45 ACP and get to a Universal load. Seating the bullet to roughly 1.260" to 1.270" COL, start with about 5.0 grains and work up toward 5.5 grains of Universal. 5.1 grains gives roughly commercial hardball ballistics, about 830 fps and 350 ft-lb, and 5.5 will approximate military hardball, 880 fps and 395 ft-lb. Clays is much faster and you use much less to achieve the same pressure. If you want a lighter load and less recoil, but still need equal peak pressure to bump your bullet up to obturate the bore, then this is your candidate. Its main drawback is the smaller charge makes it easier for the reloader to fail to notice a double-charge, and the very high speed means all the gas is made before the bullet moves very far. For that reason, peak pressure is reached with too little gas to get to full power velocities at a safe pressure. 3.1 grains will give you about the same peak pressure as 5.0 grains of Universal, but only gets 700 fps and 255 ft-lbs. 3.5 grains will give you just over the same pressure as 5.5 grains of Universal, but you get only 760 fps and about 295 ft-lbs. Clays is for light target loads with these bullets. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 22, 2010, 03:59 PM	#5
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I load Unique for everyhting, I really like it. And the flame temp is low so you don't gas cut your bullets. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

January 24, 2010, 12:26 PM	#10
mustang66maniac Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2008 Location: Sac, CA Posts: 143	I use 5.5gr of Universal with my 230gr LRN at 1.25" OAL, supossedly @860fps. It works pretty well, feels like a factory full load, burns clean, not too smokey. __________________ "aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines" -Enzo Ferrari

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

January 22, 2010, 12:30 PM	#2
PaulTX Senior Member Join Date: March 9, 1999 Location: Denton, TX Posts: 107	I would think about 6.2 grs of Unique would be nice. Paul

January 22, 2010, 03:49 PM	#4
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	I don't have a .45 but I use Universal in .40 with good results. It's clean, though not as clean as Clays. Universal meters very consistently. It's also a LOT cleaner than Unique with about the same useful caliber and power level range. Did I mention it's clean? All the Best, D. White

January 22, 2010, 08:05 PM	#6
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I use Unique sometimes and like it. Usually I load 4.2grs Clays with the 225gr LRN (same load for 4 different guns) and they all shoot very well.

January 22, 2010, 11:30 PM	#7
DBAR Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 941	It sounds like Universal, and Unique have more to offer for what I'm looking to get out of a powder. It sounds like Clays is not the powder I'd hoped it to be. I really liked Bullseye, but the burn rate of Clays seems to be a little too fast. Thanks for all the tips guys, DBAR

January 23, 2010, 12:53 AM	#8
jfrey Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Location: Coastal South Texas Posts: 557	Like PaulTX said: try 6.2 gr. Unique. I use Unique in all my 9mm and .45 loads and it works great.

January 23, 2010, 02:15 PM	#9
dwhite Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2007 Location: Wake County, N. Carolina Posts: 379	I've been running Clays in some 40 loads but the pressure curve has started to bother me. I reserve it now for 38 Special target loads. It doesn't seem to be terribly position sensitive. The pound I have was given to me by someone who got it instead of Universal. This is a powder I would probably have never bought. Clays actually measures very consistently through my Lee Perfect Powder Measure down to 3.0 grains. It's slightly bulky so you get a good fill level in the case. The metering consistency really surprised me as it was so flaky. All the best, D. White

January 24, 2010, 01:01 PM	#11
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	6.2 gr Unique will get you where you want to be.