Suggestions to restore finish

[SGT.B]

My very first firearm has lost some blue on the barrel and a small spot on the cylinder. Where would the best place be to have the finish repaired? Cost is also a factor. Thanks!

[Snyper]

A good rebluing will not be cheap, and a cheap rebluing will not be good.

If the gun has any collector value, you will lose half by rebluing.

If it's just a shooter, I'd touch it up with some cold blue and learn to live with it's "character marks"

[SGT.B]

Colt Python 6 inch. I plan to pass this down one day. Worth a good reblue?

[Jim Watson]

A first class reblue by restorer or factory would cost hundreds of bucks.

How did it "lose" its blue? Holster wear, rust, or?

I feel no urge to have my well worn Pythons reblued. Neither is stock anyhow.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

A rule of thumb is to not blue anything over NRA good condition, on antique firearms, as it will lose value. If it is good to poor condition, it can increase it's value, but over that, it can decrease it, unless it was to be professionally hand restored, which really does cost a lot. However, a Python is worth a good bit, as you probably know already, and since it has been a while since it was made, I would say it would be classified an antique now.

Grades for antique firearms:

Factory New: A “factory new” antique gun is as pristine as it was when it left the factory. It has all of its original parts and finish.

Excellent: An “excellent” antique firearm also has all of its original parts and at least 80% of its original finish. Aside from some finish wear, it is in flawless condition.

Fine: A firearm giving a rating of “fine” has all of its original parts and at least 30% of its original finish. It may have surface scratches on the wood.

Very Good: A “very good” rating indicates that the gun has all of its original parts but less than 30% of its original finish and the wood may show some wear. An antique gun with a rating of “very good” or less is not graded on its bore.

Good: A “good” antique weapon may have had some minor parts replaced and the wood may be scratched or refinished. Any lettering is still legible and the gun will be in proper working order.

Fair: A “fair” gun may have had some major parts replaced and may still need some minor maintenance. If the gun is not currently in working order, it must be easily repaired to still fit into this grade.

Poor: An antique gun in “poor” condition may need a significant amount of work to restore it and is likely not in working condition.

Last, there is a different grading scale on 'modern' firearms.

Update: change classified an antique to graded an antique in the first paragraph.

[Snyper]

since it has been a while since it was made, I would say it would be classified an antique now.

Normally "antique" means at least 100 years old
A Python might be "collectable" but it's not an "antique"

The main exception to the rule is that cars are considered "antique" at 25 years old

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

The reason I would grade it with the antique scale, though in reality, its not, is the increased price due to the collectivity, and the stop of manufacturer in 1999. The antique grading scale fits it more, now, due to this, even though it may not fall under a 100 year antique rule, the same as with many other guns of the 20th century.

A NRA "good" and under, for modern firearms, will show it too low in the list and it would be refinishable, and not lose any money over its collectible value.

NRA Modern grading:

Good: A rating of “good” indicates that the gun is in proper working condition but may show signs of wear.

Fair: A “fair” firearm is also in safe working condition but may require some minor maintenance.

If a small amount of bluing is missing, 30% or less, I would not rate it as good under modern grading, but as excellent to fine under the so-called antique grading system, because refinishing a Colt Python, with 80% finish, and in working order, will surely decrease its value, or will the way they sell around here. Saying it is modern-good, would mean it would not lose value over general refinishing. The only thing for it, would then be restoration, or hand refinishing, which is very expensive.

[Jim Watson]

A firearm is an antique under federal law if made before 1899.
Commonly referred to as "pre 1898" the definition is one made before the END of 1898.
A firearm is a curio or relic for purchase under a C&R collector's license if over 50 years old.

A collector here once pointed out that a gun with new factory refinish has Zero percent original finish and paid little attention to such.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Jim, I think they should have had the date sliding on that, gaining each year, to keep it at the same time span, but that is what is called antique under the law.

Some collectors are different than others, though, and some shops different on how they grade, but it was the way I was taught to do it on certain firearms, that the NRA modern grading system just don't match. Even appraisers will do it differently. I don't know why the NRA came up with the two grading systems, as it does nothing but complicate things, but every price guide uses the NRA system, pretty much. However, it's really how the potential buyer will grade it. I know I have talked several people out of refinishing guns, losing money, but I don't like to see people make a mistake, and ruin the worth of a gun, if they ever intend on letting it go, or keeping it for their collections.

[SGT.B]

According to the scale above I would Rate it as "Good". Unfortunately moisture was the culprit but it was caught soon enough for it not to rust. Just lost the blue at the end of the barrel and 2x4mm spot on the cylinder. It just makes me sick to look at it. I would be willing to spend hundreds to get it looking good again. I took it to a local gun shop a couple of years ago and they recommended not doing anything to it.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

SGT.B,

I'm not sure which good you're speaking of, as one is different than the other a by good amount.

Anyhow, to get a finish that is as good as one can get, it really needs restored, and not a general gunsmith refinish. Doug Turnbull does this, along with a few others, and it is expensive. You could contact him for an estimate, and explain what shape its in, even send some photos to get an estimate.

His website:

Turnbull Manufacturing

I just had a look at Guns America, and the least expensive, was a re-blued 6 inch, that was at $1999.99, and the rest were on up in price.

[SGT.B]

Thanks Dixie! I will contact him.

[James K]

Just about any restoration, even by someone as good as Turnbull, can and will be detectable by anyone who knows what he is looking at. I will join others who recommend the gun be left alone.

Jim

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

Oh, most assuredly, you can tell its refinished, like you say, even the very best. I could not find one that would match his on Guns America, but the one I mentioned, was factory reblued, and they were asking $1999.00 for it, with the others skyrockting on up. I would say, if it isn't that bad, with no pitting, and just some blue gone, I would still rank it at Fine, and that would be worth a pretty good amount of money. I would not blue it, and turn the work away, myself, unless they wanted it for sentimentality, and I gave them fair warning on how much it would most likely drop its value.

Refinishing, when done right, can bring any gun back to looking new, and it is a shame that they derate the value as much as they do over this, to be honest, but they do, and is why I use the scale as a cut off. I think some fear what kind of shape the gun was in beforehand, or something, and it stigmatizes it, when it really is in great operating shape after it is finished.

Now, after that being said, I have bought several guns, in fair to poor+ condition, refinished and repaired them, and almost doubled, in some cases, my money on a resale, but the cost of the bluing/repair and the worth of the gun starts going in the opposite direction at a point.

[NateM]

Hi, I am fairly new to shooting, but my grandfather passed down a 1970's vintage High Standard K121. The bluing was well worn and rust was starting to set in. I bought a $25.00 re-bluing kit... After seeing the results I would rather spend $250 for a professional to refinish my gun.

[Garycw]

I like to just clean, oil, lube and call it good. Guns that show character appeal to me more than the squeaky clean pristine look, especially very old guns over 50 yrs. +

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

The old Flite Kings are pretty good shotguns, and had some innovations that others did not have, like a round bolt lock, which made it much easier to manufacture.

The way I see it, especially for the sportsman, is that when he/she gets a good working gun that they like, which they want to keep, and it gets wear from each years use in hunting, etc, then at some point, I think it is worth it to refinish it in order to keep the gun up, the same as any gun maintenance. The Flite King, and similar guns, can do with a general refinish, maybe what I call a hunters finish, which isn't as reflective as one finished at 400+ grit, and not have a big expense in it, maybe costing no more than $200.00. Even though the extra cost, on top of what the gun cost, might never be recovered, it is still taking care of a gun to keep. These, I wouldn't recommend restoration on, but general refinishing to stop rust turning into pitting, etc., and because the customer simply wants the new finish. Though, I tell them that it will still decrease any value, but generally these types of guns bring around $300 to $400, and its really putting money into as maintenance. Expensive, collectible guns, are a different matter.

[James K]

There are those who argue that honest wear in the hunting field or in other honorable use is preferable to a pristine appearance, since it shows "character", if a gun can have that attribute. Those folks might have a point, but few collectors and no collector publications seem to agree, considering condition to be all important in determining collectibility and value.

The result is that restotation is seldom a matter of just improving the appearance; it is almost always thought of as making a gun more valuable. It rarely does that unless the gun was in pretty sad shape.

Jim

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

It rarely does that unless the gun was in pretty sad shape.

Jim, that is exactly why I use the last two grades as a cut-off, as those are generally sad to really sad shape. Here, we're talking guns with practically no blue, pitting, bad stocks and forearms, even missing parts. In other words, one is making a silk purse from a sows ear. Some of these, though, you couldn't make money on, as you would have too much expense in them, so they are junkable for parts.

I purchased a 1897 Winchester once, hardly any blue, some pitting on the outside, but a good bore, and the wood was dinged, but not split. It was missing the ejector, it's screw, and another part, I can't remember, maybe the firing pin. Anyhow, I bought it for $150.00, and sold it for $400.00 after it was all said and done.

Anyhow, and this is a possibility for any refinisher, is getting sued for not informing a customer that they most likely will be devaluing a gun. If one took in a gun, and excepted the job with not informing the owner about devaluation, while knowing it would devalue it, and after all was said and done, the owner found out, then one might be held liable for the difference. I have seen too many people that will sue over $20.00, to ever trust in they won't do it. In some guns, this could be a devaluation of over $1000.00+ dollars. Now, whether they would win a suit is another thing, but it will still cost the refinisher in the end. So, its best to always state this, if it will do it.

[triggerman770]

you might use Colt to refinish, as they could probably get it closer to original.
there was a saying about the python. " when most guns were shipping, pythons were still in polish" That's what made that "Python blue" stand out