CZ 75 grip vs BHP Grip.

[5RWill]

Are the 75 Tactical Sports a rarity? For the price the gun is pretty sensational considering it's built for ISPC. I never see them, hell can't hardly find videos of them. Though i can honestly say if i can get back in to USPSA steadily i'd pick one up.

Also question for the guys having fired both the DA/SA and the SA only C75s. When comparing the SA pull of the DA/SA gun to the SA pull of the SA only gun, does the SA only have less take up/travel?

This might come off as shallow but i love the SP01 rail look or the square look the rail adds. I'm thankful that railroader showed the link of the SA shadow still in stock but if the trigger pull between the two isn't all that much different i'd probably stick with the standard SP01 in 9mm just to save money. Of the only 75 that i've pulled the SA stage felt identical to most striker designs i've pulled. A little takeup then a nice break.

Think i might have found my solution...

[Pilot]

^^^^^That's fantastic. Me want!

[railroader]

If you decide to go with the SP0-1 go with the shadow version. The shadows don't have a firing pin block. If you you use the straight single action trigger you can adjust all the pre and over travel out of the pull. On the B models it's going to have more takeup because the firing pin block lever has to reset. On the link for the Shadow SA pistol I posted, that gun has a trigger that is only adjustable for overtravel. With a straight trigger that gun is really nice. If you are interested in a DA/SA shadow you can put in a short reset disconnector which will remove most of the takeup single action. I have those disconnectors in my SP-01 and standard shadows.

[Walt Sherrill]

Also question for the guys having fired both the DA/SA and the SA only C75s. When comparing the SA pull of the DA/SA gun to the SA pull of the SA only gun, does the SA only have less take up/travel?

The takeup on the SA models can be adjusted out/greatly reduced if you get the two-way adjustable trigger. (A good bit of takeup is required for DA function; that's not necessary with a SAO CZ.)

With the right tuning and after-market parts, the SA trigger can be very close to the best 1911 triggers.

[WVsig]

With the right tuning and after-market parts, the SA trigger can be very close to the best 1911 triggers.

With the right tuning a 75B SAO can be very close to an avg 1911 trigger. Even the best 75B SAO trigger is no where near the "best" 1911 triggers. Completely different design and different outcomes due to the differences.

You can have a great trigger on a 75B DA/SA or a 75B SAO but lets not over state things.

[Walt Sherrill]

Maybe you just haven't been exposed to the very best CZ triggers... Or maybe our appreciation of what comprises a good trigger just differs.

(And your definition and appreciation of an "average" 1911 trigger may differ from mine.)

But, I'll agree -- it's not a 1911 trigger. Neither is a SIG P-210, or P-226 X Five, but they can be very, very good, too. (I've owned and shot both.)

[WVsig]

Maybe you just haven't been exposed to the very best CZ triggers... Or maybe our appreciation of what comprises a good trigger just differs.

(And your definition and appreciation of an "average" 1911 trigger may differ from mine.)

But, I'll agree -- it's not a 1911 trigger. Neither is a SIG P-210, or P-226 X Five, but they can be very, very good, too. (I've owned and shot both.)

I have been exposed to some of the best 75B triggers and some of the best 1911 triggers so no need to attempt to disparage my comments by attacking me not what I said. I know what a good trigger is and own or have owned some of the best, Gray Guns Sigs, custom BHP, CZ Custom 75 etc... but unlike you I did not feel the need to display it in order to have my post taken seriously. LOL

My point is that it is not a proper comparison. They are very different triggers and will have a very different feel. Yes preferences will come into play because there is always a subjective aspect to the any assessment. There is a reason why you compared the best 75 trigger to a 1911. Its because the 1911 is the standard for handgun triggers.

My definition of an avg 1911 trigger is taking a NIB stock Colt 1911 out of the box cleaning up the action a bit with a basic trigger job which can be done by thousands of everyday smiths around the country without replacing any parts. The same process can be done with almost any 1911 even down to something like a RIA although the softer parts there might not hold the trigger job as long.

A high end trigger job on a 1911 is something you would have done by guns like Don Williams, Jim West, Ted Yost, John Harrison, Wilson, Novak etc... where each and every part was fitted properly to the pistol. Or have a pistol built from the ground up by people like Wilson, Les Baer, C&S, Gun Crafter etc...

The second set are when you are talking about the "best" 1911 triggers. Which is why your comments caught my attention. Your statement is IMHO misleading. That was the point of my comment, nothing more.

[Walt Sherrill]

I have been exposed to some of the best 75B triggers and some of the best 1911 triggers so no need to attempt to disparage my comments by attacking me not what I said.

Saying I had OVERSTATED isn't a disparaging remark? (Disparage: to depreciate by indirect means.) I've owned some of those same guns, too. Still have a Gray Guns SIG.

I'll concede that the very best 1911 triggers, from the top custom 1911 makers, are in a class by themselves. But, I really wasn't thinking about $3000 - $5000 guns when I wrote that. I was thinking more about guns a tad less expensive and more commonly owned by folks participating here. My error.

That said, your definition of an average 1911 trigger -- taking a NIB stock Colt 1911 out of the box cleaning up the action a bit with a basic trigger job -- probably isn't what most folks would consider an average 1911 trigger. A Colt, Kimber, Ruger, Remington, Springfield, STI, or SIG, etc., straight out of the box would be what many would consider an average 1911 trigger.

I doubt that most folks reading my words that said "Maybe you just haven't been exposed to the very best CZ triggers... Or maybe our appreciation of what comprises a good trigger just differs" would consider those words a personal attack. I didn't mean to give offense; sorry you felt I did.

[5RWill]

So apparently i didn't realize that there are factory shadows that are regular production guns from CZ then there are the ones coming from the custom shop. Was curious as to how this one was 880$ Seemed like a steal compared to the other shadows.

http://czcustom.com/CZ-75-SP01-SHADOW-PolyCoat-9mm.aspx

Though i imagine sticking with a regular SP01 turning it SA only is what i'd be set on.

[Walt Sherrill]

At one time I was told that the Shadows and several other models were all modified (i.e., made) by the CZ Custom Shop from base guns after they made it to the U.S., and then were put into the distribution channel. And then there were also even more-special models that got EXTRA work. Those have always been on the CZ Custom Shop website.

That was the case several years ago, but things may have changed since then. I think the CZ Custom Shop is a pretty big operation, however.

[5RWill]

That's pretty much the extent of what my friend told me that shoots a shadow. His shooting team is also sponsored by Cz as well. I would probably pay 880$ for an untouched sp01 shadow. Though I'm unsure if just getting a vanilla sp01 and turning it SA only with some trigger tuning wouldn't be cheaper. Plus I'd rather put straight eight sights on it than comp fiber optics since I honestly do not plan to shoot production.

[railroader]

So apparently i didn't realize that there are factory shadows that are regular production guns from CZ then there are the ones coming from the custom shop. Was curious as to how this one was 880$ Seemed like a steal compared to the other shadows.

http://czcustom.com/CZ-75-SP01-SHADOW-PolyCoat-9mm.aspx

Though i imagine sticking with a regular SP01 turning it SA only is what i'd be set on

I have that shadow. The thing with the shadow it has better safeties, sights, a semi competition hammer and no FPB. These are upgrades over a standard SP-01. I also have a tricked out 75sa which shoots great but I wound up adding a couple hundred in parts to get it there and I removed the FPB.

[5RWill]

Wonder if picking up that SP01 shadow and dropping the SA trigger and converting it would be easier than the vanilla sp01? That particular shadow just has the additional upgrades over the regular SP01 right? No actual smithing work such as a better trigger than a regular SP01?

Either way i'm settled between those two. Honestly it will probably come down to availability, leaning towards the shadow, like the idea of the upgrades and 3 mags.

Found people reducing the TS grip to make it similar to a standard 75 grip. Thought this pair was lovely. Open rigged SP01 up top and below a TS that has had the frame reduced and some slide modifications. Should've made a thread titled CZ 75 discussion. I keep trailing off from the original topic lol

[railroader]

If you were to just only convert a Sp-01 shadow and a Sp-01 to SAO the process is the same. The difference when you get done is the shadow will have a better trigger pull. The shadow has a better hammer and you can remove the takeup in the trigger pull with trigger adjustments.

[sirgilligan]

Sorry, late to the thread, but I have to post some photos...











[img][/img]

[sirgilligan]

So i have yet to hold a full size CZ 75. I did hold a compact version which fit my medium sized hands very very well, though it was a little undersized. Also held a full size BHP and it might be the most comfortable handgun i've held to date. More so than a 1911 or an M&P of which i both love the feel.

My question is how much bigger is the full size CZ grip? Anyone that has a BHP and a CZ 75 could you snap a picture to compare?

The CZ 75 is slightly bigger, I could wrap a string around them and measure if you like. My CZ 85B was sold to me by someone with small hands. He had bought it thinking it would work for him, but after 50 rounds he concluded his hands were too small as he had to adjust his grip to operate the safety or slide lock.

My hand, measured from base of palm to tip of longest finger is 8".

Why not get the Browning Hi Power? You have held it and liked it? Just asking.

Let me repeat a story I have told a few times. I have always owned firearms but didn't shoot them much because I couldn't afford it and was working night and day. Well, time passes and I have earned a better salary and I can now get by on 40 hour weeks (but the down side is now I am old enough my eyes are giving me grief) I started shooting more about four years ago. I bought a very popular brand and would shoot it, but the groups were always huge. I just figured I had "lost it" over the years. Finally the firearm was jamming so much and I was so mad that I left the range and went back into the shop. My Dad had raised us on Browning, I still have my first .22LR SA Belgium that my Dad gave me when I was around 8.



I saw two BHP's on the shelf. They had been there for at least a couple of months. I had become friends with the guys there and they looked it up and those two BHPs had been bought to stock the store when they opened and had been there three years. So I traded the jam-o-matic for one on the spot. I lost money and was in "one of those moods" and didn't care. I didn't loose a lot. :-) I took that BHP into the range and first shot was right where I aimed. I paused. I smiled inside and probably outside too. I hadn't lost it, I just didn't remember where I had put it.

The date is wrong on the report, that is the day I went and got out my old targets to log them.



I then took all of the firearms from that "other" manufacturer and traded them off, and I got the other BHP from the shelf in the process. That was literally the happiest firearm day of my life.

Then I read Stephen camp's web pages about BHPs.

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/

I even emailed him some questions and he quickly responded. Shortly there after he passed away. I felt I had lost a friend.

Through his research I learned about the CZ 75 family and when I found one locally I bought it.



I can't say which I like the most, I like the BHPs and the CZ. I shoot the CZ more, but that is because I have become somewhat protective of the beautiful bluing my BHPs have.



As for trigger differences, I don't care if they are different, I only care if the trigger affects my ability to shoot. I can adapt with two or three shots to most any trigger if I put my mind to it.

Good luck with your "hunt". Find a full size and hold it. Buy a BHP or the CZ, I will never get rid of mine.

[5RWill]

Did some digging and like others said the frame on the compact 75 other than length is the same dimensions as the full. I can't say it was as comfortable as the high power but it was very comfortable, more so than any 1911 i've held and i enjoy those. Regarding the frame size i saw more people mentioning that they wear medium and small size gloves the cz 75 full size fit them adequately. I'm not too concerned. I mean yeah my hands are small, but i really am not worried about the trigger length on the DA pull. I only plan on shooting in SA. Whether i convert it or not.

The reason i don't have my sights set on the high power is cost, truth be told i prefer the aesthetics of the 75 for what'd i'd be doing. If i got a BHP i would want it nice and clean like yours above and it would probably never see the range that much.

My hand measured from base to tip of my middle finger is right at 7"

Think i'm going to wait on the shadow for 880$. Hopefully they'll come back in stock.

[Knightsofnee]

I think the OP should re-phrase his question to "Which should I buy FIRST?"

[5RWill]

Lol the SP01 is coming first and foremost. Then i would probably look to the TS in the future, distant future though because it's going to require some work to slim down. Then maybe a Pro Tek 2-M from the custom shop for carry Though yeah wouldn't mind a BHP either. I just got a new job so...needless to say i will have a good bit of spending money made this year. I more than likely add some handguns to my collection and finish my two rifles i set out on last summer.

I want the whole set. Hell if they would just make a standard SP01 40 with a safety i would jump on it, i've shot limited with my M&P40 don't necessarily need a huge 5.4" gun to shoot with like the TS though it would be nice. Whatever i go i want to stick with the same controls. Safeties all around, no decocker. Thought i might like the decocker since i'm used to not having a safety with my striker fired guns but i like shooting in single action and that would be pretty dangerous IMO.

[railroader]

If you can handle a 75SA(same frame as standard shadow) and a Sp-01 before you decide. It doesn't look like it but the grip on the two guns feels different. The non rail shadows feel better and balance better than the sp-01 for me. Now you could be different.

[5RWill]

Here is a picture of my hands on our glock 21 I know the 75 isn't that large. Was actually trying to get to a gun store today but most of them were closed.